The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

[Robert.Evans]

I think this verse is what you are looking for,

1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

What Paul was referring in this verse were the things the Israelites or the people did in the wilderness on how they sinned against God.

“Adding and interpolating” by “many writers” could cause contradictory extrapolation of the very word of God or the bible. That is the reason why there is only One author of the bible [O.T. and N.T.] and that is God Himself to avoid “adding and interpolating” by “many un-authorize writers”.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Note: “private interpretation” that could cause “adding and interpolating”

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Note: “by the will of man” or “many un-authorize writers”

IOW, “God spake” from Genesis to Revelation to the “holy men” and they were from Moses to John “as they were moved by the Holy Ghost”

I don't disagree with you that it is divinely given, but I don't see how this is a problem. It is the end result that is important. The interpolations are shown in the supposed contradictions, especially of the Old

 

[JM2C]

The interpolations are shown in the supposed contradictions, especially of the Old

“especially of the Old”? you mean the O.T.?

contradicting from what?

The N.T.?

 

[paarsurrey]

One explanation is that it was still dictated by G-D to Moses even about his own death. Another explanation is that Joshua completed it by having it dictatated to him by G-D.

Present Torah is neither dictated by G-d nor written by Moses:

Deuteronomy - Chapter 34:5-6
5. And Moses, the servant of the Lord, died there, in the land of Moab, by the mouth of the Lord.

6. And He buried him in the valley, in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Pe'or. And no person knows the place of his burial, ""unto this day"".

Deuteronomy - Chapter 34 (Parshah V'Zot HaBerachah) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

Please tell us what day is meant in the above verse:
"unto this day"

Regards

 

[CMike]

Hi Akivah. Those things are things of the Old Testament, but the Old Testament is over. Now we have Jesus Christ, who is God became ​​man. And He came to show us the true commandments of God.

The Law of God taught by Jesus Christ

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12)

Jesus teaches to a rich man, the precepts of the Law

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

It seems that you have mastered copy and paste Broken Record.

These are the commandments G-D gave the jews in the Torah. That's where G-D's true law is.

Also it says "do not murder", not "do not kill".

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

I would like to see the churchs's sell off their billions of dollars and give it to the poor. Maybe they should follow that "commandment from jesus".

It's obviously totally rediculous. Without rich people, there aren't the resources to build schools, give money to charities, help the needy, etc.

Sounds to me like jesus was a communist.

These are the commandments of the Gospel, which are very different to the commandments of the Old Testament, for all the commandments of the Gospel are merciful, but many commandments of the Old Testament commanded death sentences, wars and slavery. And those commandments weren't really God's Law.

Now some peace and love from the christian bible.

Luke:

27"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."

Matthew 10


The Sword of the Gospel
34"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35"For I came to SET A MAN AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND A DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND A DAUGHTER-IN-LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER-IN-LAW;…

“For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.”
—1 Thessalonians 2:14-16

 

[Akivah]

You have to see someone's face to say you have seen them?

Your spin doctoring and dodging isn't helping your case.

In the biblical text, G-d said that no one could see His face and survive. The Christian stories relay that many people saw jesus' face. But the stories don't say that those looking at his face died. Therefore, Jesus could not have been G-d.

 

[Akivah]

Hi Akivah. Those things are things of the Old Testament, but the Old Testament is over.

Yes, obviously you have different beliefs.

G-d tells us that His Laws are eternal. Thus there is no event that can occur that will cause His Laws to cease. Eternity never gets "over".

 

[CMike]

Present Torah is neither dictated by G-d nor written by Moses:

Deuteronomy - Chapter 34:5-6
5. And Moses, the servant of the Lord, died there, in the land of Moab, by the mouth of the Lord.

6. And He buried him in the valley, in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Pe'or. And no person knows the place of his burial, ""unto this day"".

Deuteronomy - Chapter 34 (Parshah V'Zot HaBerachah) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

Please tell us what day is meant in the above verse:
"unto this day"

Regards

Present Torah is the same as past Torah. It's from G-D, who dictated it to Moses.

No one knew where he was buried.

What's the issue?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Your spin doctoring and dodging isn't helping your case.

In the biblical text, G-d said that no one could see His face and survive. The Christian stories relay that many people saw jesus' face. But the stories don't say that those looking at his face died. Therefore, Jesus could not have been G-d.

I don't know what you mean by "spin doctoring", presumably something negative. The point was, that someone could be said to have been seen even without seeing their face. That stands. As for Yahshuah being God, I don't think I said he was. He did after all, 'empty himself'. But I would say, Have you never heard of the 'Spirit of God'? And, as other Jews have said on this subject, 'Everything is God'; so in that sense he is; which means you have seen the face of God, and see it all the time.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't know what you mean by "spin doctoring", presumably something negative. The point was, that someone could be said to have been seen even without seeing their face. That stands. As for Yahshuah being God, I don't think I said he was. He did after all, 'empty himself'. But I would say, Have you never heard of the 'Spirit of God'? And, as other Jews have said on this subject, 'Everything is God'; so in that sense he is; which means you have seen the face of God, and see it all the time.

That isn't accurate. That isn't Scriptural. If people are saying that, it isn't a Biblical concept afaik.

 

[Muffled]

What don't you believe?

I don't believe that you rely on evidence.

 

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by CMike
That's easy. He will fulfill the messianic prohesies in Michah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37.



They are

• World peace
• All the jews coming to Israel
• All the jews staying in Israel
• He will be a descendent of David (lineage goes solely through the biological father)
• The temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever
• He will be a unified king of Israel

1) The "second coming" is purely a christian concept. It's not in jewish scritpure (Tanach). Therefore, it has nothing to do with these prophesies.

2) This list come from the messianic prohesies prophesized by the prophets. I listed the sources, you can go there and look them up.

Bottom line is jesus didn't fulfill them, he wasn't a jewish messiah.

If Christian concepts come from Christian scipture then it is scripture or if one says it is not then I can say Jewish scripture isn't scripture by the same measure but I believe I can say by the God I know personnally that both are scripture.

I believe this is wishful thinking.

World peace: I believe Jesus fulfills this in a spiritual sense through Christians who are all over this world. However Physical peace only comes with the physical Kingdom of God.

More later.

 

[metis]

I don't believe that you rely on evidence.

Well, since I'm a scientist, I beg to differ. The evidence is overwhelming, but you have the full constitutional right to ignore it.

 

[CMike]

If Christian concepts come from Christian scipture then it is scripture or if one says it is not then I can say Jewish scripture isn't scripture by the same measure but I believe I can say by the God I know personnally that both are scripture.

I believe this is wishful thinking.

World peace: I believe Jesus fulfills this in a spiritual sense through Christians who are all over this world. However Physical peace only comes with the physical Kingdom of God.

More later.

Great. I think if christians don't consider the Torah jewish scripture then they should stop distorting it, and stick to their own scripture.

You can believe whatever you want to try and make your square peg fit into the round hole, however, the passage is talking about "world peace", which hasn't occurred.

In fact jewish history was extremely violent during jesus.

 

[paarsurrey]

Deuteronomy - Chapter 34:5-6
5. And Moses, the servant of the Lord, died there, in the land of Moab, by the mouth of the Lord.

6. And He buried him in the valley, in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Pe'or. And no person knows the place of his burial, ""unto this day"".

Deuteronomy - Chapter 34 (Parshah V'Zot HaBerachah) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

Please tell us what day is meant in the above verse:
"unto this day"

Present Torah is the same as past Torah. It's from G-D, who dictated it to Moses.

No one knew where he was buried.

What's the issue?

The verses quoted by me above inform clearly that these were written after the death and burial of Moses at some unspecified time, by some unknown scribes.

If you want to ignore it; you can do so out of your free will.

Regards

 

[Akivah]

The point was, that someone could be said to have been seen even without seeing their face. That stands....

But I would say, Have you never heard of the 'Spirit of God'? And, as other Jews have said on this subject, 'Everything is God'; so in that sense he is; which means you have seen the face of God, and see it all the time.

I never mentioned "being seen", that was your deflection.

G-d said whoever sees His face will die. Does your statement mean that G-d lied?

 

[Robert.Evans]

I never mentioned "being seen", that was your deflection.

G-d said whoever sees His face will die. Does your statement mean that G-d lied?

You said "In the biblical text, G-d said that no one could see His face and survive. The Christian stories relay that many people saw jesus' face. But the stories don't say that those looking at his face died. Therefore, Jesus could not have been G-d."

My point was that someone can be seen without seeing their face. What point you are making I have no idea. So what the "being seen" is about I don't know. You don't seem to want to honestly discuss this

 

[Desert Snake]

My point was that someone can be seen without seeing their face. What point you are making I have no idea. So what the "being seen" is about I don't know. You don't seem to want to honestly discuss this

I assume he means Jesus as God incarnate. However Scripturally we are told Jesus was the reflection of God through the Spirit, therefore part man. Hence no problem seeing Jesus.

 

[paarsurrey]

The prophets tell us that THE SCRIBES HAD CHANGED THE GOD'S LAW

Sure enough.

Moses prophesied to this effect and Isaiah and Jeremiah confirm and witness to its truthfulness.

Regards

 

[Akivah]

You said "In the biblical text, G-d said that no one could see His face and survive. The Christian stories relay that many people saw jesus' face. But the stories don't say that those looking at his face died. Therefore, Jesus could not have been G-d."

My point was that someone can be seen without seeing their face.

Are you saying that no person saw Jesus' face?

 

[Akivah]

I assume he means Jesus as God incarnate. However Scripturally we are told Jesus was the reflection of God through the Spirit, therefore part man. Hence no problem seeing Jesus.

That is my point. Since there was no problem seeing Jesus or his face, that proves that he wasn't G-d (cause seeing G-d's face would cause death for any person.)