The religion of the original Israel seems to have gotten lost?

[YoursTrue]

I will ask for understanding.

Saint Paul was originally called "Pig's eye", because the first European to settle here , had an eye patch, beneath it, an eye resembling the eye of a pig.
View attachment 93606View attachment 93607
Locals called the area “Pig's Eye Landing” based on Parrant's popular tavern. His “Pig's Eye Tavern” flourished, but in 1840 he was evicted by soldiers from nearby Fort Snelling. In 1849, the Minnesota Territory was formalized and shortly thereafter, the areas known as “Pig's Eye Landing” was renamed to Saint Paul.

A French priest became very influential in the region, after the soldiers evicted him, and asked for it to be named after Apostle Paul.

Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe King David has asked Uriah for forgiveness. I don't think the God of David has remorse for what he did.

If so, I forgive him, but think something has to change, including him, and there should be others who exercise more control of his omnipotent house, powers, grace, and some new universal laws of altruism and justice that Yahweh binds himself by oath to become laws that even he is not capable of breaking, even in a fit of rage when he changes his mind.

Something like that would show true remorse, if he was taking steps to make sure it doesn't keep happening.

It all started with Adam and Eve.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe King David has asked Uriah for forgiveness. I don't think the God of David has remorse for what he did.

If so, I forgive him, but think something has to change, including him, and there should be others who exercise more control of his omnipotent house, powers, grace, and some new universal laws of altruism and justice that Yahweh binds himself by oath to become laws that even he is not capable of breaking, even in a fit of rage when he changes his mind.

Something like that would show true remorse, if he was taking steps to make sure it doesn't keep happening.

Later...

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm pointing out why there are errors written in a book, that does say God essentially killed everyone but Enoch and Elijah.

I have no problems with the points you were making. This is an open forum where we can all express our views. My response was solely to your inflammatory language, which tends to bury any real debate.

I think I was a little to harsh in my initial response. I do understand that these kinds of things are harder to learn for some than for others. I've spent my lifetime learning the long way around many social skills that are obvious to most people, but not always obvious to those of us on the spectrum. And I'm still learning!

 

[Spiderman]

I have no problems with the points you were making. This is an open forum where we can all express our views. My response was solely to your inflammatory language, which tends to bury an real debate.

I think I was a little to harsh in my initial response. I do understand that these kinds of things are harder to learn for some than for others. I've spent my lifetime learning the long way around many social skills that are obvious to most people, but not always obvious to those of us on the spectrum. And I'm still learning!

So, could you please describe what inflammatory language is, ? and why it destroys a debate if I can show everyone in scripture where I'm not speaking falsehood.

If so, correct me.

Isaiah 45 "I create evil, I the Lord do these things...I create the darkness...I will share with you the secrets of the darkness...I create disaster, I the Lord do these things".

And letting demons tempt and control us. Killing people for sins they didn't commit by the millions. Killing children for not having the blood of a virgin lamb smeared on their doorposts ".

I believe in a loving creator, a just rational merciful creator. I feel those are direct attacks on the goodness of God that makes God worthy of blessing, adoration, praise, worship.

Can you at least see that I say these things out of compassion, and why I say it is obvious, the original role of Israel was "contender with God", defeating Esau's God, with the help of the God of Jacob.

And sharing why I feel an imposter has inspired some of the scriptures.

I feel the bible is destroying people's faith. It is fuel for atheism and used for antisemitism and the Holocaust. The way Yahweh treated Israel was extremely abusive and unhealthy. How should I reword that when I see such crimes?

And it is fuel for secularism. And faith is very important . I hope people will see it comes from pain and trauma, a sensitivity for those in agony, begging for death, committing suicide each day, that I write my grievances, and grief can make people mentally and imprudent in their speech, or create monsters.

But it is out of compassion that I am hurt when I see what God has done to humanity, blaming us, blaming Adam and Eve, blaming Jews for the death of Christ when it was the plan of his father

So, he should be thanking the high priest Caiaphas, and the Romans , for making the crucifixion possible. The sacrificial lamb prefigured him. So, if all the Jews accepted him, it would have destroyed his father's plan for him to wear a crown of thorns and die naked, nailed to a cross , shouting "father, why have you forsaken (abandoned me)."

Why didn't him and his father explain, that those who made the crucifixion happen, were doing him and the world, the biggest favor, by Christian theology. The blood of the lamb atones and saves. Without crucifixion, no resurrection.

Yahweh didn't want majority of Jews to accept him as Messiah. It was part of his plan, and so, they should not be blamed, because still today they receive insults like "Christ killer", when they didn't have anything to do with it

And the father of Jesus was the first christ killer, desiring and planning who would do the dirty work to get his son crowned with thorns + crucifixion (according to Christian theology).

I feel like God is constantly finding ways to justify the persecution and victimization of his "chosen people"... descendants of Jacob, and everyone almost.... He is bitter that Jacob stole the blessing, fought with him, won, and wouldn't let go when God asked him to, responding "no, I will not let you go, not until you bless you (stealing another blessing essentially. Telling that God "my will comes first, yours second ")

Esau and Jacob had different God's , different kingdoms, different religion. And the God of Esau was who he fought that day, (I believe), and who inspired much of the scriptures. I prayed to Jacob, and he enlightened me about why God treats his people with such cruelty. Imho.

What ever the case, the truth will be known, the truth shall set us free.

 

[Spiderman]

I have no problems with the points you were making. This is an open forum where we can all express our views. My response was solely to your inflammatory language, which tends to bury an real debate.

I think I was a little to harsh in my initial response. I do understand that these kinds of things are harder to learn for some than for others. I've spent my lifetime learning the long way around many social skills that are obvious to most people, but not always obvious to those of us on the spectrum. And I'm still learning!

So, could you please describe what inflammatory language is, ? and why it destroys a debate if I can show everyone in scripture where I'm not speaking falsehood.

If so, correct me.

Isaiah 45 "I create evil, I the Lord do these things...I create the darkness...I will share with you the secrets of the darkness...I create disaster, I the Lord do these things".

And letting demons tempt and control us. Killing people for sins they didn't commit by the millions. Killing children for not having the blood of a virgin lamb smeared on their doorposts ".

I believe in a loving creator, a just rational merciful creator. I feel those are direct attacks on the goodness of God that makes God worthy of blessing, adoration, praise, worship.

Can you at least see that I say these things out of compassion, and why I say it is obvious, the original role of Israel was "contender with God", defeating Esau's God, with the help of the God of Jacob.

And sharing why I feel an imposter has inspired some of the scriptures.

I feel the bible is destroying people's faith. It is fuel for atheism and used for antisemitism and the Holocaust. The way Yahweh treated Israel was extremely abusive and unhealthy. How should I reword that when I see such crimes?

And it is fuel for secularism. And faith is very important . I hope people will see it comes from pain and trauma, a sensitivity for those in agony, begging for death, committing suicide each day, that I write my grievances, and grief can make people mentally and imprudent in their speech, or create monsters.

But it is out of compassion that I am hurt when I see what God has done to humanity, blaming us, blaming Adam and Eve, blaming Jews for the death of Christ when it was the plan of his father

So, he should be thanking the high priest Caiaphas, and the Romans , for making the crucifixion possible. The sacrificial lamb prefigured him. So, if all the Jews accepted him, it would have destroyed his father's plan for him to wear a crown of thorns and die naked, nailed to a cross , shouting "father, why have you forsaken (abandoned me)."

Why didn't him and his father explain, that those who made the crucifixion happen, were doing him and the world, the biggest favor, by Christian theology. The blood of the lamb atones and saves. Without crucifixion, no resurrection.

Yahweh didn't want majority of Jews to accept him as Messiah. It was part of his plan, and so, they should not be blamed, because still today they receive insults like "Christ killer", when they didn't have anything to do with it

And the father of Jesus was the first christ killer, desiring and planning who would do the dirty work to get his son crowned with thorns + crucifixion (according to Christian theology).

I feel like God is constantly finding ways to justify the persecution and victimization of his "chosen people"... descendants of Jacob, and everyone almost.... He is bitter that Jacob stole the blessing, fought with him, won, and wouldn't let go when God asked him to, responding "no, I will not let you go, not until you bless me (stealing another blessing essentially. Telling whatever God that was "my will comes first, yours second ")

Esau and Jacob had different God's , different kingdoms, different religion. And the God of Esau was who he fought that day, (I believe), and who inspired much of the scriptures. I prayed to Jacob, and he enlightened me about why God treats his people with such cruelty. Imho.

What ever the case, the truth will be known, the truth shall set us free.

 

[YoursTrue]

So, could you please describe what inflammatory language is, ? and why it destroys a debate if I can show everyone in scripture where I'm not speaking falsehood.

If so, correct me.

Isaiah 45 "I create evil, I the Lord do these things...I create the darkness...I will share with you the secrets of the darkness...I create disaster, I the Lord do these things".

And letting demons tempt and control us. Killing people for sins they didn't commit by the millions. Killing children for not having the blood of a virgin lamb smeared on their doorposts ".

I believe in a loving creator, a just rational merciful creator. I feel those are direct attacks on the goodness of God that makes God worthy of blessing, adoration, praise, worship.

Can you at least see that I say these things out of compassion, and why I say it is obvious, the original role of Israel was "contender with God", defeating Esau's God, with the help of the God of Jacob.

And sharing why I feel an imposter has inspired some of the scriptures.

I feel the bible is destroying people's faith. It is fuel for atheism and used for antisemitism and the Holocaust. The way Yahweh treated Israel was extremely abusive and unhealthy. How should I reword that when I see such crimes?

And it is fuel for secularism. And faith is very important . I hope people will see it comes from pain and trauma, a sensitivity for those in agony, begging for death, committing suicide each day, that I write my grievances, and grief can make people mentally and imprudent in their speech, or create monsters.

But it is out of compassion that I am hurt when I see what God has done to humanity, blaming us, blaming Adam and Eve, blaming Jews for the death of Christ when it was the plan of his father

So, he should be thanking the high priest Caiaphas, and the Romans , for making the crucifixion possible. The sacrificial lamb prefigured him. So, if all the Jews accepted him, it would have destroyed his father's plan for him to wear a crown of thorns and die naked, nailed to a cross , shouting "father, why have you forsaken (abandoned me)."

Why didn't him and his father explain, that those who made the crucifixion happen, were doing him and the world, the biggest favor, by Christian theology. The blood of the lamb atones and saves. Without crucifixion, no resurrection.

Yahweh didn't want majority of Jews to accept him as Messiah. It was part of his plan, and so, they should not be blamed, because still today they receive insults like "Christ killer", when they didn't have anything to do with it

And the father of Jesus was the first christ killer, desiring and planning who would do the dirty work to get his son crowned with thorns + crucifixion (according to Christian theology).

I feel like God is constantly finding ways to justify the persecution and victimization of his "chosen people"... descendants of Jacob, and everyone almost.... He is bitter that Jacob stole the blessing, fought with him, won, and wouldn't let go when God asked him to, responding "no, I will not let you go, not until you bless you (stealing another blessing essentially. Telling that God "my will comes first, yours second ")

Esau and Jacob had different God's , different kingdoms, different religion. And the God of Esau was who he fought that day, (I believe), and who inspired much of the scriptures. I prayed to Jacob, and he enlightened me about why God treats his people with such cruelty. Imho.

What ever the case, the truth will be known, the truth shall set us free.

OK, I said later, but this intrigued me. Yes, it is written that God said he created evil. But how can we take this? Let's see -- when God told Adam and Eve to stay away from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it was because God is the decision-maker of what is good and what is evil. For instance, God did not create Nazis, but he did allow horrible things to happen that were considered by many to be evil. I hope you understand. He told Adam and Eve not to decide for themselves what is good or bad (evil).

 

[1213]

No. You are saying, and the bible is saying, "Adam and Eve ate forbidden fruit. And we should all feel like we deserve to suffer for their sins".

Please tell where in the Bible that is said?

Isaiah 45 says "I create evil, I the lord do these things". SCripture says "God repented of the evil he planned on doing to Israel".

And what is darkness/evil, nothing. Evil is like emptiness, it is the lack of good. And God creates it by allowing people to reject Him. Do you think god should not allow people to reject Him?

I'm saying we should look beyond such a book, and beyond such a God that the book says clearly is the serial killer with the highest kill count, the war criminal guilty of the worst war crimes , and the terrorist responsible for the most terrorism

God is the one with highest life count. He has given life also for those who hate Him. I think that makes Him the greatest. If people are evil, why should God give them eternal life?

but he says "I am God, so it is not crime, it is perfect justice. Worship me or be afflicted with misfortune, or burn in hell. ... And , blessed are they who are humble and forgiving."

Where does God say, worship me or burn in hell?

 

[YoursTrue]

1. El ("God")
2. Eloah ("God")
3. Elohim ("Gods")
4. Shaddai ("Almighty")
5. Ehyeh ("I am")
6. Tzevaot ("[of] Hosts")
7. YHWH

Not saying you know (and neither do I), but asking a question about translations, I wonder if there is a translation in Arabic that Jews may use if their basic language is Arabic. Maybe I'll put up a new thread/question...

 

[Spiderman]

OK, I said later, but this intrigued me. Yes, it is written that God said he created evil. But how can we take this? Let's see -- when God told Adam and Eve to stay away from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, it was because God is the decision-maker of what is good and what is evil. For instance, God did not create Nazis, but he did allow horrible things to happen that were considered by many to be evil. I hope you understand. He told Adam and Eve not to decide for themselves what is good or bad (evil).

I believe God has victimized humanity with free will, because so many people are too damaged to know how to use it appropriately, they don't know how to interpret the Bible, they are drafted and brainwashed by radical Islamic or terrorist, or bigoted Christian groups, and they really don't have free will.
If they believe they are dying as martyrs for God, and killing infidels to bring justice , keep the infidel population down, killing homosexuals like the Bible says to do, or a terrorist attack will make worldly people pray, turn them away from their attachment to the world, and remind them how fragile and fleeting life is, remind them that they have no hope but to pray . (those who witness or are effected by a terrorist attack.

Those people, since they believe they are doing the will of God, really don't have free will, because they cannot know what choices God wants them to make, God refuses to tell them, so, their ability to live a good life is robbed from them.

Yes, because God refuses to show up, tell them "I am your friend. Please, I love you. It makes you sad when you commit terrorism in my name. It makes me happy when you forgive, when you are a peacemaker. Call on me for help at any time, and I will help you know my will".

God leaves people blind, confused, and moves demons all over the world to chronically confuse, tempt, destroy marriages, create crimes, leave people traumatized, petrified, and in wheelchairs. By leaving us a bunch of divided christian churches constantly arguing with each other, and coming to no consensus on what is proper interpretation of the Bible...

.we are left with a God who created monsters, devils, to deceive most of humanity, control much of the world, and it isn't helping people, it destroys most lives in some way, it stirrs up atheism, makes people loose hope , does us no good.
He makes decisions that he knows will only destroy, divide, terrorize, confuse, and torture people, and lead people to be tossed into the lake of Fire. that is the behavior of Someone who clearly hates us, has no remorse or respect.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe God has victimized humanity with free will, because so many people are too damaged to know how to use it appropriately, they don't know how to interpret the Bible, they are drafted and brainwashed by radical Islamic or terrorist, or bigoted Christian groups, and they really don't have free will.
If they believe they are dying as martyrs for God, and killing infidels to bring justice , keep the infidel population down, killing homosexuals like the Bible says to do, or a terrorist attack will make worldly people pray, turn them away from their attachment to the world, and remind them how fragile and fleeting life is, remind them that they have no hope but to pray . (those who witness or are effected by a terrorist attack.

Those people, since they believe they are doing the will of God, really don't have free will, because they cannot know what choices God wants them to make, God refuses to tell them, so, their ability to live a good life is robbed from them.

Yes, because God refuses to show up, tell them "I am your friend. Please, I love you. It makes you sad when you commit terrorism in my name. It makes me happy when you forgive, when you are a peacemaker. Call on me for help at any time, and I will help you know my will".

God leaves people blind, confused, and moves demons all over the world to chronically confuse, tempt, destroy marriages, create crimes, leave people traumatized, petrified, and in wheelchairs. By leaving us a bunch of divided christian churches constantly arguing with each other, and coming to no consensus on what is proper interpretation of the Bible...

.we are left with a God who created monsters, devils, to deceive most of humanity, control much of the world, and it isn't helping people, it destroys most lives in some way, it stirrs up atheism, makes people loose hope , does us no good.
He makes decisions that he knows will only destroy, divide, terrorize, confuse, and torture people, and lead people to be tossed into the lake of Fire. that is the behavior of Someone who clearly hates us, has no remorse or respect.

Now, now, remember as your analyst, I only take one or two points at a time. Sooo -- considering free will -- I'll go way back to Adam & Eve and their two sons, Cain and Abel. (Remember? what happened?) Also remember that Adam & Eve had "free will." God did not stop them from making their minds up as to what they would do.

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe God has victimized humanity with free will, because so many people are too damaged to know how to use it appropriately, they don't know how to interpret the Bible, they are drafted and brainwashed by radical Islamic or terrorist, or bigoted Christian groups, and they really don't have free will.
If they believe they are dying as martyrs for God, and killing infidels to bring justice , keep the infidel population down, killing homosexuals like the Bible says to do, or a terrorist attack will make worldly people pray, turn them away from their attachment to the world, and remind them how fragile and fleeting life is, remind them that they have no hope but to pray . (those who witness or are effected by a terrorist attack.

Those people, since they believe they are doing the will of God, really don't have free will, because they cannot know what choices God wants them to make, God refuses to tell them, so, their ability to live a good life is robbed from them.

Yes, because God refuses to show up, tell them "I am your friend. Please, I love you. It makes you sad when you commit terrorism in my name. It makes me happy when you forgive, when you are a peacemaker. Call on me for help at any time, and I will help you know my will".

God leaves people blind, confused, and moves demons all over the world to chronically confuse, tempt, destroy marriages, create crimes, leave people traumatized, petrified, and in wheelchairs. By leaving us a bunch of divided christian churches constantly arguing with each other, and coming to no consensus on what is proper interpretation of the Bible...

.we are left with a God who created monsters, devils, to deceive most of humanity, control much of the world, and it isn't helping people, it destroys most lives in some way, it stirrs up atheism, makes people loose hope , does us no good.
He makes decisions that he knows will only destroy, divide, terrorize, confuse, and torture people, and lead people to be tossed into the lake of Fire. that is the behavior of Someone who clearly hates us, has no remorse or respect

Hi, Spiderman. OK, I take some of my last comment back. There is a reason why God has put us in this situation. To understand the reason requires faith and trust. The reason is, as I understand it and recognize it, to demonstrate to the angels that the Devil was (is) wrong. This horror story as I see it on the earth will not last forever. God by means of his Son will put an end to it. Thank God for that. Like it or not, angels are more powerful than we are. We are humans. Now how much do I like my life, would I rather be more than what I am? There are constraints in every area of life. Yet to consider life without end, with all the "good things," is a wonderful prospect.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So, could you please describe what inflammatory language is, ? and why it destroys a debate if I can show everyone in scripture where I'm not speaking falsehood.

I really enjoyed this post!

inflammatory language is when words are designed to rouse up heated emotions. Trolls use inflammatory language all the time, but sometimes very good people will do the same, not really realizing what they are doing. Furthermore, even the best of us sometimes lose our temper. Examples would be like:

• "They're spreading dangerous heresies."
• "That religion is Satanic."
• "You are involved in a cult that preys on vulnerable people."
• "Those who don't follow our religion are destined for damnation."
• "You will spend eternity in hell."
• "God is an evil mass murderer."

The inflammatory words in those examples are "heresies," "Satanic," "cult," "damnation," "hell," and the words "evil mass murderer" applied to God. Can you feel the emotional punch of those remarks?

The reason inflammatory remarks should be discouraged, is because they tend to make people hot and angry, and then they can't discuss the issues in a calm, thoughtful, rational way. They basically derail real discussion.

It is not a problem to present evidence to support your point, including scripture. But there is a difference between saying, "You are mistaken, here is what I think and why," and making a remark like, "Your idea is absolutely moronic."

 

[Spiderman]

I really enjoyed this post!

inflammatory language is when words are designed to rouse up heated emotions. Trolls use inflammatory language all the time, but sometimes very good people will do the same, not really realizing what they are doing. Furthermore, even the best of us sometimes lose our temper. Examples would be like:

• "They're spreading dangerous heresies."
• "That religion is Satanic."
• "You are involved in a cult that preys on vulnerable people."
• "Those who don't follow our religion are destined for damnation."
• "You will spend eternity in hell."
• "God is an evil mass murderer."

The inflammatory words in those examples are "heresies," "Satanic," "cult," "damnation," "hell," and the words "evil mass murderer" applied to God. Can you feel the emotional punch of those remarks?

The reason inflammatory remarks should be discouraged, is because they tend to make people hot and angry, and then they can't discuss the issues in a calm, thoughtful, rational way. They basically derail real discussion.

It is not a problem to present evidence to support your point, including scripture. But there is a difference between saying, "You are mistaken, here is what I think and why," and making a remark like, "Your idea is absolutely moronic."

Thank you! I guess, even if the text verifies the words I'm using. I need to have prudence in speaking it to people who are not seeing the same picture of God, who is very dear to their heart, with none of the qualities of a serial killer or terrorist.

Even if I can prove otherwise by what scripture says, it is not wise to if I want to have discussion with people. They will put me on ignore and I will lose friends.

Thank you!

 

[Spiderman]

Hi, Spiderman. OK, I take some of my last comment back. There is a reason why God has put us in this situation. To understand the reason requires faith and trust. The reason is, as I understand it and recognize it, to demonstrate to the angels that the Devil was (is) wrong. This horror story as I see it on the earth will not last forever. God by means of his Son will put an end to it. Thank God for that. Like it or not, angels are more powerful than we are. We are humans. Now how much do I like my life, would I rather be more than what I am? There are constraints in every area of life. Yet to consider life without end, with all the "good things," is a wonderful prospect.

God should not have made the Devil, and if people repeatedly ask for him to protect them from the Devil, isn't it his fault as a father, to refuse to do so and answer the prayer (after he promised "Ask and you shall receive")

You remember when corrupt bishops were caught moving around priests to different diocese or churches, who were caught in sex abuse scandals? How is God more righteous for moving devils around the world to tempt, torture, steal, kill, rape , confuse, and destroy?

 

[Spiderman]

Please tell where in the Bible that is said?

And what is darkness/evil, nothing. Evil is like emptiness, it is the lack of good. And God creates it by allowing people to reject Him. Do you think god should not allow people to reject Him?

God is the one with highest life count. He has given life also for those who hate Him. I think that makes Him the greatest. If people are evil, why should God give them eternal life?

Where does God say, worship me or burn in hell?

Adam and Eve are blamed for the fall of human kind. We suffer as a result, and you know it is in the Bible. Stop playing games.

He should not be giving life for those who hate him , if he is just going to torture them, and many of those who love him,.... some of the people he creates will be tortured by demons, brainwashed by cults and regimes in this life, and burn in hell for all eternity. God should have never created them. That is more cruel than anything I know of a human doing to another human.

If people are evil, God did not provide them the same graces he gave John the Baptist, Elijah, or the Virgin Mary, or Jesus. Or they would not have the wicked appetites, inclinations, and spiritual death + spiritual blindness that God forces most people to have. Even those who pray for the grace to see and be set free from vice, and disordered appetites.

God should not have made the Devil, and if people repeatedly ask for him to protect them from the Devil, isn't it his fault as a father, to refuse to do so and answer the prayer (after he promised "Ask and you shall receive")

You remember when corrupt bishops were caught moving around priests to different diocese or churches, who were caught in sex abuse scandals? How is God more righteous for moving devils around the world to tempt, torture, steal, kill, rape , confuse, and destroy, and just moves them around year after year to keep hurting people.

While people says he lives in a kingdom where streets are paved with gold. Billions praise and worship him. While people are starving to death , burning to death, being bombed for stuff they didn't do.

He could help them without taking away free will by just being a close friend, guide, telling them where to go, what to do, feeding them with food and drinks from heaven, like the miracle mana and miracle quail he fed Israelites in the wilderness. But he prefers they just starve in agony, children burn, get blown up!

 

[YoursTrue]

God should not have made the Devil, and if people repeatedly ask for him to protect them from the Devil, isn't it his fault as a father, to refuse to do so and answer the prayer (after he promised "Ask and you shall receive")

You remember when corrupt bishops were caught moving around priests to different diocese or churches, who were caught in sex abuse scandals? How is God more righteous for moving devils around the world to tempt, torture, steal, kill, rape , confuse, and destroy?

He didn't make the Devil. The spirit person made himself a resister and opponent of God. Free will. And evidently there were those spirit persons who lined up with the devil.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you! I guess, even if the text verifies the words I'm using. I need to have prudence in speaking it to people who are not seeing the same picture of God, who is very dear to their heart, with none of the qualities of a serial killer or terrorist.

Even if I can prove otherwise by what scripture says, it is not wise to if I want to have discussion with people. They will put me on ignore and I will lose friends.

Thank you!

Yes, I agree with you. For example, there is a story of Jesus calling the Pharisees snakes and vipers. If we followed that example in real life, it would be incredibly rude. Or like when Paul writes that those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus will be "punished with everlasting destruction." I'm sure if a Christian said that to you, you would find it very irritating, perhaps even downright offensive.

This does not mean I think people should not quote scripture. But they perhaps need to avoid those scriptures that are inflammatory for the sake of kindness and fostering good discussion.

Even if they believe those verses are "true." Like my mother taught me, sometimes there are things that are true that we don't need to say out loud. Imagine if a wife asked, "Does this dress make me look fat" and the husband replied, "OMG, yes! It makes your butt look huge!" LOL

And let's say you have an idea that you wish to discuss that you have gotten from reading scripture. For example, it is not uncommon for atheists to be highly offended by such things as God telling the Jews to kill every single man, woman, and child Amalekite, not to mention their animals. It would be one thing for them to reference the story, and then say, "I find this very hard to accept. It just strikes me as immoral. Certainly if the president of a country gave this command, we would call it genocide," and saying, "God ordered the genocide of the Amalekites -- He is a total monster!"

 

[Spiderman]

Yes, I agree with you. For example, there is a story of Jesus calling the Pharisees snakes and vipers. If we followed that example in real life, it would be incredibly rude. Or like when Paul writes that those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus will be "punished with everlasting destruction." I'm sure if a Christian said that to you, you would find it very irritating, perhaps even downright offensive.

This does not mean I think people should not quote scripture. But they perhaps need to avoid those scriptures that are inflammatory for the sake of kindness and fostering good discussion.

Even if they believe those verses are "true." Like my mother taught me, sometimes there are things that are true that we don't need to say out loud. Imagine if a wife asked, "Does this dress make me look fat" and the husband replied, "OMG, yes! It makes your butt look huge!" LOL

And let's say you have an idea that you wish to discuss that you have gotten from reading scripture. For example, it is not uncommon for atheists to be highly offended by such things as God telling the Jews to kill every single man, woman, and child Amalekite, not to mention their animals. It would be one thing for them to reference the story, and then say, "I find this very hard to accept. It just strikes me as immoral. Certainly if the president of a country gave this command, we would call it genocide," and saying, "God ordered the genocide of the Amalekites -- He is a total monster!"

Yes, you know the Scriptures, some of them, that bother me....or the "No one comes to the father but through me....unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man, you have no life in you"....

What I don't understand is, that is actually opposite of what you said about people not wanting discussion with me, or putting me on ignore for pointing out the scriptures about God, during my moment of passion and anger for justice.... As soon as I hear those scriptures, the first thing it does is foster debate , passionate remarks, long posts....rather than "ignore list".

OH yeah, what about Cyrus or Queen Esther. Queen Esther stopped genocide in Iran by breaking God's commandments, becoming Queen, and having control of the King's household, possessions, and military (she converted a king who was easily as antisimetic as adolf hitler because his genocide ordered was more thorough , offering no intentional chance of survivors, such as feed them at camps)....one woman did what hundreds of thousands of Israel's strongest men could not have done....

....and she did not go to the father through Jesus. or eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man. Jesus said such people have no life in them. So, quite a lot for a lifeless zombie...

She inspired Cyrus the Great, who in Isaiah 45 said "Cyrus , my Messiah, anointed one (Christ)". Born where Queen Esther ruled, influenced, inspired by her, he became a genuine Messiah, that Jews accepted as Messiah. He fulfilled prophecies of what the Messiah is supposed to do that Jesus did not fulfill.

He was a greater peacemaker than Jesus, and he loved his enemies more than Jesus. Those colonized by him were glad they got lost and colonized by him. He made it just as safe to be a Jew in Jerusalem as Babylon. And in all the Arab and Persian countries of his Empire, larger than any Empire before it, he ended antisemetism better than anyone I know of....got Jews to work with gentiles and Idolaters with love and harmony (better than anyone I know of), ended captivity of Jews who had been hated in many of the countries he owned and colonized....

.... built a very expensive temple for a religion that calls his city the most evil city, and says his Babylonian Deities and Inanna, Babylon the Great, Queen of Heaven ( and the morning star...scripture says those deities of the gentiles are Demons). Cyrus praised and worshipped those Deities, but scripture says he didn't know the true God. And he was a genuine messiah.

He created the temple, created peace, and did everything he could to end antisemetism after his death, following the mission of QUeen Esther. But it also proves that doing the opposite of what Jews are called to do, can bring reward if one breaks the law for the right reasons, the right way, like Cyrus and Esther.

So, I just proved that "no one comes to the father but by me " arguement from Christians. And when they preach no salvation without Jesus, it is the quickest way to draw me into a debate.

Especially if they are using flaming vocabulary. But you say it does the opposite. That is where I don't quite understand, because it is never my reaction.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, you know the Scriptures, some of them, that bother me....or the "No one comes to the father but through me....unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man, you have no life in you"....

I'm sure there are a great many.

What I don't understand is, that is actually opposite of what you said about people not wanting discussion with me, or putting me on ignore for pointing out the scriptures about God, during my moment of passion and anger for justice.... As soon as I hear those scriptures, the first thing it does is foster debate , passionate remarks, long posts....rather than "ignore list".

I must be doing a really horrible job at communicating my ideas. It has nothing to do with the ideas you have, even if they are in direct conflict with Christianity. Things become rude when they are inconsiderate of the feelings of others, such as using inflammatory language, or delivering the message at an inappropriate time or place. Unless they are oversensitive snowflakes (and these abound on the internet), Christians are perfectly open to mutually sharing religious ideas with their non-Christian friends.

If the only people that are condemning you are in forums and chatrooms, I'd take it all with a grain of salt. You have to "consider the source."

OH yeah, what about Cyrus or Queen Esther. Queen Esther stopped genocide in Iran by breaking God's commandments, becoming Queen, and having control of the King's household, possessions, and military

I'm not sure how becoming the Queen of Persia means she broke God's commandments. According to historians, the book of Esther was written during the Persian period. At that time, the Torah as we know it today didn't yet exist, and would not become common knowledge among the Jews until the time of the Maccabees. So if Esther, if she really existed at all, didn't separate her meat from her dairy, I don't think we can fault her for that.

one woman did what hundreds of thousands of Israel's strongest men could not have done....

Which is why she is a heroine of the Jewish people.

....and she did not go to the father through Jesus.

Because she was a Jew, not a Christian.

Isaiah 45 said "Cyrus , my Messiah, anointed one (Christ)".

There are many, many messiahs in Judaism. The Hebrew word Mashiach (messiah) simply means anointed, just as the Greek word Christos (Christ) does. High priests, prophets, and kings were anointed in Israel. David, for example, is considered a messiah. But there is only one "THE Messiah" who will usher in an idyllic era of worldwide peace, and obviously that hasn't happened yet.

He created the temple,

Well, at least he rebuilt it

So, I just proved that "no one comes to the father but by me " arguement from Christians.

They are not going to be persuaded by these arguments, so don't hold your breath. I tend to believe that if an individual lacks the empathy needed to see the goodness in others or to have compassion on those who make mistakes, they simply don't have the capacity to even see your arguments.

Especially if they are using flaming vocabulary. But you say it does the opposite. That is where I don't quite understand, because it is never my reaction.

Christians can use inflammatory language just as sure as non-Christians. You've probably had your blood boil by some of the things they have said that condemn you rather than listen to you.

About it never being your reaction... It is difficult for me to remember which of your posts began our lovely talk. But didn't you say something to the effect that God couldn't be a serial killer or terrorist, which implies that the Christian God is?

I look forward to your response. I'm very much enjoying our conversation.