The religion you would choose if you realized you're gay

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You're committing the old fallacy of Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

How do you figure?

But then experience of this forum teaches one atheists will commit any fallacy they can get away with in order to attack any religion. The site I pointed to says

How would you feel about someone who said that they consider Mein Kampf part of their living tradition, but they reject all the antisemitic parts and just appreciate the parts about persevering in the face of adversity?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They are not Christian Jewish its false, they now have CUUP coven if UU Pagan churches some of which claim to be Wiccan churches some Pagan some are Buhddists some are Atheists.

So you disagree with this (emphasis mine)?

These are the six sources our congregations affirm and promote:

• Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
• Words and deeds of prophetic people which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
• Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
• Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
• Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit;
• Spiritual teachings of Earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

However even if they were all Christian and Jewish there are many liberal tolerant Jewish and Christian congregations.

But not so tolerant that they have removed all the anti-gay material from their scriptures and beliefs.

I personally can speak personally for every UU in the Dallas Fort worth area, they all sponsor Gay Pride day and everyone do volunteer stuff for Gay Pride day. UU is pro GLBT

I agree: they're generally pretty good about being on the right side of LGBTQ issues. They'd just do an even better job if they took the extra step of explicitly repudiating or expurgating the anti LGBTQ stuff in the "Jewish and Christian teachings" that they "affirm and promote."

 

[Deeje]

Sorry about the length of this but you raise so many important points to discuss. I'll break it up.....

I'd like to know about Masada, and I'll look into Rome some time after work today, and yes, most of that was rather difficult to figure out. However, I still managed to learn it one way or another.

If you take the Bible as one story, then you don't get sidetracked by things that you don't fully understand.

I see it like a huge jigsaw puzzle, with pieces that seem difficult to put together.....but when you have the big picture on the box to guide you in the placement of the pieces, then it is not such a difficult task.

If you understand what God's purpose was at the beginning.....what went wrong and why......and then what God did to restore his original purpose for this earth and humankind, then the pieces will be easy to fit into the big picture. Having unconnected bits is just confusing. Add Christendom's false doctrines and you have a recipe for spiritual disaster.

If we're waiting on a rule like King Solomon's, then won't we be waiting for the terms of the Old Covenant to come back into effect? To me, that's the only way God truly protects the weak(by destroying the wicked).

OK....you seem fixated on the old covenant for some reason.

Jeremiah 31:31-33.......
31 “Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant. 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”
33 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

Can you see there that God himself declared that the 'new covenant' would NOT be like the old one.....that covenant served a purpose and applied only to Jews and for a certain period of time. It was never supposed to be permanent.

The new covenant did not need a written code....it was written on hearts and enacted through a Bible trained conscience.

The ancient nation of Israel was fairly insulated in a physical territory with laws and penalties that were enforced by those in authority carrying out those penalties and seeing justice done. As long as that situation continued, the Law ensured that obedience was beneficial for all.

The written law was cut and dried, but it did not make people obedient from their own hearts. It was the letter of the Law and its penalties that swayed people to obey. But the new covenant was to be different. Being an internal law, individuals could demonstrate that they were followers of Christ just by their own thinking and conduct. They did not need a written law to make them law-abiding....they would do so naturally. This would make them stand out in a lawless world.

 

[Deeje]

I mean sure we can live in Disney World and Never Land all we want hoping God will just be nice to everyone, but it does not line up. It's said that if you worship falsely, God will just wipe your society from the face of the Earth and leave a small remnant remaining. That sounds like the "end times" to me. I slept on this Old/New Covenant thing, and I'm sorry, but I'm leaning towards you guys being kind of confused.

I'm not sure what you find confusing? Could the confusion have something to do with your own misunderstanding of the reason for the two covenants in the two eras? Both were to serve a purpose for the time they were in force. One was for Jews only....the other was for both Jewish and Gentile disciples of Jesus Christ. If it was foretold that a new covenant would replace the old one, why are you hanging onto the past as if there is no law at all? The law continues in the hearts of all genuine Christians. It's how Jesus separates the sheep from the goats. It's the basis for his judgment.....they follow God's laws because they want to, not because they have to. Do you understand why that's important?

However, your church was started decades ago, and I don't know how much has changed in the church over time.

If you read Daniel's prophesy concerning what God was going to do in "the time of the end" you will see that this was the time God was going to clean up his worship. He was going to provide an abundance of knowledge which would result in a 'cleansing, whitening and refining' of his worshippers. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10) The fact that this cleansing was necessary indicates that the waters had become very polluted. So the "time of the end" was to see a people who were clearing out the smelly rubbish that had accumulated over many centuries of Christendom's false teachings.

Our organization, we believe, was a coming together of those who saw the need to clean up God's worship. From small beginnings, like Jesus' first century disciples, we have grown into one united global brotherhood.....hated and persecuted because we are so different....and exposing the lies people have accepted as truth for centuries, just as Jesus exposed the false teachings of the Pharisees.

 

[Deeje]

Just as God caught the Jews off guard, He is probably going to catch the Christians off guard as well, and it's left to those who seek truth to figure it out. I don't know, I could be right, but you guys could be right as well.

That is exactly what Jesus said.....he was going to come "like a thief". The knowledge that God was going to provide in this period has forced people to make decisions about what they believe, just as the knowledge Jesus taught forced the Jews to do the same.
Only a remnant of fleshly Jews responded.....only a "few" relatively speaking, will respond to the truth in our day. (Matthew 7:13-14)

I'm still on the fence, but I'm leaning on the Old Covenant still. I've seen far too much Old Testament stuff happen in my search for truth that I can't turn my back on God, and what I believe He is.

The fence will crumble when Christ comes to judge the world as the scriptures say he will. We have to make a decision before then. How are you turning your back on God when his new covenant was designed to bless those who choose to follow the teachings of His son? Hanging onto the old covenant is what prevented Jews from benefitting from the new one. Are you making the same mistake? Only you can answer that.

What do you think is 'wrong' about the new covenant that makes you want to cling to one that does not even apply to you? It was only for Jews....In order to serve God under the old covenant, you had to convert to Judaism. Is this something you intend to do? It rules out being a Christian if you are a Gentile. Do you understand this?

I'm just too scared worshipping the god of the New Testament would be worshipping a false god, so I'd rather be safe than sorry. After all, it was Jehovah from the Old Testament who declared Himself perfect in all His ways.

I believe that this might be your major stumbling block. What makes you think that the God of the NT is a different God to that of the OT? How is God somehow less perfect now? Jesus said that everything he taught was from his Father....the very same God who led Israel out of Egypt. Jesus is not God, but was sent by him as his representative to lead sincere ones out of a corrupt religious system.....we believe that Jesus is doing that again in this time of the end. Where are you?

Please help me understand.....we have taken this thread way off topic so if you want to PM me please do.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The UUs still proclaim Jewish and Christian teachings as some of the sources for their "living tradition," so I wouldn't say they're entirely supportive of LGBTs.

May I...

They are. Was around 1960ish that they started to be more activist than religious. They still have some christian teachings such as learning from christ as a teacher and taking lessons from the bible (and all other spiritual books); but, they dropped all catholic and protestant teachings on the divinity of christ and hell specifically. Now, they accept everyone. If the founders of UU were present today, they'd see a huge change in how they started.

 

[Riders]

So you disagree with this (emphasis mine)?




But not so tolerant that they have removed all the anti-gay material from their scriptures and beliefs.


I agree: they're generally pretty good about being on the right side of LGBTQ issues. They'd just do an even better job if they took the extra step of explicitly repudiating or expurgating the anti LGBTQ stuff in the "Jewish and Christian teachings" that they "affirm and promote."

The ones I've been too, well my church was Pagan so some of them are not even Christian, some claim to be Atheist as well. CUUP Coven of UU Pagan society, UU churches who belong to that are usual Pagan in custom and belief.

 

[Riders]

So you disagree with this (emphasis mine)?




But not so tolerant that they have removed all the anti-gay material from their scriptures and beliefs.


I agree: they're generally pretty good about being on the right side of LGBTQ issues. They'd just do an even better job if they took the extra step of explicitly repudiating or expurgating the anti LGBTQ stuff in the "Jewish and Christian teachings" that they "affirm and promote."

Also here is another bit of news for you. The actual literature for UU and their beliefs state this. They teach this at all UUs, Jesus is not God. He is on the same level with Hare Krishna and other prophets of old, but they don't believe in worshiping a man.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The one God would want you to choose. What is the point of a religion that only suits yourself? If you leave God and his laws out of the equation, what is the point of religion in the first place? You may as well be your own god.

I've been looking for this post for a while, @Deeje...I AGREE with you!!!!!!!! (In terms of believing what you think to be true, rather than what is convenient. For obvious reasons I wouldn't quite state it the same way you did...)



Having said that, discovering you're gay, and that your religion thinks that is an abomination is a pretty powerful cause of cognitive dissonance.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I already am. If anyone else would like me to be theirs, I am currently recruiting minions. No experience required.

I'm interested, but I have a few concerns around the medical plans.
I mean to say, I applied for an intern position with the Aghor, and their health care plan was HORRENDOUS.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's been reclaimed and is often used as a political statement, referring to sexualities that fall outside of heteronormativity and the gay mainstream. It's intentionally vague and a lot of people like that.

This was recent, in the next suburb from mine...

Spoiler

The street where it's held is Weir street, so neat little play on words.

 

[Deeje]

I've been looking for this post for a while, @Deeje...I AGREE with you!!!!!!!! (In terms of believing what you think to be true, rather than what is convenient. For obvious reasons I wouldn't quite state it the same way you did...)

Wowsers! LnM....a point of agreement...I'll take it in any form.

Having said that, discovering you're gay, and that your religion thinks that is an abomination is a pretty powerful cause of cognitive dissonance.

I have often wondered what it would be like to have it dawn on you that your sexual orientation is not what your God would approve of?

Putting myself in that position, I would have to take it to him in prayer (as I do with any dilemma in my life)

In my experience, God is able to assist us with any problems or situations that might cause a separation from him. So I guess it would be a case of "who do I love more?"

If my realization came with an encounter with a person of the same gender as myself, then its not something I would foster because all my alarm bells would be going off. I would give myself plenty of time for introspection and meditation and come to the conclusion that this life is a pretty pathetic counterfeit compared to what I believe it was supposed to be in the beginning. I firmly believe that a better one is coming, so why would I sacrifice what is left of this life for nothing at the end of it?

I would rather sacrifice my love life for God. Sometime being a Christian requires sacrifice....I am not a slave to my flesh, so the decision would be an easy one for me.....others may have some hard choices.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Wowsers! LnM....a point of agreement...I'll take it in any form.



I have often wondered what it would be like to have it dawn on you that your sexual orientation is not what your God would approve of?

Putting myself in that position, I would have to take it to him in prayer (as I do with any dilemma in my life)

In my experience, God is able to assist us with any problems or situations that might cause a separation from him. So I guess it would be a case of "who do I love more?"

If my realization came with an encounter with a person of the same gender as myself, then its not something I would foster because all my alarm bells would be going off. I would give myself plenty of time for introspection and meditation and come to the conclusion that this life is a pretty pathetic counterfeit compared to what I believe it was supposed to be in the beginning. I firmly believe that a better one is coming, so why would I sacrifice what is left of this life for nothing at the end of it?

I would rather sacrifice my love life for God. Sometime being a Christian requires sacrifice....I am not a slave to my flesh, so the decision would be an easy one for me.....others may have some hard choices.

Aware this is a little tangential, so okay if you don't want to pursue.
I get what you mean about sacrifice, and it makes some sense to me. We all make sacrifices in our life, for various reasons.

I think, though, that even accepting that, and assuming I could live without sex, it would be hard for me to reconcile honestly held feelings (which I'm not acting on) with my beliefs on an omni-benevolent God. Either I'd have to view it as a test, I'd have to view myself as flawed, or I'd need to adjust my view of God and religion.

To put it another way, I've made certain vows to my wife, and I've never gone against those, even if attracted to other women. If that attraction to another woman wasn't temporary but was long-standing, I think it would lead me to examine my relationship with my wife, even assuming I didn't act on it.

It's just another thing to try and take and mold into an overall coherent world view.

Anyway, like I said, I'm running at a bit of a tangent here, just letting my mind ramble a little.

 

[Deeje]

Aware this is a little tangential, so okay if you don't want to pursue.
I get what you mean about sacrifice, and it makes some sense to me. We all make sacrifices in our life, for various reasons.

I think, though, that even accepting that, and assuming I could live without sex, it would be hard for me to reconcile honestly held feelings (which I'm not acting on) with my beliefs on an omni-benevolent God. Either I'd have to view it as a test, I'd have to view myself as flawed, or I'd need to adjust my view of God and religion.

To put it another way, I've made certain vows to my wife, and I've never gone against those, even if attracted to other women. If that attraction to another woman wasn't temporary but was long-standing, I think it would lead me to examine my relationship with my wife, even assuming I didn't act on it.

It's just another thing to try and take and mold into an overall coherent world view.

Anyway, like I said, I'm running at a bit of a tangent here, just letting my mind ramble a little.

Being true to yourself if you are a Christian is very much like being married.....having committed your life to your God, you could not in all conscience look at another human being with lust as the sole motivator for dissolving your previous commitment....or breaking your vows.
Can we steal happiness from someone and not feel bad? Are our feelings more important than theirs?

I could never be happy knowing I made someone who loves me, miserable. Could you?

I would rather break my own heart than someone else's....especially God's.

 

[Call me name]

Which would you choose and why?

I need to say for all of you who read this.

RELIGION DOES NOT TO CHOOSE FOR OUSELF SO WE CAN CONFORT WITH THE RELIGION!

Belongs all religion there must just be the one that will be right and just one must become the truth.

Then if the atheis is the one is the true one then all theistic people shall leave their faith to follow the true one!

If the religion right all athe

Which would you choose and why?

I need to make straight something about this question.

First I need to tell everyone that read this. RELIOGION DOES NOT CHOOSE FOR BECAUSE OUR LIFESTYLE, SEXUALITY, OR OUR FAITH!

Don't you realise if relialise if atheis and theistic religion cannot be both right?

Don't you realise if abrahamic religion and other religion cannot be right together?

Don't you realise there is just one is the truth beyond islam, jews, and christian.

It doesn't matter if you gay, lesbian, transgender, or anything but if the true one is agains you you need to leave it!

Well that I want to say...

For you question I will choose christian.
Why?
I am a bisexual tbh and as I know that Jesus really hate homosexuality.

But in one moment God said to me.

"Yes I hate you homosexuality. I hate when you think about something doesn't right. The punishment you shall take is go to hell and never ever get in touch with Me forever. But you know, I love you. I really love you. That's why I came to the earth, leaving all my glory just to born in blood and flesh, died for you, and rose on the third day for the prove I've won agains death! So everyone that believe that there is no other salvation within this world except me will be saved and got eternal life."

On His Word I know one thing. Jesus does not hate us homosexuality. He hates the sin, not the person. That's one of a lot of reason why I choose christian as my religion. For I know Jesus is real, so the whole bible is the truth.

Thank you

 

[Call me name]

None.

It's the only one that makes sense to a gay person.

U haven't tell me your thoughts .,.

 

[Riders]

 

[paarsurrey]

Which would you choose and why?

There is no other choice except to accept the truthful religion, whatever position one is in.

Regards

 

[Hockeycowboy]

But which one is the true one? Does anyone have it figured out? I would assume it's some small group somewhere that everyone ignores considering God is going to destroy this entire world supposedly...

If we had to go by teachings, we'd never get done! Too much confusion!
But we can't use our measuring stick; it has to be Jesus' standard...
John 13:34-35.
Matthew 5:44.
John 15:14.
John 15:17.

Compare these to 1 John 3:10-15.

 

[Muffled]

Which would you choose and why?

I believe it would be Satanism. They like all kinds of perverted sex.