The religion of the original Israel seems to have gotten lost?

[Spiderman]

None of this is important but the bottom in bold, but I wasn't talking about Queen esther eating the forbidden pork . It had to do with her having sex with an unbeliever, a non Isralite, sex outside of marriage (Fornication).


She also changed her name to Esther, an alternative name for Ishtar, Babylonian Queen of Heaven and sexuality.

But before Esther, there was her predecessor, Queen Vashti, and understanding her story is crucial to understanding the extreme subjugation of Biblical women. During a royal banquet, the inebriated King Ahasuerus summoned Queen Vashti to undress before him and his seven eunuchs. She refused, and the King met her defiance with rage, “for this deed of the queen will be made known to all women, causing them to look with contempt on her husbands”(Esther 1:17). Vashti’s banishment set an example for women who challenged their husband’s authority. It also left a space in the Royal court that needed to be filled by a new Queen, and so the king’s servants declared, “Let beautiful young virgins be sought out for the king” (Esther 2:3).

she sort of sold herself at her uncle mordecai's request to the the King’s Harem, or the “house of women” and held for twelve months before each taking turns spending the night with King Ahasuerus. Scripture will not reveal the explicit details of these sexual interactions between the most powerful man in Persia and young, powerless women.

The emotions and thoughts of these unnamed women can only be realized through the imagination of a sympathetic reader. We read of King Ashperus’s anger which “burned within him” when Vashti refused to undress but are left to assume Esther’s fear and pain when she “arrived in the evening and left in the morning” (Esther 2:14). From this brief sexual encounter, the King realized that he “was attracted to Esther more than to any of the other women, and she won his favor and approval more than any of the other virgins” (Esther 2:18)

Eventually becoming Queen. But , sleeping with unbelievers, stripping down nude to wear nothing but a crown, for political power , then killing a bunch of people , was frowned upon! Forbidden behavior as a general rule by God, no?

 

[Spiderman]

I'm sure there are a great many.

I must be doing a really horrible job at communicating my ideas. It has nothing to do with the ideas you have, even if they are in direct conflict with Christianity. Things become rude when they are inconsiderate of the feelings of others, such as using inflammatory language, or delivering the message at an inappropriate time or place. Unless they are oversensitive snowflakes (and these abound on the internet), Christians are perfectly open to mutually sharing religious ideas with their non-Christian friends.

If the only people that are condemning you are in forums and chatrooms, I'd take it all with a grain of salt. You have to "consider the source."

I'm not sure how becoming the Queen of Persia means she broke God's commandments. According to historians, the book of Esther was written during the Persian period. At that time, the Torah as we know it today didn't yet exist, and would not become common knowledge among the Jews until the time of the Maccabees. So if Esther, if she really existed at all, didn't separate her meat from her dairy, I don't think we can fault her for that.

Which is why she is a heroine of the Jewish people.

Because she was a Jew, not a Christian.

There are many, many messiahs in Judaism. The Hebrew word Mashiach (messiah) simply means anointed, just as the Greek word Christos (Christ) does. High priests, prophets, and kings were anointed in Israel. David, for example, is considered a messiah. But there is only one "THE Messiah" who will usher in an idyllic era of worldwide peace, and obviously that hasn't happened yet.

Well, at least he rebuilt it

They are not going to be persuaded by these arguments, so don't hold your breath. I tend to believe that if an individual lacks the empathy needed to see the goodness in others or to have compassion on those who make mistakes, they simply don't have the capacity to even see your arguments.

Christians can use inflammatory language just as sure as non-Christians. You've probably had your blood boil by some of the things they have said that condemn you rather than listen to you.

About it never being your reaction... It is difficult for me to remember which of your posts began our lovely talk. But didn't you say something to the effect that God couldn't be a serial killer or terrorist, which implies that the Christian God is?

I look forward to your response. I'm very much enjoying our conversation.

YEah, I was saying those things as an example of how I respond to Christians who quote "You cannot go to the father accept through me (Jesus)"

So, then I mention all those things. Especcially if they use very flammatory language, it makes me want to rant and rant large amounts of irrefutable evidence that they are wrong. Rather than have no discussion or ignore them.

And, I am aware that Jews believe in multiple Messiahs. Because the prophecies don't sound like something one person could do, as they contradict themselves.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm sure there are a great many.

I must be doing a really horrible job at communicating my ideas. It has nothing to do with the ideas you have, even if they are in direct conflict with Christianity. Things become rude when they are inconsiderate of the feelings of others, such as using inflammatory language, or delivering the message at an inappropriate time or place. Unless they are oversensitive snowflakes (and these abound on the internet), Christians are perfectly open to mutually sharing religious ideas with their non-Christian friends.

If the only people that are condemning you are in forums and chatrooms, I'd take it all with a grain of salt. You have to "consider the source."

I'm not sure how becoming the Queen of Persia means she broke God's commandments. According to historians, the book of Esther was written during the Persian period. At that time, the Torah as we know it today didn't yet exist, and would not become common knowledge among the Jews until the time of the Maccabees. So if Esther, if she really existed at all, didn't separate her meat from her dairy, I don't think we can fault her for that.

Which is why she is a heroine of the Jewish people.

Because she was a Jew, not a Christian.

There are many, many messiahs in Judaism. The Hebrew word Mashiach (messiah) simply means anointed, just as the Greek word Christos (Christ) does. High priests, prophets, and kings were anointed in Israel. David, for example, is considered a messiah. But there is only one "THE Messiah" who will usher in an idyllic era of worldwide peace, and obviously that hasn't happened yet.

Well, at least he rebuilt it

They are not going to be persuaded by these arguments, so don't hold your breath. I tend to believe that if an individual lacks the empathy needed to see the goodness in others or to have compassion on those who make mistakes, they simply don't have the capacity to even see your arguments.

Christians can use inflammatory language just as sure as non-Christians. You've probably had your blood boil by some of the things they have said that condemn you rather than listen to you.

About it never being your reaction... It is difficult for me to remember which of your posts began our lovely talk. But didn't you say something to the effect that God couldn't be a serial killer or terrorist, which implies that the Christian God is?

I look forward to your response. I'm very much enjoying our conversation.

Well, the Christian God, or the new testament, speaks of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the next life, many verses suggesting no salvation but by him, and he will separate the sheep from the goats, to send those whose names are not written in some book of life, off to a lake of fire.

Such a God is displaying sadistic cruelty I have never thought of wanting to do to someone who might truly repent and want to change, and he has the highest kill count of children of anyone I know of, so, that was why I said that.

 

[Spiderman]

@IndigoChild5559 , I don't think you are doing a horrible job at explaining your ideas. I think I'm failing to explain my response to them in a way that you can interpret them correctly. And that isn't fault on your end.

 

[Spiderman]

Christians can use inflammatory language just as sure as non-Christians. You've probably had your blood boil by some of the things they have said that condemn you rather than listen to you.

About it never being your reaction... It is difficult for me to remember which of your posts began our lovely talk. But didn't you say something to the effect that God couldn't be a serial killer or terrorist, which implies that the Christian God is?

I look forward to your response. I'm very much enjoying our conversation.

yes, once again. I'm saying, "when they use the inflammatory language, it makes me want to have discussion with them". You said "it makes people not want to have discussion, shuts them down, makes them want to put you on ignore" That is never the case with me that I would want to put them on ignore. The opposite. I want to jump into the argument that much more if they are using inflammatory remarks.

But people are different. Thank you for helping me understand. That is all I'm trying to say. I hope we are understanding each other now.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is never the case with me that I would want to put them on ignore.

Well, my friend, that means that you are unusually patient and tolerant. Probably more so than me even. Kudos.

But people are different.

Indeed.

Thanks for what was really a lovely discussion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Such a God is displaying sadistic cruelty

I completely understand why you would feel that way. I'm just suggesting you be diplomatic in how you word it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

She also changed her name to Esther, an alternative name for Ishtar, Babylonian Queen of Heaven and sexuality.

You might be interested to know that many Jewish historians believe the story of Esther to be a kind of comedy (not history) and that the names of Esther and Mordecai are puns. Indeed, the Tanakh is filled with puns that just don't translate into English.

But before Esther, there was her predecessor, Queen Vashti, and understanding her story is crucial to understanding the extreme subjugation of Biblical women.

Vashti! My hero! She stood up for herself when asked to leave her own banquet given for all the women of the court, and wearing her crown (and many would say this implies ONLY her crown) be gawked at by the King's drunken friends.

the King met her defiance with rage, “for this deed of the queen will be made known to all women, causing them to look with contempt on her husbands”(Esther 1:17). Vashti’s banishment set an example for women who challenged their husband’s authority. It also left a space in the Royal court that needed to be filled by a new Queen, and so the king’s servants declared, “Let beautiful young virgins be sought out for the king” (Esther 2:3).

Yes. I believe the modern way of expressing it is "This is the Patriarchy."

The emotions and thoughts of these unnamed women can only be realized through the imagination of a sympathetic reader.

Even today (and things are much better now), too many men simply never stop to consider the feelings of women.

sleeping with unbelievers,

I'm confused. Other than the King her husband, what unbelievers did Esther sleep with?

stripping down nude to wear nothing but a crown, for political power ,

I'm really confused. Are we discussing Esther or Vashti?

then killing a bunch of people ,

Exactly who did either Esther or Vashti kill? In the case of Esther, all she did was prevent many deaths by making the Persians uninclined to attack and kill Jews. She AVOIDED a bloodbath. I think the only execution mentioned was that of Haman, who certainly deserved it.

 

[Spiderman]

You might be interested to know that many Jewish historians believe the story of Esther to be a kind of comedy (not history) and that the names of Esther and Mordecai are puns. Indeed, the Tanakh is filled with puns that just don't translate into English.

Vashti! My hero! She stood up for herself when asked to leave her own banquet given for all the women of the court, and wearing her crown (and many would say this implies ONLY her crown) be gawked at by the King's drunken friends.

Yes. I believe the modern way of expressing it is "This is the Patriarchy."

Even today (and things are much better now), too many men simply never stop to consider the feelings of women.

I'm confused. Other than the King her husband, what unbelievers did Esther sleep with?

I'm really confused. Are we discussing Esther or Vashti?

Exactly who did either Esther or Vashti kill? In the case of Esther, all she did was prevent many deaths by making the Persians uninclined to attack and kill Jews. She AVOIDED a bloodbath. I think the only execution mentioned was that of Haman, who certainly deserved it.

No, sleeping (fornication) with unbelievers in general, who one is not married to, is breaking God's rules. And she slept with him before she became Queen, possibly a very traumatic experience that her uncle put her up to.... and stood before the king's drunken friends wearing only a crown, before she became Queen. It was sort of the martyrdom (not every martyrdom sacrifice means death) that she went through to be Queen and stop genocide ( save her people. )

Maybe she never did wear the crown and strip (like Vashti was ordered), lost her Queenship office over)? I did indeed read that Queen Esther had to do what Vashti refused to do, before she could receive her crown. Either way, fornication with a pagan king is probably more frowned upon by Mosaic law, but I would like to have my facts straight.

She ordered Haman hung in the gallows prepared for Mordecai, yes. Yes, it was earned. I thought as well, The king gave her the authority to kill off any Iranian (Persian) in his Empire that she felt was a threat to her people.

At any rate, I do thank you for pointing out Queen Vashti was a Hero who kept her crown , kept her dignity. She participated in the salvation of God's people in Persia as well. Which I don't think she gets enough or any recognition for.

More importantly, she stood her ground when people did not care about a woman's feelings about something like that.

I would like to honor female heroes like that, living and dead, some of them did not make it . If I can do something to please , honor, bless, empower, heal, share the suffering with, understand, offer a helping prayer , blessing, good deed, to victimized women, those abused, robbed of dignity + rights, suffered and died tragically, it means more to me making them happy (consoled), than praising and pleasing the God of the bible, who contributed to their victimization and patriarchal world more than anyone imho.

I have received too many personal experiences with and scriptures of the dead having relationship with, or interceding for the living. Enough that no one could convince me otherwise, that they are more alive than they were in a body of flesh on earth, more free, more enlightened, greater abilities, less limitations than when imprisoned to a weak, fragile body that is blind spiritually, weak, always needing to be pampered, sinful appetites (flesh at war with the spirit).

With their ancestors . Read about Rachel's tears. Interceding before her dead martyred children, contending with, offering a bitter complaint against Yahweh for being less virtuous than her or many humans.

There are stories of Vashti getting thrown off her boat, and bad things happening to her.

Esther does not resist being taken into Xerxes’s (a pagan king) harem and participating in his beauty contest

Esther not only spent the night with the king before they were married, but of all the virgins that went in to the king, Esther “pleased him the most”.
They did not spend the night playing chess. God does not approve , as a general rule. . But made an exception.

Esther marries a pagan king, in blatant violation of Mosaic law.

But I love her, and she was like a Messiah, savior, superhero. I'm saying she did it by breaking God's rules, for the right reasons, just the right way.

 

[1213]

He should not be giving life for those who hate him , if he is just going to torture them, and many of those who love him,.... some of the people he creates will be tortured by demons, brainwashed by cults and regimes in this life, and burn in hell for all eternity. God should have never created them. That is more cruel than anything I know of a human doing to another human.

I think the reason why God is great is that He gave life also for those who hate Him. But, you think it is ok, if God now kills all evil people, to end all the suffering the people cause?

If people are evil, God did not provide them the same graces he gave John the Baptist, Elijah, or the Virgin Mary, or Jesus.

I don't think that is true.

...
He could help them without taking away free will by just being a close friend, guide, telling them where to go, what to do, feeding them with food and drinks from heaven, like the miracle mana and miracle quail he fed Israelites in the wilderness. ...

I think He has offered His help, but many people don't want it and don't want to be in connection with Him.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No, sleeping (fornication) with unbelievers in general, who one is not married to, is breaking God's rules. And she slept with him before she became Queen, possibly a very traumatic experience that her uncle put her up to....

I'm not sure why you think she slept with the King before marriage. There is no mention of this in the text of Esther.

Later in your post you mentioned her being taken to his harem. This was for her care and preparation to meet him, and it only makes sense for the candidates to be housed with the other women. It does not imply that she had sex with him.

Later in your post, you mention that she was pleasing to the King as evidence meaning she slept with him. When the text says she won his favor, it never mentions a sexual encounter about a sexual encounter. In real life, I'm sure that sort of thing happens. It's just that it's not in the text of Esther. Pleasing him the most likely means that he liked things such her charm and wit and intelligence, that they had things in common, and that he found her more sexually desirable than any of the other women.

and stood before the king's drunken friends wearing only a crown, before she became Queen. It was sort of the martyrdom (not every martyrdom sacrifice means death) that she went through to be Queen and stop genocide ( save her people. )

I think you are conflating Vashti with Esther. It was Vashti who was called to stand before his drunken friends wearing a crown. While some believe this implies she should wear ONLY a crown, it is certainly not clear from the text. As we know, Vashti refused, and so was banished. IOW it didn't happen.

I believe you are conflating the above passage with another passage about Esther. After she was queen, she came to see the King and revealed that she was a Jew and pleaded with the King to save her people. This was done with his court present, not anything even remotely similar to gawking, drunken friends. She at this time also wears her crown, but this is to emphasize her royal status. No one thinks that Esther was naked in this passage. In fact, Esther 5:1 states that she put on her royal robes.

I did indeed read that Queen Esther had to do what Vashti refused to do, before she could receive her crown.

I believe you when you say you read this somewhere. I suspect he was simply comparing and contrasting the two scenes, not that Esther did what Vashti did. Of course, I don't have your source to read, so I cannot be sure.

Either way, fornication with a pagan king is probably more frowned upon by Mosaic law, but I would like to have my facts straight.

First, I do agree with you that Jewish law (halacha) which is based on the Torah forbids Jewish women from marrying non-Jewish men. Deuteronomy 7:3 "Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons."

However, this does not mean that Esther violated this law. I think I explained this before in my previous post, but I'll repeat.

The Torah as we have it today would not have existed in the Persian era. And even when it was finally spliced together by editors, it was not widely known until much later, in the Maccabean era.

IOW, this law did not apply to Esther given the era in which she lived.

She ordered Haman hung in the gallows prepared for Mordecai, yes. Yes, it was earned. I thought as well,

Yeppers

The king gave her the authority to kill off any Iranian (Persian) in his Empire that she felt was a threat to her people.

Exactly. She could defend herself against 463521anyone who attacked her. This very fact prevented them from attacking her.

At any rate, I do thank you for pointing out Queen Vashti was a Hero who kept her crown , kept her dignity.

Absolutamente !!!

She participated in the salvation of God's people in Persia as well. Which I don't think she gets enough or any recognition for.

This part I'm not sure of. How did Vashti's choice not to appear before the King and his drunken friends have anything to do with preventing the genocide of Jews? I'm open to the idea if you can back it up with a good logical argument.

More importantly, she stood her ground when people did not care about a woman's feelings about something like that.

Exactly.

I would like to honor female heroes like that, living and dead, some of them did not make it . If I can do something to please , honor, bless, empower, heal, share the suffering with, understand, offer a helping prayer , blessing, good deed, to victimized women, those abused, robbed of dignity + rights, suffered and died tragically, it means more to me making them happy (consoled), than praising and pleasing the God of the bible, who contributed to their victimization and patriarchal world more than anyone imho.

You're a gem!

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, the Christian God, or the new testament, speaks of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the next life, many verses suggesting no salvation but by him, and he will separate the sheep from the goats, to send those whose names are not written in some book of life, off to a lake of fire.

Such a God is displaying sadistic cruelty I have never thought of wanting to do to someone who might truly repent and want to change, and he has the highest kill count of children of anyone I know of, so, that was why I said that.

I've been reading some of the comments here and wonder what you think about doctors who perform abortions and women who elect to have them.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm not sure why you think she slept with the King before marriage. There is no mention of this in the text of Esther.

Later in your post you mentioned her being taken to his harem. This was for her care and preparation to meet him, and it only makes sense for the candidates to be housed with the other women. It does not imply that she had sex with him.

Later in your post, you mention that she was pleasing to the King as evidence meaning she slept with him. When the text says she won his favor, it never mentions a sexual encounter about a sexual encounter. In real life, I'm sure that sort of thing happens. It's just that it's not in the text of Esther. Pleasing him the most likely means that he liked things such her charm and wit and intelligence, that they had things in common, and that he found her more sexually desirable than any of the other women.

I think you are conflating Vashti with Esther. It was Vashti who was called to stand before his drunken friends wearing a crown. While some believe this implies she should wear ONLY a crown, it is certainly not clear from the text. As we know, Vashti refused, and so was banished. IOW it didn't happen.

I believe you are conflating the above passage with another passage about Esther. After she was queen, she came to see the King and revealed that she was a Jew and pleaded with the King to save her people. This was done with his court present, not anything even remotely similar to gawking, drunken friends. She at this time also wears her crown, but this is to emphasize her royal status. No one thinks that Esther was naked in this passage. In fact, Esther 5:1 states that she put on her royal robes.

I believe you when you say you read this somewhere. I suspect he was simply comparing and contrasting the two scenes, not that Esther did what Vashti did. Of course, I don't have your source to read, so I cannot be sure.

First, I do agree with you that Jewish law (halacha) which is based on the Torah forbids Jewish women from marrying non-Jewish men. Deuteronomy 7:3 "Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons."

However, this does not mean that Esther violated this law. I think I explained this before in my previous post, but I'll repeat.

The Torah as we have it today would not have existed in the Persian era. And even when it was finally spliced together by editors, it was not widely known until much later, in the Maccabean era.

IOW, this law did not apply to Esther given the era in which she lived.

Yeppers

Exactly. She could defend herself against 463521anyone who attacked her. This very fact prevented them from attacking her.

Absolutamente !!!

This part I'm not sure of. How did Vashti's choice not to appear before the King and his drunken friends have anything to do with preventing the genocide of Jews? I'm open to the idea if you can back it up with a good logical argument.

Exactly.

You're a gem!

I think the Persian King should have seen how wise , prudent, courageous, humble, virtous she was, and that should have been enough , without good sex. In a perfectly rational world, in a fair world, in a sane world, that would be the case.

But this is the same man who summoned his Queen to humiliate her naked in front of everyone. That is one of the ugliest reasons to divorce your wife, dethrone her, and make her unemployed. So, this King was as far from virtue , such people are not usually looking for wisdom, prudence, modesty, holiness, more than external beauty and great sex.

Keep in mind, these women were chosen because they were virgins and because they were physically objectified in a beauty contest for their beauty. So, if he was looking for wisdom, modesty, holiness, they wouldn't have to be virgins , they wouldn't have to have nice bodies or beautiful faces....

So, he is not a very virtuous man, and he was summoning the most beautiful virgins in a beauty pageant to spend the night with him.

The words have implications. I have seen repeatedly what opinion is on the issue. But yes, "won his favor", could mean "charm, wit, intelligence, and they played chess, and told jokes and parables, gave back rubs and cuddled.

Vashti's decision to not appear before the king and his drunken friends, allowed Queen Esther, descendant of King Saul, from the wolf tribe of Benjamin, the right hand of Jacob, where the dynasty began....to create a Messiah.

Cyrus was born in the country she lived. He decided to carry on her mission, purpose, legacy, and became King of Babylon, King of the largest Empire that had existed up until that time. Payed for the reconstruction of the Temple.

Ended legal persecution of Jews or treating them second best because of religion, in all of the land he occupied. Made it as safe to be a Jew in Jerusalem, as the former greatest enemy , "most evil city of Babylon."

Cyrus would have been able to or inspired to do that, were it not for Vashti and Esther. Esther would not have been summoned, had Vashti not defiantly stood her ground, and kept her crown! The genocide would have been thorough. So, it is very good Vashti did that. So, she and Esther are heroes, both of them played a role, Vashti fighting to stop a different front on lust, misogyny, and vice. Esther stopped genocide and inspired a genuine Messiah.

I guess I will need to re read the book of Esther again (as opposed to books where people explain what the text meant) to know what is actually found only in the text .

Like, there are many places in Scripture that are talking about sex, that don't use any of the modern language phrase of words for "having intercourse, sex etc."

But , it has been a great conversation with you. Did you grow up in a Jewish family? Were you married into one? A convert? Do you know if you decend from any of the tribes of Israel? Benjamin? Judah? Levi?

Thank you for the compliment! You are a gem as well. Hashem loves you very much!

Peace and good will to you!

 

[Spiderman]

I've been reading some of the comments here and wonder what you think about doctors who perform abortions and women who elect to have them.

I've seen some of the lives of torture, dissapointment , and suicide, or so grief stricken, bullied, and neglected, people become vicious monsters and die by suicide or the electric chair , or swat teams, or gang violence.

If their mother's would have aborted them, less suffering, and they don't go to hell forever. They face God with a clean slate!

 

[YoursTrue]

I've seen some of the lives of torture, dissapointment , and suicide, or so grief stricken, bullied, and neglected, people become vicious monsters and die by suicide or the electric chair , or swat teams, or gang violence.

If their mother's would have aborted them, less suffering, and they don't go to hell forever. They face God with a clean slate!

I agree sad, bad things happen in abundance. Not sure what you mean by your last paragraph. Please explain if you will. "If their mother's would have aborted them, less suffering, and they don't go to hell forever." Thank you. I think many (not all, of course) admit we're suffering.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But this is the same man who summoned his Queen to humiliate her naked in front of everyone.

It sounds like you believe that a man who is boorish on one occasion will be predatory in all situations. You need to take two things into consideration. The first is that perfectly kind and good people will become mean when they are drunk. The second is that people will commit all sorts of atrocities when part of a group that they would never do on their own.

Keep in mind, these women were chosen because they were virgins and because they were physically objectified in a beauty contest for their beauty. So, if he was looking for wisdom, modesty, holiness, they wouldn't have to be virgins , they wouldn't have to have nice bodies or beautiful faces....

The one thing I have learned about men is that they all, every single last one of them, want a woman who is beautiful. That doesn't mean it is the only trait they are looking for. How often I have heard men say, "I want a wife who is beautiful on the inside and the outside." They really do NOT want an ugly woman, but clearly they are looking for something more than just looks.

I guess I will need to re read the book of Esther again (as opposed to books where people explain what the text meant) to know what is actually found only in the text .

There is a right time to listen to scholars, who know far more about ancient languages and cultures than we do. But there are also times when it is just good to read the actual text ourselves, to see what is actually there, and what assumptions people read in between the lines.

Like, there are many places in Scripture that are talking about sex, that don't use any of the modern language phrase of words for "having intercourse, sex etc."

English speaking people today have a wide array of what Spock would call "colorful metaphors" that refer to sex. Screw, bang, and shag come to mind, as well as words that I really can't mention in a family forum.

You are correct that in ancient Israelite/Jewish culture, they had plenty of their own euphemisms, and they are equally charming. My favorite is
Ruth 3:14:
So she lay at his feet until morning, but got up before anyone could be recognized.

You gotta chuckle about that one.

 

[Spiderman]

It sounds like you believe that a man who is boorish on one occasion will be predatory in all situations. You need to take two things into consideration. The first is that perfectly kind and good people will become mean when they are drunk. The second is that people will commit all sorts of atrocities when part of a group that they would never do on their own.

The one thing I have learned about men is that they all, every single last one of them, want a woman who is beautiful. That doesn't mean it is the only trait they are looking for. How often I have heard men say, "I want a wife who is beautiful on the inside and the outside." They really do NOT want an ugly woman, but clearly they are looking for something more than just looks.

There is a right time to listen to scholars, who know far more about ancient languages and cultures than we do. But there are also times when it is just good to read the actual text ourselves, to see what is actually there, and what assumptions people read in between the lines.

English speaking people today have a wide array of what Spock would call "colorful metaphors" that refer to sex. Screw, bang, and shag come to mind, as well as words that I really can't mention in a family forum.

You are correct that in ancient Israelite/Jewish culture, they had plenty of their own euphemisms, and they are equally charming. My favorite is
Ruth 3:14:
So she lay at his feet until morning, but got up before anyone could be recognized.

You gotta chuckle about that one.

Yeah. Men want a beautiful woman on inside and out. But, external beauty, if it isn't internal as well, is gone very quickly, fleeting, and fragile.

People dedicated to growing in wisdom, understanding destiny, leadership, might find it more a distraction, .,...I'm not sure how Solomon was the wisest man that ever was, but hundreds of wives and hundreds of concubines.

Isn't a concubine basically a woman who is owned as property and possession, that does not have the right to consent to sex. And then, that wasn't enough women for him. He had to bring in those God forbade and raise taxes. Many left. Wisest man in history? Really?

 

[Spiderman]

I agree sad, bad things happen in abundance. Not sure what you mean by your last paragraph. Please explain if you will. "If their mother's would have aborted them, less suffering, and they don't go to hell forever." Thank you. I think many (not all, of course) admit we're suffering.

I'm saying. Abortion is evil because life begins at conception.

But because of how terribly God treats planet earth, many people are raped, turned into sexual predators, become violent, serial killers, drafted into wicked regimes, become quadrapeligic in an injury, commit suicide, or burn in hell, or go before God on judgement day petrified , it seems like I would be very thankful, grateful, if my mother would abort me than give me life.

The best way to guarentee that your child doesn't go to hell or die an enemy reprobate of God or servant of the Devil, is get an abortion. So, because of how cruel and irresponsible God is, abortion is provides a better future for our children.

 

[Spiderman]

I think the reason why God is great is that He gave life also for those who hate Him. But, you think it is ok, if God now kills all evil people, to end all the suffering the people cause?

I don't think that is true.

I think He has offered His help, but many people don't want it and don't want to be in connection with Him.

see the above post about giving life to people that hate him. I see a world full of confused people he is not shepherding, he is not guiding, scared people, no one has the answers. Stupid lives waisted. Pray for God to be responsible please!

 

[YoursTrue]

Yeah. Men want a beautiful woman on inside and out. But, external beauty, if it isn't internal as well, is gone very quickly, fleeting, and fragile.

People dedicated to growing in wisdom, understanding destiny, leadership, might find it more a distraction, .,...I'm not sure how Solomon was the wisest man that ever was, but hundreds of wives and hundreds of concubines.

Isn't a concubine basically a woman who is owned as property and possession, that does not have the right to consent to sex. And then, that wasn't enough women for him. He had to bring in those God forbade and raise taxes. Many left. Wisest man in history? Really?

People can have various qualities, some of which may not integrate well with other qualities they have. A person may be technically wise in certain matters, but selfish in other matters. That's what I think. Do you agree?