The Relationship Between Faith and Reason.

[Ancient Soul]

Of course you are foolish.

ALL you've done so far is quote from an ancient mythology that is spiritually void. Because you are spiritually void and empty, and have nothing to add of yourself.

I am well versed in many TRUE spiritual matters and can freely debate such issues in MY OWN words. So you can stop with your insulting quotes since YOU have nothing to back any of it up.

I must thank you for those words. I will wear them as a badge of honor.

Care to apply (Gal. 6:1,2) and show me my error?

What is the true spiritual matters you speak about?

I'm curious.

Still nothing of substance from yourself?

If you have to ask:

"What is the true spiritual matters you speak about?"

Then that tells me your religion has left you spiritually clueless. Why is that?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Faith and reason are perfectly joinable. I don't think I've ever met a religious person who is religious for no reason other than 'faith'; most serious practitioners have considered the arguments, studied the text/s if they have one/some, and utilised their experiences of the world to back up their faith.

I've met them. However, I don't say that to take away from your point. The majority I've been heavily involved with have more reasons than 'faith', for sure.

 

[Nova2216]

Still nothing of substance from yourself?

If you have to ask:

"What is the true spiritual matters you speak about?"

Then that tells me your religion has left you spiritually clueless. Why is that?

You infer incorrectly.

 

[Ancient Soul]

You infer incorrectly.

So then what does your beliefs tell you are true spiritual matters?

 

[Nova2216]

So then what does your beliefs tell you are true spiritual matters?

You know what I believe and obey (The Bible / NT Law).

What were you speaking about when you mentioned true spiritual matters?

I am truly curious.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Still nothing of substance from yourself?

If you have to ask:

"What is the true spiritual matters you speak about?"

Then that tells me your religion has left you spiritually clueless. Why is that?

You infer incorrectly.

So then what does your beliefs tell you are true spiritual matters?

You know what I believe and obey (The Bible / NT Law).

What were you speaking about when you mentioned true spiritual matters?

I am truly curious.

Let's not skip ahead.

YOU claimed:

"You infer incorrectly."

To MY comment about your religion leaving you spiritually clueless.

So since you claim that is incorrect, then YOU tell me what are true spiritual matters are.

 

[Nova2216]

Let's not skip ahead.

YOU claimed:

"You infer incorrectly."

To MY comment about your religion leaving you spiritually clueless.

So since you claim that is incorrect, then YOU tell me what are true spiritual matters are.

If you know all about the bible (as you claim) you know already what I believe and obey.

Why would I need to explain what you claim you already know?

Do you mind telling me more about the truth you follow?


Thanks

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Once a person sinks themself into belief over facts it's only a degree to how much they cling on to either.

The more they believe the less notice they take of facts. For instance, it shocks me how many still call evolution a theory.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Maybe i misunderstand your OP but the reason for the faith based belief is in the teaching of each religion the faith in it arise when I study the texts, and start practicing it. Then the reason to continue get better and better, because I see the teaching come alive in front of me in my life.

So the reason for my faith is my personal experiences with it by practicing it daily.

It depends on what those lessons are. Teaching people to love each other, honor your parent, not covet others goods, don't steal, kill, etc are just good things for everyone to follow. They do not need a religion to enforce them.

Killing apostates, adulterers, slavery, stoning to death, abortion, subduing others, etc. If one follows to the letter only what Jesus said it's pretty good. The problem arises when all the other teachings arrive and then the evil creeps in. Plus some religions that actively tell their followers to make war on everyone who opposes them. Opposing can and has been made to mean followers of other religions.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Let's not skip ahead.

YOU claimed:

"You infer incorrectly."

To MY comment about your religion leaving you spiritually clueless.

So since you claim that is incorrect, then YOU tell me what are true spiritual matters are.

If you know all about the bible (as you claim) you know already what I believe and obey.

Why would I need to explain what you claim you already know?

Do you mind telling me more about the truth you follow?


Thanks

Nice try, but I'm use to all the games of avoidance.

But there are NO true spiritual matters detailed anywhere in the entire bible. So since you claim that you DO know all about them, tell me what you think they are.

 

[Nova2216]

Nice try, but I'm use to all the games of avoidance.

But there are NO true spiritual matters detailed anywhere in the entire bible. So since you claim that you DO know all about them, tell me what you think they are.

Nice try, but I'm use to all the games of avoidance.

But there are NO true spiritual matters detailed anywhere in the entire bible. So since you claim that you DO know all about them, tell me what you think they are.

Well now, seems I may not be the clueless one.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Nice try, but I'm use to all the games of avoidance.

But there are NO true spiritual matters detailed anywhere in the entire bible. So since you claim that you DO know all about them, tell me what you think they are.

Well now, seems I may not be the clueless one.

STILL with the avoidance games I see.

You could just admit that your religion teaches you nothing truly spiritual. It's already painfully obvious.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Once people use faith to combat reason or truth. They know they're on a slippery slope. But too far to get off.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Once people use faith to combat reason or truth. They know they're on a slippery slope. But too far to get off.

Well, I use reason and truth to combat reason and truth.

3. The definition of relativism
There is no general agreed upon definition of cognitive relativism. Here is how it has been described by a few major theorists:

• “Reason is whatever the norms of the local culture believe it to be”. (Hilary Putnam, Realism and Reason: Philosophical Papers, Volume 3 (Cambridge, 1983), p. 235.)
• “The choice between competing theories is arbitrary, since there is no such thing as objective truth.” (Karl Popper, The Open Society and its Enemies, Vol. II (London, 1963), p. 369f.)
• “There is no unique truth, no unique objective reality” (Ernest Gellner, Relativism and the Social Sciences (Cambridge, 1985), p. 84.)
• “There is no substantive overarching framework in which radically different and alternative schemes are commensurable” (Richard Bernstein, Beyond Objectivism and Relativism (Philadelphia, 1985), pp. 11-12.)
• “There is nothing to be said about either truth or rationality apart from descriptions of the familiar procedures of justification which a given society—ours—uses in one area of enquiry” (Richard Rorty, Objectivity, Relativism and Truth: Philosophical Papers, Volume 1 (Cambridge, 1991), p. 23.)

...
Cognitive relativism consists of two claims:
(1) The truth-value of any statement is always relative to some particular standpoint;
(2) No standpoint is metaphysically privileged over all others.
...
Cognitive Relativism | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Trying to convince some Theists that their bible or god is wrong is a pointless task. They will wiggle and avoid anything that wavers from their belief.

Such as evolution. Some will stick to 6 days and claim a day means a billion years. Or that evolution did it and god created evolution or a part of it. Not a very clever god to take so long or do so little, but they cling to a belief.

Then bible stories that are clearly fiction.

Messengers from god is another one. With no proof of how a message is delivered.

 

[Nova2216]

STILL with the avoidance games I see.

You could just admit that your religion teaches you nothing truly spiritual. It's already painfully obvious.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Lu 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


The kingdom is not literal but rather spiritual.


Still seems I am not the clueless one.


Thanks

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Lu 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


The kingdom is not literal but rather spiritual.


Still seems I am not the clueless one.


Thanks

If I were setting up a con, those are the words I would use.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Trying to convince some Theists that their bible or god is wrong is a pointless task. They will wiggle and avoid anything that wavers from their belief.

Such as evolution. Some will stick to 6 days and claim a day means a billion years. Or that evolution did it and god created evolution or a part of it. Not a very clever god to take so long or do so little, but they cling to a belief.

Then bible stories that are clearly fiction.

Messengers from god is another one. With no proof of how a message is delivered.

Come on, every Christian knows their "god" delivers messages thru talking bushes, or sometimes donkeys, or at other times thru crazy cult leader wannabes.

 

[Ancient Soul]

STILL with the avoidance games I see.

You could just admit that your religion teaches you nothing truly spiritual. It's already painfully obvious.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Lu 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


The kingdom is not literal but rather spiritual.


Still seems I am not the clueless one.


Thanks

Is THAT the best you can do?

Sorry, but that proves nothing.

These skimpy quotes:

"My kingdom is not of this world"
"the kingdom of God is within you"

Teaches nobody nothing.

For is says NOTHING about those two comments being anything "spiritual", that's just something you made up. One could just as well claim it means his "kingdom" is in man's heart, it's unclear exactly what it really means. Proving my point.

It describes nothing in any detail so his followers would even know WHAT his "kingdom" really is exactly. Or if it's "within" "you", then where, or again, what is this "kingdom" exactly? The bible doesn't give anyone a clear description.

So I will never believe that the bible came from any "god" because it contains nothing truly spiritual at all.

Wanna try again?