• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The rise of idolatry in Judaism and Islam

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
I was in the library yesterday and I came upon an English translation of the "Kitāb al-ʾAṣnām" (the Book of Idols) by the Muslim scholar Hisham ibn al-Kalbi. Flicking through it, I came upon something very fascinating: A description of how idolatry came to be in the world. What struck me was that it was very similar to traditional Jewish descriptions of how idolatry came to the world:

The Talmud (Shabbat 118b) writes:

"Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: With regard to anyone who observes Shabbat in accordance with its halakhot, even if he worships idolatry as in the generation of Enosh."​

Midrash Tanchuma Noach 18 writes:

"When the generation of Enoch called their idols by the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, as it is said: "Then began men to call by the name of the Lord" (Gen. 4:26)"​

Lastly, Maimonides wrote (Hilchot Avodat Kochavim 1:1-2):

"During the times of Enosh, mankind made a great mistake, and the wise men of that generation gave thoughtless counsel. Enosh himself was one of those who erred. Their mistake was as follows: They said God created stars and spheres with which to control the world. He placed them on high and treated them with honor, making them servants who minister before Him. Accordingly, it is fitting to praise and glorify them and to treat them with honor. [They perceived] this to be the will of God, blessed be He, that they magnify and honor those whom He magnified and honored, just as a king desires that the servants who stand before him be honored. Indeed, doing so is an expression of honor to the king. After conceiving of this notion, they began to construct temples to the stars and offer sacrifices to them. They would praise and glorify them with words, and prostrate themselves before them, because by doing so, they would - according to their false conception - be fulfilling the will of God. This was the essence of the worship of false gods, and this was the rationale of those who worshiped them. They would not say that there is no other god except for this star. [...]​

In the long process of time, there arose among the sons of man false prophets, who asserted that God commanded them saying: "Worship yon star, or all of the stars, and offer sacrifices to it, and compound for it thus and such, and erect a temple for it, and hew its image so that all of the people, women and children and the rest of the populace included, bow down to it". He, moreover, describes for them a form which he invented and tells them that this was the image of yon star which was pointed out to him in his prophecy. In this manner they commenced to draw images in temples, beneath trees, upon mountain-tops and elevated places, where they congregated to bow down to them and sermonize to the people, saying: "This image has it in its power to do good and evil, and it is proper to worship it, and be in awe of it." Etc."​

To summarize, we find that according to Jewish tradition, idolatry began in the time of Enosh, and spread gradually. First they thought it was proper to honor the stars, which are the servants of God. Then they thought to build them temples and worship them, along with their worship of God. Finally, they forgot God and only worshiped idols.

Note: It is commonly thought that Maimonides had sources for everything he wrote. We must take into account the possibility that his very detailed explanation of the process was based on sources now lost. As presented above, parts of this tradition appeared in other, older Jewish sources.

Now, interestingly, in the Book of Idols (translated by Nabih Amin Faris, pp. 44-45), a similar process is described:

"I was told by al-Hasan ibn-TJlayl on the authority of ‘Ali ibn-al-Çabbâh that abu-al-Mundhir related on the authority of his father the following: W add, Suwä‘, Yaghüth, Ya‘üq, and Nasr were righteous people who died within one month of one another, and their relatives were grief-stricken over them. Then one of the children of Cain addressed their relatives saying, “ O ye who are bereaved! Shall I make unto you five statues after the image of your departed relatives? I can readily do that, although I cannot impart life to them.” Thereupon he carved unto them five statues after the image of [their departed relatives], and erected them [over their graves]. Then it came to pass that a relative would visit [the grave of] his brother, uncle, or cousin, whatever the case might be, pay his respect to it, and walk around the statue for a while. This practice lasted throughout the first century [following the death of those five persons]. The statues were made during the time of Jared (Yärid), the son of Mahaleel (Mahlä’il), the son of Cainan (Qïnân) the son of Enos (Anüsh), the son of Seth the son of Adam.​

Another century followed during which people venerated and respected those statues more than they did during the first century. Then a third century followed, and the people said, “Our forefathers venerated these statues for no other reason than the desire to enjoy their intercession before God.“ Consequently they worshipped them, and became far gone in disbelief. Thereupon God sent unto them the prophet Idris, who is Enoch (Akhnükh) the son of Jared the son of Mahaleel the son of Cainan. Idris called upon the people to repent and warned them, but they believed him not and hearkened not unto his voice. Therefore God “uplifted him to a place on high.” Etc."​

To summarize, we find that according to Muslim or Arab tradition (Abu-Mundhir's father apparently lived before Muhammad), idolatry began in the time of Yared (a decendant of Enosh), and spread gradually. First they honored righteous people by erecting statues of them, then they worshiped them as servants of God, and finally they stopped worshiping God.

To me it seems very likely that Abu-Mundhir's father heard some form of the Jewish tradition of the spread of idolatry from the Jews of Medina, where he lived. As for differences between the sources - either the local Jews had a different version, or the passage of time mangled the tradition, or a combination of the two.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I was in the library yesterday and I came upon an English translation of the "Kitāb al-ʾAṣnām" (the Book of Idols) by the Muslim scholar Hisham ibn al-Kalbi. Flicking through it, I came upon something very fascinating: A description of how idolatry came to be in the world. What struck me was that it was very similar to traditional Jewish descriptions of how idolatry came to the world:

The Talmud (Shabbat 118b) writes:

"Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: With regard to anyone who observes Shabbat in accordance with its halakhot, even if he worships idolatry as in the generation of Enosh."​

Midrash Tanchuma Noach 18 writes:

"When the generation of Enoch called their idols by the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, as it is said: "Then began men to call by the name of the Lord" (Gen. 4:26)"​

Lastly, Maimonides wrote (Hilchot Avodat Kochavim 1:1-2):

"During the times of Enosh, mankind made a great mistake, and the wise men of that generation gave thoughtless counsel. Enosh himself was one of those who erred. Their mistake was as follows: They said God created stars and spheres with which to control the world. He placed them on high and treated them with honor, making them servants who minister before Him. Accordingly, it is fitting to praise and glorify them and to treat them with honor. [They perceived] this to be the will of God, blessed be He, that they magnify and honor those whom He magnified and honored, just as a king desires that the servants who stand before him be honored. Indeed, doing so is an expression of honor to the king. After conceiving of this notion, they began to construct temples to the stars and offer sacrifices to them. They would praise and glorify them with words, and prostrate themselves before them, because by doing so, they would - according to their false conception - be fulfilling the will of God. This was the essence of the worship of false gods, and this was the rationale of those who worshiped them. They would not say that there is no other god except for this star. [...]​

In the long process of time, there arose among the sons of man false prophets, who asserted that God commanded them saying: "Worship yon star, or all of the stars, and offer sacrifices to it, and compound for it thus and such, and erect a temple for it, and hew its image so that all of the people, women and children and the rest of the populace included, bow down to it". He, moreover, describes for them a form which he invented and tells them that this was the image of yon star which was pointed out to him in his prophecy. In this manner they commenced to draw images in temples, beneath trees, upon mountain-tops and elevated places, where they congregated to bow down to them and sermonize to the people, saying: "This image has it in its power to do good and evil, and it is proper to worship it, and be in awe of it." Etc."​

To summarize, we find that according to Jewish tradition, idolatry began in the time of Enosh, and spread gradually. First they thought it was proper to honor the stars, which are the servants of God. Then they thought to build them temples and worship them, along with their worship of God. Finally, they forgot God and only worshiped idols.

Note: It is commonly thought that Maimonides had sources for everything he wrote. We must take into account the possibility that his very detailed explanation of the process was based on sources now lost. As presented above, parts of this tradition appeared in other, older Jewish sources.

Now, interestingly, in the Book of Idols (translated by Nabih Amin Faris, pp. 44-45), a similar process is described:

"I was told by al-Hasan ibn-TJlayl on the authority of ‘Ali ibn-al-Çabbâh that abu-al-Mundhir related on the authority of his father the following: W add, Suwä‘, Yaghüth, Ya‘üq, and Nasr were righteous people who died within one month of one another, and their relatives were grief-stricken over them. Then one of the children of Cain addressed their relatives saying, “ O ye who are bereaved! Shall I make unto you five statues after the image of your departed relatives? I can readily do that, although I cannot impart life to them.” Thereupon he carved unto them five statues after the image of [their departed relatives], and erected them [over their graves]. Then it came to pass that a relative would visit [the grave of] his brother, uncle, or cousin, whatever the case might be, pay his respect to it, and walk around the statue for a while. This practice lasted throughout the first century [following the death of those five persons]. The statues were made during the time of Jared (Yärid), the son of Mahaleel (Mahlä’il), the son of Cainan (Qïnân) the son of Enos (Anüsh), the son of Seth the son of Adam.​

Another century followed during which people venerated and respected those statues more than they did during the first century. Then a third century followed, and the people said, “Our forefathers venerated these statues for no other reason than the desire to enjoy their intercession before God.“ Consequently they worshipped them, and became far gone in disbelief. Thereupon God sent unto them the prophet Idris, who is Enoch (Akhnükh) the son of Jared the son of Mahaleel the son of Cainan. Idris called upon the people to repent and warned them, but they believed him not and hearkened not unto his voice. Therefore God “uplifted him to a place on high.” Etc."​

To summarize, we find that according to Muslim or Arab tradition (Abu-Mundhir's father apparently lived before Muhammad), idolatry began in the time of Yared (a decendant of Enosh), and spread gradually. First they honored righteous people by erecting statues of them, then they worshiped them as servants of God, and finally they stopped worshiping God.

To me it seems very likely that Abu-Mundhir's father heard some form of the Jewish tradition of the spread of idolatry from the Jews of Medina, where he lived. As for differences between the sources - either the local Jews had a different version, or the passage of time mangled the tradition, or a combination of the two.
This is very interesting. It comes as no surprise to find Islam has adopted, in altered form, a Jewish tradition, since it arose in part from ideas in Judaism.

What I find interesting, as a newcomer to all this, is the Jewish account of how worship (if that is what it was) of heavenly bodies was thought to have arisen. Whereas we now tend to think this form of religion arose long before monotheism, evidently the authors of this tradition constructed a narrative of progressive corruption of an original ideal state. I suppose this fits with linking the history of all people back to the Genesis story. Intriguing.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
This is very interesting. It comes as no surprise to find Islam has adopted, in altered form, a Jewish tradition, since it arose in part from ideas in Judaism.

What I find interesting, as a newcomer to all this, is the Jewish account of how worship (if that is what it was) of heavenly bodies was thought to have arisen. Whereas we now tend to think this form of religion arose long before monotheism, evidently the authors of this tradition constructed a narrative of progressive corruption of an original ideal state. I suppose this fits with linking the history of all people back to the Genesis story. Intriguing.
It is, and it puts a twist on the way Abraham is commonly described nowadays, as "the first monotheist". Many Jewish sources assert that he was not the first monotheist. The ones brought above are just a few examples. His greatness was different, according to Judaism.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
That post looks familiar to me.
Do you remember the name of the book?
A History of God.

Beware though, it's by Karen Armstrong and she is sometimes known to present things in a more positive and perhaps slightly liberal light.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
I once did a paper on this issue, specifically the Rambam's statements in the Mishnah Torah and the Moreh Nevuchim. Because of the fact that the Hebrew word (אלהים) and I can imagine the root from which the Arabic word (الله) don't really mean what the word "god" means English I would have to say that the western perspective has to be removed to really do this topic any justice. That being said, the below is some of the findings I had.

upload_2022-3-15_14-29-31.png


upload_2022-3-15_14-30-25.png


upload_2022-3-15_14-42-47.png


upload_2022-3-15_14-43-18.png

upload_2022-3-15_14-43-47.png
 
Last edited:

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Idolatry is a natural affect from the human brain, that can be understood by considering art. A good work of art can make you feel something, whether good or bad. Good art will trigger unconscious processes, even if the art and induction is initially censored the ego. One can try to stay rational, but good art can trigger emotions, and even cause the brain to drift off into space. The net affect is a secondary affect from the brain, connected to the unconscious, becomes active, apart from the ego or conscious mind.

The Golden Calf of the time of Moses, was a beautiful work of art, overlaid in gold, that could trigger subjectivity, even with the ego trying to enforce religious self censorship. Since this appeared as a secondary affect apart from the will of the ego, and knowledge of the unconscious was no yet known, it was projected outward, instilling the golden calf with a type of life of its own; it had an inner god that you felt.

This is more subtle than an hallucination projection. If someone was on mushrooms or LSD, and they saw you with wings; movie of the imagination that is projected to overlay you with wings, you would appear like a beast; half man and half animal in their minds. In the case of the art induction, there is no visual overlay. The overlay is done more with induced emotions, subjectivity and imagination. God was insistent that these were not Gods, but a trippy mind induction.

The Catholic Church is known for its Churches being full of art; sculpture, relief drawings, paintings, murals and stain glass, connected to the life of Jesus as told in the New Testament. This art has an impact on you, as you sit and look around, since it is often based on copies of some the world finest art.

It will impact emotions, but one is taught to keep your eye on the Jesus ball via Church teachings. They serve as an ambiance and emotional backdrop, for your deeper thoughts. This is not the same as the golden calf, which was assume to be a self contained god. The golden calf is much closer to fad induction in the free market that enhances merchandise with collective expectations. It could be the new car being pitched as a babe magnetic; magic car. Cars can be a work of art. Atheism is more likely to use idolatry as a way to manipulate. Religions understand idolatry better and tend to use this affect as a backdrop for spiritual and emotional ambiance.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Idolatry is a natural affect from the human brain, that can be understood by considering art. A good work of art can make you feel something, whether good or bad. Good art will trigger unconscious processes, even if the art and induction is initially censored the ego. One can try to stay rational, but good art can trigger emotions, and even cause the brain to drift off into space. The net affect is a secondary affect from the brain, connected to the unconscious, becomes active, apart from the ego or conscious mind.

The Golden Calf of the time of Moses, was a beautiful work of art, overlaid in gold, that could trigger subjectivity, even with the ego trying to enforce religious self censorship. Since this appeared as a secondary affect apart from the will of the ego, and knowledge of the unconscious was no yet known, it was projected outward, instilling the golden calf with a type of life of its own; it had an inner god that you felt.

This is more subtle than an hallucination projection. If someone was on mushrooms or LSD, and they saw you with wings; movie of the imagination that is projected to overlay you with wings, you would appear like a beast; half man and half animal in their minds. In the case of the art induction, there is no visual overlay. The overlay is done more with induced emotions, subjectivity and imagination. God was insistent that these were not Gods, but a trippy mind induction.

The Catholic Church is known for its Churches being full of art; sculpture, relief drawings, paintings, murals and stain glass, connected to the life of Jesus as told in the New Testament. This art has an impact on you, as you sit and look around, since it is often based on copies of some the world finest art.

It will impact emotions, but one is taught to keep your eye on the Jesus ball via Church teachings. They serve as an ambiance and emotional backdrop, for your deeper thoughts. This is not the same as the golden calf, which was assume to be a self contained god. The golden calf is much closer to fad induction in the free market that enhances merchandise with collective expectations. It could be the new car being pitched as a babe magnetic; magic car. Cars can be a work of art. Atheism is more likely to use idolatry as a way to manipulate. Religions understand idolatry better and tend to use this affect as a backdrop for spiritual and emotional ambiance.
I am not really sure what this has to do with the thread topic. The discussion here is about idolatry from Jewish and Islamic perspectives. You appear to be interested in adding Christianity to the thread, but that is not the topic here.
 

Eyes to See

Well-Known Member
Interesting information. With regards to Genesis 4:25 "There was also born to Seth a son, and he named him Eʹnosh.n At that time people began calling on the name of Jehovah," the Biblical Encyclopedia Insight on the Scriptures says:

"This was evidently not a calling on Jehovah in faith and pure worship as Abel had done more than 105 years before Enosh’s birth. Some Hebrew scholars contend that the text should read “began profanely,” or “then profanation began.” With reference to Enosh’s day the Jerusalem Targum says: “That was the generation in whose days they began to err, and to make themselves idols, and surnamed their idols by the name of the Word of the Lord.” Men may have applied Jehovah’s name to themselves or to other men through whom they pretended to approach God in worship; or else they applied his name to idol objects."

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001372?q=enosh&p=doc

The famous Rashi (Rabbi Shelomoh Yitschaki, of 1040-1105 C.E.) renders Genesis 4:26: “Then was the profane called by the Name of the Lord.” That is to say, men and inanimate objects had attributed to them the qualities of Jehovah and were called accordingly. This would mean that idolatry in the name of Jehovah began then.
 
Top