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The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
Brickjectivity said:
There is a lot of dirt on Moses (and on many of the prophets). Here is an example of Moses making a mistake: He killed a man in Egypt. So right from the start we know that Moses was a murderer. How can a murderer write anything pure?
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Yes. He killed someone to save Joshua's life. That is a good thing.

H
Brickjectivity said:
ere is an example of Moses making a mistake with his miraculous staff which was one of the signs given: He became angry and instead of speaking to the rock to produce water he disobeyed and attacked it with the staff. The sign given to him to prove he was a prophet he abused it to disobey, merely because he was angry. It proves that he never overcame his anger problem. Perhaps that is why he killed an Egyptian man -- in anger.
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Yes. He was human. And humans make mistakes.

However, you try and deal with the pressure of several million people with no water, thirsty, and wanting to kill you as a result. He was under tremendous pressure.

That said he still did sin and was punished for it.

Brickjectivity said:
He personally broke with his own hands the first set of 10 stone commandments. Probably he did this in anger, too. Moses was not a man who made no mistakes, but a man who made mistakes.
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So? What was wrong with breaking them?

Brickjectivity said:
He also was ruling the Israelites poorly until his father in law came to visit and pointed out how to make improvements. He ruled them poorly, yet he was responsible for many of the written decisions in the Tanach. Shall we then conclude that everything he wrote was perfect? It is not right to attribute perfection of writing to such an imperfect man. Maybe if he had more self control I could accept that.
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He didn't rule them poorly. Jethro suggested rather than everyone go to him for decisions he delegate responsibility.

Wrong, the Torah was perfect. The laws were dictated by G-D, and G-D is perfect.



Brickjectivity said:
I'm merely showing that prophets in the Tanach made mistakes. I don't know what all of their mistakes were, but they definitely made mistakes. So if they made mistakes then there is no reason to presume that those mistakes were limited in scope.
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No you aren't. The Torah came from G-D. The laws were dictated by him. They are perfect.

Yes Moses made some mistakes from the time he was born until his death. He was human.



Brickjectivity said:
The stories in Judges even suggest that one prophet deceived another and kept him from doing his duty. So how can anyone insist that everything the prophets wrote was correct? It does not follow. You can choose to believe that everything they wrote was correct, but I don't see any reason to assume that.
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Because the prophecies came from G-D. That doesn't mean that their individual life was perfect.

Moses was the greatest of all the prophets. He was certainly far greater than holier than jesus, who wasn't a prophet. Yet, Moses was still human and made mistakes.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Brickjectivity said:
There is a lot of dirt on Moses (and on many of the prophets). Here is an example of Moses making a mistake: He killed a man in Egypt. So right from the start we know that Moses was a murderer. How can a murderer write anything pure?

Here is an example of Moses making a mistake with his miraculous staff which was one of the signs given: He became angry and instead of speaking to the rock to produce water he disobeyed and attacked it with the staff. The sign given to him to prove he was a prophet he abused it to disobey, merely because he was angry. It proves that he never overcame his anger problem. Perhaps that is why he killed an Egyptian man -- in anger.

He personally broke with his own hands the first set of 10 stone commandments. Probably he did this in anger, too. Moses was not a man who made no mistakes, but a man who made mistakes.

He also was ruling the Israelites poorly until his father in law came to visit and pointed out how to make improvements. He ruled them poorly, yet he was responsible for many of the written decisions in the Tanach. Shall we then conclude that everything he wrote was perfect? It is not right to attribute perfection of writing to such an imperfect man. Maybe if he had more self control I could accept that.

I'm merely showing that prophets in the Tanach made mistakes. I don't know what all of their mistakes were, but they definitely made mistakes. So if they made mistakes then there is no reason to presume that those mistakes were limited in scope.

The stories in Judges even suggest that one prophet deceived another and kept him from doing his duty. So how can anyone insist that everything the prophets wrote was correct? It does not follow. You can choose to believe that everything they wrote was correct, but I don't see any reason to assume that.
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Are you a Jew? If yes; of what denomination?
Sorry, for the personal questions.

Regards
 
RabbiO

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
CMike said:
Was I talking to you mr yente?
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For someone who has almost 3,000 posts you don't seem to understand how a forum thread works.

Then again, perhaps you do since you responded to a post of mine, on another thread, that was addressing a question from a forum member other than yourself and you had no apparent qualms in posting it. While that response of was ill mannered, disrespectful, pompous and arrogant, which is pretty good given that the response was less than ten words,nevertheless you are entitled to respond to any of my posts. It's called conversation, dialogue and sometimes even debate.

I asked you a simple question here. I wasn't calling you out, I was asking a question.

I have to assume that your comment above, was given because you cannot cite a source for your assertion that Moses saved Joshua from being killed by an Egyptian overseer and you find that uncomfortable given that the question came from, to your way of thinking, a left wing radical with a leftist agenda who is out to subvert the Torah and distort Judaism.

That is not my problem.

You seem intent in turning differences of opinion into personal attacks.

Grow up.
 
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Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Paarsurrey said:
Are you a Jew?
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No. I have read the NIV Bible and also the KJV, and I have also studied them and been a part of several Christian denominations.
CMike said:
So? What was wrong with breaking them?
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I don't know what was wrong with breaking them unless he did it in anger. I know that I would get into trouble if I broke them. If anybody else broke them they probably would have been punished. The thing that would be wrong is if he broke them in anger since he had an anger problem, though it might be a mild anger problem compared to most people who have anger problems.

CMike said:
He didn't rule them poorly. Jethro suggested rather than everyone go to him for decisions he delegate responsibility.

Wrong, the Torah was perfect. The laws were dictated by G-D, and G-D is perfect.
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Ok, but it shows that Moses could be deficient. He didn't think of that himself. Mainly in that post I pointed out that prophets were not perfect, and that this means they could make mistakes. You seem not to believe this would have affected their writing, but it affected their behaviour sometimes.

CMike said:
No you aren't. The Torah came from G-D. The laws were dictated by him. They are perfect. Yes Moses made some mistakes from the time he was born until his death. He was human.
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Moses could make mistakes, and he was the prime prophet in the series. Therefore the other prophets in the Tanach could also make mistakes, and therefore the importance of prophets is limited in scope. The opening post of the thread makes no sense.

Because the prophecies came from G-D. That doesn't mean that their individual life was perfect. Moses was the greatest of all the prophets. He was certainly far greater than holier than jesus, who wasn't a prophet. Yet, Moses was still human and made mistakes.
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Ok, well I don't claim to be more familiar with your prophets than you. What I pointed out was that prophets are human, and humans make mistakes. I see no reason to presume that they could write perfectly, and it is related to the subject we were talking about earlier. To begin with it makes no sense to try and use prophets to prove things, this thing or that thing. They aren't mathematical formulas.
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
The laws in the Torah were dictated from G-D so there were no mistakes, it's perfect.

Moses was human. He made mistakes.

The prophets were human as well.

That said, once again, the laws were dictated from G-D, so they are perfect.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
CMike said:
The laws in the Torah were dictated from G-D so there were no mistakes, it's perfect.

Moses was human. He made mistakes.

The prophets were human as well.

That said, once again, the laws were dictated from G-D, so they are perfect.
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Thanks for your reply.

Please tell us if there is any mistake committed by Moses in the following verses:

Deuteronomy - Chapter 31:9,24,26-29

Quote:
9. Then Moses wrote this Torah, and gave it to the priests, the descendants of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel.
24. And it was, when Moses finished writing the words of this Torah in a scroll, until their very completion,
26. "Take this Torah scroll and place it along side the ark of covenant of the Lord, your God, and it will be there as a witness.
27. For I know your rebellious spirit and your stubbornness. Even while I am alive with you today you are rebelling against the Lord, and surely after my death!
28. Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officers, and I will speak these words into their ears, and I will call upon the heaven and the earth as witnesses against them.
29. For I know that after my death, you will surely become corrupted, and deviate from the way which I had commanded you. Consequently, the evil will befall you at the end of days, because you did evil in the eyes of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger through the work of your hands.

Deuteronomy - Chapter 31 (Parshah Vayelech) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
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Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
CMike said:
Could you please just just say what you mean?
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It is very simple.

You mentioned:

Moses was human. He made mistakes.

I wanted to know if Moses made any mistake in the verses:

Deuteronomy - Chapter 31:9,24,26-29 quoted by me earlier from the Jewish Bible .

Not many verses; you may check them and tell one if Moses made any mistake in them.

If you cannot or don't want to; somebody else, a Jew or a Christian, may answer, please.

Regards
 
Avi1001

Avi1001

reform Jew humanist liberal feminist entrepreneur
CMike said:
Could you please just just say what you mean?

I don't like playing games.
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CMike, our Ahmadian friend Paar is saying that "scribes" like Moses were corrupt while "prophets" like Mohamnad were
perfect :D
 
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