The righteous suffer and the wicked prosper.

[IndigoChild5559]

Many, many people believe that if they are good people, that God will bless and protect them, and that the wicked will be punished (in this life). This is true among Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and even just monotheists who have no particular organized religion. Certainly in the Bible, there are many places where it seems to indicate this. I'm not here to say that those passages don't exist.

My purpose here is to say that this is not a consistent teaching, that the Bible also teaches the reverse, that the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper, that essentially, we cannot depend upon God to protect or bless us, nor does he prevent those who are evil from coming out on top.

Ecclesiastes 7:15: "In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these: the righteous perishing in their righteousness, and the wicked living long in their wickedness."

Psalm 73:13-14 "Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure and have washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been afflicted, and every morning brings new punishments."

Habakkuk 1:2-4 "How long, Lord, must I call for help, but you do not listen? Or cry out to you, ‘Violence!’ but you do not save? Why do you make me look at injustice? Why do you tolerate wrongdoing? Destruction and violence are before me; there is strife, and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails. The wicked hem in the righteous, so that justice is perverted."

Psalm 73:3-5: "For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from common human burdens; they are not plagued by human ills."

Job 21:7-13: "Why do the wicked live on, growing old and increasing in power? They see their children established around them, their offspring before their eyes. Their homes are safe and free from fear; the rod of God is not on them. Their bulls never fail to breed; their cows calve and do not miscarry. They send forth their children as a flock; their little ones dance about. They sing to the music of timbrel and lyre; they make merry to the sound of the pipe. They spend their years in prosperity and go down to the grave in peace."

Jeremiah 12:1: "You are always righteous, Lord, when I bring a case before you. Yet I would speak with you about your justice: Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all the faithless live at ease?"

 

[Spice]

This is the question of life that had me puzzled for many, many years. I found the guidance in the east, but then I began seeing the same perspective everywhere and began to wonder why the question still has so much weight for so many.

Here's one answer:
"All conditions and all circumstances in our lives are a result of a certain level of thinking. lf we want to change the conditions and circumstances, we have
to change the level of thinking that is responsible for it."
Albert Einstein

Here's an example:
You gotta start believing that your morning commute is cute and fun, that every cup of coffee is the best you've ever had, that even the smallest and most mundane things are exciting and new.
You have to, because that's when you start truly living. That's when you look forward to every day.

And for the privileged who feel life is tough, I'm not saying it isn't, I'm saying change the attitude to gratitude and the suffering lightens up tremendously.

 

[danieldemol]

It seems some people think that all we have to do is change our attitude to an (in my view delusional) attitude that childhood Leukemia is great. The sheep that slowly bleeds to death as it's eyes are pecked out by crows or has magggots slowly chew away at it's brain till it dies are great. The insect that gets eaten from the inside out by the larvae of the wasp are great etc etc.

To those who conclude that life is always great I say you appear to either be not very observant of the tremendous suffering that exists in nature or appear to be delusional about it in my view.

 

[Spice]

It seems some people think that all we have to do is change our attitude to an (in my view delusional) attitude that childhood Leukemia is great. The sheep that slowly bleeds to death as it's eyes are pecked out by crows or has magggots slowly chew away at it's brain till it dies are great. The insect that gets eaten from the inside out by the larvae of the wasp are great etc etc.

To those who conclude that life is always great I say you appear to either be not very observant of the tremendous suffering that exists in nature or appear to be delusional about it in my view.

It's probably best to start with learning to be genuine. It's also a tremendous benefit to discard sensationalism. That, too, is a part of genuine living. The world is not what you see. You see the world as you are. I've forgotten who's quote this is, but it's a good one, don't you think?

Namaste

 

[danieldemol]

It's probably best to start with learning to be genuine. It's also a tremendous benefit to discard sensationalism. That, too, is a part of genuine living. The world is not what you see. You see the world as you are. I've forgotten who's quote this is, but it's a good one, don't you think?

Namaste

No, I believe your whole post is an ad-hominem and do not see any part of it as "good"

 

[Spice]

No, I believe your whole post is an ad-hominem and do not see any part of it as "good"

I believe that was what yours was, being it could ONLY have been in response to my post, that by the way had nothing whatsoever to do with you! So, since you found it necessary to call me delusional, and had the poor taste to get unnecessarily graphic, (I gather to get attention?) I thought I'd give you a bit of advice.

Since you took that as ad-hominem, by all means let me assure your correctness.

If at anytime you have a problem with one if my comments, have the kahoonas to say so directly. And stop being a #$#@$^^%###$.

Now is this a good example of what you bring on yourself, or not? All totally unnecessary.

Think about it. YOU have the power to make your world more pleasant.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's probably best to start with learning to be genuine. It's also a tremendous benefit to discard sensationalism. That, too, is a part of genuine living. The world is not what you see. You see the world as you are. I've forgotten who's quote this is, but it's a good one, don't you think?

Namaste

It's like people who post extremely beautiful pictures of nature without realizing the dark underlay by which such extraordinary beauty comes about.

 

[Quagmire]

I think a lot of people want to believe that life is hopeless because it excuses them from having to take responsibility for anything.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Many, many people believe that if they are good people, that God will bless and protect them, and that the wicked will be punished (in this life). This is true among Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and even just monotheists who have no particular organized religion. Certainly in the Bible, there are many places where it seems to indicate this. I'm not here to say that those passages don't exist.

My purpose here is to say that this is not a consistent teaching, that the Bible also teaches the reverse, that the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper, that essentially, we cannot depend upon God to protect or bless us, nor does he prevent those who are evil from coming out on top.

Ecclesiastes 7:15: "In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these: the righteous perishing in their righteousness, and the wicked living long in their wickedness."

Psalm 73:13-14 "Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure and have washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been afflicted, and every morning brings new punishments."

Habakkuk 1:2-4 "How long, Lord, must I call for help, but you do not listen? Or cry out to you, ‘Violence!’ but you do not save? Why do you make me look at injustice? Why do you tolerate wrongdoing? Destruction and violence are before me; there is strife, and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails. The wicked hem in the righteous, so that justice is perverted."

Psalm 73:3-5: "For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from common human burdens; they are not plagued by human ills."

Job 21:7-13: "Why do the wicked live on, growing old and increasing in power? They see their children established around them, their offspring before their eyes. Their homes are safe and free from fear; the rod of God is not on them. Their bulls never fail to breed; their cows calve and do not miscarry. They send forth their children as a flock; their little ones dance about. They sing to the music of timbrel and lyre; they make merry to the sound of the pipe. They spend their years in prosperity and go down to the grave in peace."

Jeremiah 12:1: "You are always righteous, Lord, when I bring a case before you. Yet I would speak with you about your justice: Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all the faithless live at ease?"

Instead of trying to make sense of all this, just say 's**t' and drive on.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Many, many people believe that if they are good people, that God will bless and protect them, and that the wicked will be punished (in this life). This is true among Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and even just monotheists who have no particular organized religion. Certainly in the Bible, there are many places where it seems to indicate this. I'm not here to say that those passages don't exist.

My purpose here is to say that this is not a consistent teaching, that the Bible also teaches the reverse, that the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper, that essentially, we cannot depend upon God to protect or bless us, nor does he prevent those who are evil from coming out on top.

I appreciate your take on it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Many, many people believe that if they are good people, that God will bless and protect them, and that the wicked will be punished (in this life). This is true among Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and even just monotheists who have no particular organized religion. Certainly in the Bible, there are many places where it seems to indicate this. I'm not here to say that those passages don't exist.

My purpose here is to say that this is not a consistent teaching, that the Bible also teaches the reverse, that the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper, that essentially, we cannot depend upon God to protect or bless us, nor does he prevent those who are evil from coming out on top.

Ecclesiastes 7:15: "In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these: the righteous perishing in their righteousness, and the wicked living long in their wickedness."

Psalm 73:13-14 "Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure and have washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been afflicted, and every morning brings new punishments."

Habakkuk 1:2-4 "How long, Lord, must I call for help, but you do not listen? Or cry out to you, ‘Violence!’ but you do not save? Why do you make me look at injustice? Why do you tolerate wrongdoing? Destruction and violence are before me; there is strife, and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails. The wicked hem in the righteous, so that justice is perverted."

Psalm 73:3-5: "For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from common human burdens; they are not plagued by human ills."

Job 21:7-13: "Why do the wicked live on, growing old and increasing in power? They see their children established around them, their offspring before their eyes. Their homes are safe and free from fear; the rod of God is not on them. Their bulls never fail to breed; their cows calve and do not miscarry. They send forth their children as a flock; their little ones dance about. They sing to the music of timbrel and lyre; they make merry to the sound of the pipe. They spend their years in prosperity and go down to the grave in peace."

Jeremiah 12:1: "You are always righteous, Lord, when I bring a case before you. Yet I would speak with you about your justice: Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all the faithless live at ease?"

Well even the religious must conform their own doctrine to the reality of nature and the world.

If they don't, it won't be as believable , so it must accommodate the way things actually work on its terms rather than on religious terms as it applies with certain aspects that cannot be refuted.

 

[danieldemol]

I believe that was what yours was, being it could ONLY have been in response to my post, that by the way had nothing whatsoever to do with you! So, since you found it necessary to call me delusional, and had the poor taste to get unnecessarily graphic, (I gather to get attention?) I thought I'd give you a bit of advice.

Since you took that as ad-hominem, by all means let me assure your correctness.

If at anytime you have a problem with one if my comments, have the kahoonas to say so directly. And stop being a #$#@$^^%###$.

Now is this a good example of what you bring on yourself, or not? All totally unnecessary.

Think about it. YOU have the power to make your world more pleasant.

This sounds like more ad-hominem combined with an attempt to Goad me to break forum rules to me, but whilst I can't break forum rules, I would be happy to tell you what I think of you to your face in real life anytime. I ain't hard to find.

 

[We Never Know]

I think a lot of people want to believe that life is hopeless because it excuses them from having to take responsibility for anything.

One thing I was told when I was young was "If you think you have it bad, look around and you will see others that have it worse"

Now some take that offensively because some think its said to try to minimze your troubles(say your troubles aren't that bad).

I took it as be thankful for what you have be it food, health, etc.

 

[danieldemol]

I think a lot of people want to believe that life is hopeless because it excuses them from having to take responsibility for anything.

This doesn't describe anyone I know *shrugs*

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It seems some people think that all we have to do is change our attitude to an (in my view delusional) attitude that childhood Leukemia is great. The sheep that slowly bleeds to death as it's eyes are pecked out by crows or has magggots slowly chew away at it's brain till it dies are great. The insect that gets eaten from the inside out by the larvae of the wasp are great etc etc.

To those who conclude that life is always great I say you appear to either be not very observant of the tremendous suffering that exists in nature or appear to be delusional about it in my view.

No, that is not how it works.
I am in pain due to something which I can't control.
Then I choose to worry and be sad because of that. The second part I can do something about.

In short, it is the second part there are different method to do something about and in effect some of them are Western, secular, non-religious and even science for a non-natural science version of science.
You can even learn to do something about how you feel pain.

 

[danieldemol]

No, that is not how it works.
I am in pain due to something which I can't control.
Then I choose to worry and be sad because of that. The second part I can do something about.

Worrying I agree is a choice, but I've never met anyone who was perpetually happy, and since I don't see any reason a person would just choose to be sad since it's not a pleasant emotion I assume that sadness is not a choice.

Here is what Psychology Today has to say about sadness;

'It is important however to make it clear that persistent sadness is a symptom of a depressive illness and not a mere personal choice. Most people don't choose to feel sad in order to avoid embracing life and all its challenges.'

Source: Why Sadness Sometimes Feels Safe

I'm not sure if by "Most people" they are implying that a minority of people do just choose to feel sad, but if most people don't caution at least seems advisable in assuming a person is choosing sadness in my view.

In short, it is the second part there are different method to do something about and in effect some of them are Western, secular, non-religious and even science for a non-natural science version of science.
You can even learn to do something about how you feel pain.

What can you do to feel pain differently apart from pain medication? I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Worrying I agree is a choice, but I've never met anyone who was perpetually happy, and since I don't see any reason a person would just choose to be sad since it's not a pleasant emotion I assume that sadness is not a choice.

Here is what Psychology Today has to say about sadness;

'It is important however to make it clear that persistent sadness is a symptom of a depressive illness and not a mere personal choice. Most people don't choose to feel sad in order to avoid embracing life and all its challenges.'

Source: Why Sadness Sometimes Feels Safe

I'm not sure if by "Most people" they are implying that a minority of people do just choose to feel sad, but if most people don't caution at least seems advisable in assuming a person is choosing sadness in my view.

What can you do to feel pain differently apart from pain medication? I'm not sure what you mean.

Well, try googling cognitive techniques for pain management.
In general modern cognitive science for the mental part is not that unlike some Eastern techniques.

 

[danieldemol]

Well, try googling cognitive techniques for pain management.
In general modern cognitive science for the mental part is not that unlike some Eastern techniques.

I googled a question approximately asking, "are cognitive techniques for pain management scientific" here is what I got;

'A systematic review of 60 randomized controlled trials found that CBT was effective in reducing pain intensity, improving function, and reducing disability in people with chronic pain.'

Source: Cognitive Behavioural Therapy

I honestly don't know about CBT because if they taught about it in school I must have been away that day.

But as long as doctors know about it I guess they can prescribe it as needed.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I googled a question approximately asking, "are cognitive techniques for pain management scientific" here is what I got;

'A systematic review of 60 randomized controlled trials found that CBT was effective in reducing pain intensity, improving function, and reducing disability in people with chronic pain.'

Source: Cognitive Behavioural Therapy

I honestly don't know about CBT because if they taught about it in school I must have been away that day.

But as long as doctors know about it I guess they can prescribe it as needed.

In general for what is with an old word called mental, some of the techiniques in religion are in effect not about religion as such, but rather that there is more to being a human that the objective, natural, physical and all that.
From there does'nt follow that you have to be relgious, just that in effect in a limited sense the subjective can work. That is all in short.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Many, many people believe that if they are good people, that God will bless and protect them, and that the wicked will be punished (in this life). This is true among Christians, Jews, and Muslims, and even just monotheists who have no particular organized religion. Certainly in the Bible, there are many places where it seems to indicate this. I'm not here to say that those passages don't exist.

My purpose here is to say that this is not a consistent teaching, that the Bible also teaches the reverse, that the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper, that essentially, we cannot depend upon God to protect or bless us, nor does he prevent those who are evil from coming out on top.

Ecclesiastes 7:15: "In this meaningless life of mine I have seen both of these: the righteous perishing in their righteousness, and the wicked living long in their wickedness."

Psalm 73:13-14 "Surely in vain I have kept my heart pure and have washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been afflicted, and every morning brings new punishments."

Habakkuk 1:2-4 "How long, Lord, must I call for help, but you do not listen? Or cry out to you, ‘Violence!’ but you do not save? Why do you make me look at injustice? Why do you tolerate wrongdoing? Destruction and violence are before me; there is strife, and conflict abounds. Therefore the law is paralyzed, and justice never prevails. The wicked hem in the righteous, so that justice is perverted."

Psalm 73:3-5: "For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from common human burdens; they are not plagued by human ills."

Job 21:7-13: "Why do the wicked live on, growing old and increasing in power? They see their children established around them, their offspring before their eyes. Their homes are safe and free from fear; the rod of God is not on them. Their bulls never fail to breed; their cows calve and do not miscarry. They send forth their children as a flock; their little ones dance about. They sing to the music of timbrel and lyre; they make merry to the sound of the pipe. They spend their years in prosperity and go down to the grave in peace."

Jeremiah 12:1: "You are always righteous, Lord, when I bring a case before you. Yet I would speak with you about your justice: Why does the way of the wicked prosper? Why do all the faithless live at ease?"

Scripture tells much of Man’s struggles and times of religious doubt and shows that it is not so that those of devout faith do not have these, but rather that life frequently tries their faith and trust [in God].

Christian scripture sees our world as ruined by [original] sin - Man was cast out from the Garden into harshness to learn from experience what God already knew (and had tried to spare Man from). Here, we shall face all there is to face and experience why we were told what we were told.

Scripture also speaks of what is rewarded on earth vs. what is of spiritual value as being opposed to each other. They who thrive in the world often do so through sin (at the expense of others). They are big and powerful here -a temporary state of being- but small and indifferent in God.

In my own life, it has become apparent that what I’ve not been able to understand through humility, I have had to learn from experience instead. It is a painful path, yet, I am so grateful for the teachings of life that it is hard for me to not call them blessings.

Humbly,
Hermit