The religion you rejected - why did you reject it?

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Inspired by this thread: The religion you believe in - Why did you choose to believe that religion?

I'm not talking about religions where a passing familiarity was enough for you decide they weren't for you. I'm talking about religions that you were once immersed in: the ones you seriously considered a participated in, or where you were a full member.

If you are no longer a part of a religion you were once in - or were at least on a path toward - why did you reject the religion?

I was a Christian for 18 years. In studying to be able to defend my beliefs I ended up becoming unconvinced that there was good evidence for my belief in god. It seemed like the more I studied and prayed to god for understanding the more I became unconvinced that god existed. It started with realizing the glaring inconsistencies in the bible about a loving god that did horrible things to people and just the contradictions that have no reasonable solutions. It was about a 2 year journey that began with a sincere attempt to justify what I believed. It is not easy losing ones faith. I don't know how many times I begged god to show me he existed. I learned a lot about epistemology, logic and reason and learned to use these tools better. I now have a longing to know what is true and what is not no matter what the implications are.

 

[Clear]

1) Regarding strict athiesm

ChristineM said : "It's more a case of i have no valid evidence that there is a god, do you want to prove that wrong?"

Hi @ChristineM


You are confusing definitions.
Your confusion undermines your examples.

A) Regarding the definition of atheism/theism/agnosticism
The strict Theist has a belief that a God exists.
The strict Atheist has a belief that no God exists.
The strict Agnostic does not know if a God exists or not and does not take a strict position on either existence or non existence of a God.
(All three of these definitions are independent of whether the person has or does not have valid evidence.)


B) The presence or absence of "valid evidence" does not, strictly, determine theism or atheism
One may have “no valid evidence” that there is a God, yet believe in a God.
One may have valid evidence that that there is a god, yet not believe in a God.
Thus, The presence or absence of “valid evidence” does not, strictly, define atheism.

There are, of course, grey areas between these strict positions.

φυτωακω

 

[LuisDantas]

Inspired by this thread: The religion you believe in - Why did you choose to believe that religion?

I'm not talking about religions where a passing familiarity was enough for you decide they weren't for you. I'm talking about religions that you were once immersed in: the ones you seriously considered a participated in, or where you were a full member.

If you are no longer a part of a religion you were once in - or were at least on a path toward - why did you reject the religion?

I rejected Catholicism because I was raised in it while never having been a believer, and eventually realized that there is a contradiction in that situation and that it should be resolved.

I would like to say that rejected SAW Gnosticism because I was halfway through my eventual development of an understanding of the role of Dharma and the need to pursue it - but it would be a lie. The truth is that it was way too credulous a path to fit me, and it took me a ridiculously long time to truly understand and accept that. I have to add that I adhered to it for all the wrong reasons, even though it was a marked improvement for me at first.

I rejected the Bahai Faith because it is inequivocally Abrahamic and theistic, and I can't in good faith adhere to Abrahamic creeds, particularly when they emphasize monotheism and all the more when they want to co-op non-Abrahamic beliefs.

 

[danieldemol]

Inspired by this thread: The religion you believe in - Why did you choose to believe that religion?

I'm not talking about religions where a passing familiarity was enough for you decide they weren't for you. I'm talking about religions that you were once immersed in: the ones you seriously considered a participated in, or where you were a full member.

If you are no longer a part of a religion you were once in - or were at least on a path toward - why did you reject the religion?

I rejected the Baha'i faith because it is not in accordance with science and reason contrary to its claims.

That and I discovered most of its principles where simply marketing slogans that the details of the faith were not in accordance with.

In my opinion.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Inspired by this thread: The religion you believe in - Why did you choose to believe that religion?

I'm not talking about religions where a passing familiarity was enough for you decide they weren't for you. I'm talking about religions that you were once immersed in: the ones you seriously considered a participated in, or where you were a full member.

If you are no longer a part of a religion you were once in - or were at least on a path toward - why did you reject the religion?

I rejected Christianity because reality takes precedence over any type of fantasy personally.

Also the people themselves don't reflect any of the teachings and are unaffected by the religion itself, showing to me that they are no better or worse than any other religions out there. Christianity also severely lacks uniquenes and quality that is needed for it to stand out in any significant or special way that would cause anyone to think there is something to the religion worth investigating.

It was easy for me to leave after 30 years as a Christian.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I rejected the Baha'i faith because it is not in accordance with science and reason contrary to its claims.

That and I discovered most of its principles where simply marketing slogans that the details of the faith were not in accordance with.

In my opinion.

It was disappointing that a number of adherents cannot seemingly make it much past two paragraphs in any conversation without the compulsive need to interject at some point "Baha'i" into it.

 

[Viker]

Satanism.

I found that there comes a point when heterodoxy becomes the new orthodoxy. So many Satanists seem to get wrapped up in bickering over what counts as "true" Satanism that they end up becoming just as dogmatic and cliquish as the Christians* they theoretically oppose. I started to feel that if somebody has been a Satanist for a while, the most adversarial thing they could do would be to start wearing pastels to their church bake sale.

I do still have a soft spot for groups like the Satanic Temple and some solitary practitioners. The Satanic Temple actually makes practical use of Satan as a symbol and I've found that Satanists who emphasise doing things their own way are less likely to join in on the "eviler than thou" merry-go-round.


*Some Christians at least. I used to think of Christianity in fairly simplistic terms, treating it as a monolithic whole that was to be opposed in its entirety. Abandoning that mentality probably also contributed to my departure from Satanism.

Ditto. I'm still drawn to the LHP but now I am totally defining an -ism of my own. Heading in a direction for, by and of me and a few collaborators. I've even allowed for others to still refer to me as a Satanist if they choose so. Albeit much different than the typical found on the internet and more so a theist (very soft in that regard).

So sick of the "true" and the "real" of any -ism. Forgetfulness of past orthodoxy used to be a sin in Satanism.

 

[Viker]

I rejected Christianity as it never seemed to be of any help or useful for me. As a younger me I began asserting myself. When it came to the abuse, neglect and bullying I decided I wasn't turning the other cheek to be smote anymore. Standing up for myself meant I was going to have to fight back and not wait for another to help or save me.

Basically, Christ failed (not just a religion). Rather you like hearing or reading that is up to you how to may react to it.

Rebellion is not without cause.

 

[Left Coast]

Could I also say that atheism does believe in a type of salvation. That humanity, in and of itself with its capability, can fix the ills of humanity to be "saved" of its problems.

This just isn't true, Ken. Some atheists might believe this. Others, I'm quite confident, believe that we are essentially bleeped. Or, that the jury is still out.

ETA: I hope you and yours are safe and suffered no damage from the hurricane.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I rejected Christianity as it never seemed to be of any help or useful for me. As a younger me I began asserting myself. When it came to the abuse, neglect and bullying I decided I wasn't turning the other cheek to be smote anymore. Standing up for myself meant I was going to have to fight back and not wait for another to help or save me.

Basically, Christ failed (not just a religion). Rather you like hearing or reading that is up to you how to may react to it.

Rebellion is not without cause.

Well said, Viker. The circumstances in your life that you mentioned are undoubtedly ones to which I can relate. When I was growing up, I wasted many years pleading with God to save me from the abuse and bullying I endured. Eventually, though, I found the courage and strength within to stand up to my abusers, and I saved myself. Despite this, I regret to say that I was afflicted with what I believe to be akin to Stockholm's Syndrome, and it took me several more years afterward before I was eventually able to renounce my faith and my belief in God. I can honestly say that it was the best decision I have ever made for myself. My sole regret is that, despite all of my suffering, I foolishly hung onto the false hope and trust I had in God and persisted in believing what I now see to be plain lies—that God loved me and that he was my heavenly father. To be honest, I feel foolish for believing that God is as loving, merciful, and just as most devout Christians claim he is. I should have known better given how miserable my life was and the living hell I was in, but I was so indoctrinated that I couldn't see the forest for the trees. However, I'm pleased to say that I'm free and my life is significantly better now that I'm not a Christian. I now feel joy and serenity in my heart, which is something I never felt while I was a Christian.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Inspired by this thread: The religion you believe in - Why did you choose to believe that religion?

I'm not talking about religions where a passing familiarity was enough for you decide they weren't for you. I'm talking about religions that you were once immersed in: the ones you seriously considered a participated in, or where you were a full member.

If you are no longer a part of a religion you were once in - or were at least on a path toward - why did you reject the religion?

I grew up Christian and reconnected with my Christian roots in my early twenties through evangelical Christianity. There were some obvious problem with Christian fundamentalism such as how it set itself apart from other religions as the one true path. Denial of spiritual truth of other religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism was a other major issue. The Baha'i Faith provided a coherent narrative to reconcile my Christian roots with other religions.

 

[Kenny]

This just isn't true, Ken. Some atheists might believe this. Others, I'm quite confident, believe that we are essentially bleeped. Or, that the jury is still out.

ETA: I hope you and yours are safe and suffered no damage from the hurricane.

Thanks for the update. It was just my perception but I stand informed.

Thanks for asking. Only downed branches here but in southwest Florida, utter devastation. I am happy that most people decided to leave.

 

[ChristineM]

1) Regarding strict athiesm

ChristineM said : "It's more a case of i have no valid evidence that there is a god, do you want to prove that wrong?"

Hi @ChristineM


You are confusing definitions.
Your confusion undermines your examples.

A) Regarding the definition of atheism/theism/agnosticism
The strict Theist has a belief that a God exists.
The strict Atheist has a belief that no God exists.
The strict Agnostic does not know if a God exists or not and does not take a strict position on either existence or non existence of a God.
(All three of these definitions are independent of whether the person has or does not have valid evidence.)


B) The presence or absence of "valid evidence" does not, strictly, determine theism or atheism
One may have “no valid evidence” that there is a God, yet believe in a God.
One may have valid evidence that that there is a god, yet not believe in a God.
Thus, The presence or absence of “valid evidence” does not, strictly, define atheism.

There are, of course, grey areas between these strict positions.

φυτωακω

Teaching granny to suck eggs?

Atheist: one who disbelieves or lackd belief in the existence of God or gods.

Nothing more nothing less. Anything else you want to add to that definition is doen to your own personal prejudices.


BTW. I have no valid evidence, unless you can show me wrong by providing some.

 

[leroy]

I was a Christian for 18 years. In studying to be able to defend my beliefs I ended up becoming unconvinced that there was good evidence for my belief in god. It seemed like the more I studied and prayed to god for understanding the more I became unconvinced that god existed. It started with realizing the glaring inconsistencies in the bible about a loving god that did horrible things to people and just the contradictions that have no reasonable solutions. It was about a 2 year journey that began with a sincere attempt to justify what I believed. It is not easy losing ones faith. I don't know how many times I begged god to show me he existed. I learned a lot about epistemology, logic and reason and learned to use these tools better. I now have a longing to know what is true and what is not no matter what the implications are.

During your journey did you study arguments like the Kalam Cosmological Argument or the Fine Tuning argument? (My 2 favorite)

Why did you reject them? What flaws did you see?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Sin is a transgression against god, atheists cannot sin. Of course they can do wrong but thats no sin

God doesn't cease to exist because you don't believe in him.

 

[ChristineM]

God doesn't cease to exist because you don't believe in him.

Or god doesn't exist just because you believe otherwise

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Sin is a transgression against god, atheists cannot sin. Of course they can do wrong but thats no sin

In my opinion, it gets rather tiresome whenever Christians try to push their biblical belief in "sins against God" onto unbelievers by constantly preaching and proselytizing. Most Christians state their beliefs as if they're an absolute fact, when, in fact, they are not.

Or god doesn't exist just because you believe otherwise

I was just about to respond with something similar to what you said.

 

[ChristineM]

In my opinion, it gets rather tiresome whenever Christians try to push their belief in "sins against God" onto unbelievers by constantly preaching and proselytizing. Most Christians state their beliefs as if they're an absolute fact, when, in fact, they are not.

I have noticed that it's happening quite a lot in the last couple of months here on RF. Perhaps its a new Christian edict they think will embarrass non believers into joining their club.

I was just about to respond with something similar to what you said.

 

[idea]

I was "all- in" Mormonism - was a teacher, activity leader, relief society secretary, worked with youth and adults, temple, gave up career for church - church was my life, all- in.

I left because of child abuse by church leaders. My kids were abused, and other kids I know and love. Mormon church covered up abuse of the high priest who abused my kids, and others, had videos going back 18 years, and problems his entire life.
Learned of so many others who were abused while working through our case. Went through trial with no support from all who I thought were friends. Won - that pedophile is in jail for life, without parole (will be dead before sentence is up). Church covers up abuse. For our case, we were led to believe his first wife had issues- not him. Church "addiction" groups perpetuated issues - no mandatory reporting, no acknowledgment or help for victims. Pedophile called /served in leadership positions, everyone raised hands voted him into leadership in front of kids.

Betrayal trauma + losing faith, really painful to go through. Religious groups are all now triggering to me - I get sick to my stomach around Religious people.

 

[Windwalker]

However, whether the persons athiest religion believes it can or whether they believe it cannot "save" humanity from the worse of it's ills, I certainly agree that athiesm is characterized by faith, and that it has a specific religious faith (e.g. "I have faith that there is no God") and is thus a religious faith like other religions.

The subject of atheism is a complex one, and while I'll might argue that because someone claiming to be an atheist is doing so in direct relation to the question of the existence of God, that does make it a question of faith by default. One could conclude that "no-God" to the question of God is a matter of "religious faith" because of that. It is not a scientific matter, but purely a matter of personal belief.

But I would not go so far as to as to call atheism itself as a religion. It simply doesn't qualify. It has no central authority, no core teachings or philosophies, no common practices and rituals, and so forth. It's those things that define a religion.

That said however, I will allow that for some people, they treat their atheism as if were a religion, complete with trying to convince everyone else that their beliefs about there being no God is the real truth, in the exact same way religious enthusiasts who cherish their own beliefs feel they must evangelize and convert the world to their ways of thinking. In that sense, they are being religious with their atheism, in the same way the evangelical is with their theism. Two sides of the same "true believer" coin.

But just as you can have those who believe in God, but are not religious (the Spiritual but not Religious or SBNR people), you can have atheists who are not religious about their beliefs that way either. They just simply live life to the best they can without the view of any Divine reality that others might. Neither are technically following or practicing any religion per se.