The rules for leaving Islam and life after Islam -

[currypowder]

The rules for leaving Islam and life after Islam - explained

Thre isa only one rule - accrding to the Islamic teachings you must die, i will prove please read below

I will explain what i understand from each versus but i would really like a well balance response on this- let’s begin

(Sahih Bukhari 4.260)
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people [hypocrites] and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

its pretty cut and dried -

Bukhari9,83,17
Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."


so this verse below says you can only kill a Muslim in 3 cases , when he murders - if a Muslim cheats on there partner and when a Muslim leaves Islam - pretty clear there

YUSUFALI: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

Reneges defention - deserter: a disloyal person who betrays or deserts his cause or religion or political party or friend etc.

slay them - pretty clear from the above verse, some say this is in time of war - does not matter when it is this as about leaving islam not war

So, Muslims are free to investigate the truth of other religions only though Islamic sources and at the end they MUST accept Islam as or face death. They are not allowed to own or read a Bible or the sacred books of other religions. They are free to investigate these religions by asking about them from their Imams.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

this verse seems totally flawed and you can see that by the fact your are not allowed to own a bible in Saudi or if you do you will be in very big trouble , so which verse in the Quran do you believe and life by ?, i would say that verse (Quran 2:256) was put in there to offset all the other versus that talk about leaving Islam and being killed if you do , it seems to me there can be only one conclusion Islam teaches if you want to leave you must die - thats disgusting -but also a clever way to make sure the relgion always grows and gets bigger

please please dont use the argument that Islam is a very serious descion you make so on and on......utter and total rubbish .....you should be free to choose any religion and leave it if you want , and leave it for God to deal with you in the afterlife .I would love a reply on this I cant see any way to defend but eagerly look forward to the reply……..peace and many thanks

NOTE:This is not Islam bashing - many people want to know why tehre is so much Islam basign now days - that becasue more peple have had the chance to study the quran in english and see waht it really has to say instead of relying on the imam for information, imo

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

You gotta problem with that?

Are you a muslim? Anyone who converts knows such a thing, and they convert nevertheless, so whats your problem?


And for your info, in Morroco for example they dont kill anyone anymore ( not do I say that I agree with it), so you can have your mind in peace that whoever is sticking to Islam in here is not doing it for fear of death, so dont worry.

 

[currypowder]

You gotta problem with that?

Are you a muslim? Anyone who converts knows such a thing, and they convert nevertheless, so whats your problem?


And for your info, in Morroco for example they dont kill anyone anymore ( not do I say that I agree with it), so you can have your mind in peace that whoever is sticking to Islam in here is not doing it for fear of death, so dont worry.

yes i have a major major problem with that ,why is that ok with you ?, cause the rest of humanity disagress, lets look at why you will be killed clearly to ensure growth ,

 

[Cypress]

And for your info, in Morroco for example they dont kill anyone anymore ( not do I say that I agree with it),

What do you mean?
Do you support killing of people who leave Islam?

 

[currypowder]

You gotta problem with that?

Are you a muslim? Anyone who converts knows such a thing, and they convert nevertheless, so whats your problem?


And for your info, in Morroco for example they dont kill anyone anymore ( not do I say that I agree with it), so you can have your mind in peace that whoever is sticking to Islam in here is not doing it for fear of death, so dont worry.

i see when hard questions are asked - the muslims disapper

 

[xkatz]

In terms of historical context, leaving Islam was equivalent to treason. So that is probably why they kill(ed) apostates. However, I don't think this is a healthy practice to continue IMO. While Muhammad is the prophet of Islam, he is still ultimately human and he can make human errors in judgement.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Theres no hard question, What was the question first?!

You stated facts about Islam killing people living who leave it, and I approved.

Ahhh I guess you wanted me to tell you that, Noo you didnt understand it right, it mustnt be read literally?

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

What do you mean?
Do you support killing of people who leave Islam?

I support Islam and all its teachings , yes

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

In terms of historical context, leaving Islam was equivalent to treason. So that is probably why they killed apostates. However, I don't think this is a healthy practice to continue IMO. While Muhammad is the prophet of Islam, he is still ultimately human and he can make human errors in judgement.

We all know he pbuh was a human, but for a Muslim his rulings were from God so no he doesnt make errors in judgments for us

Allah says in Quran:

3. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.4. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.




Is he a prophet or not, then that is a whole other question.

 

[currypowder]

Theres no hard question, What was the question first?!

You stated facts about Islam killing people living who leave it, and I approved.

Ahhh I guess you wanted me to tell you that, Noo you didnt understand it right, it mustnt be read literally?

ohhh a muslim that approves of killing people when they dont share your views wonfderfull - a honest muslim - rare - well the fact you admit that shows alot about islam , i can argue with someone who condoes killing for no reason

why do think someone should be killed if they dont share your views?

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

i can argue with someone who condoes killing for no reason

So, what do you want to argue about?

"For no reason" is a term you added from your own perspective, because in my own perspective it doesnt say so.

ohhh a muslim that approves of killing people when they dont share your views wonfderfull

I dont care about my views, I care about what Islam teaches. My views has nothing to do with it at all.

 

[Venatoris]

I dont care about my views, I care about what Islam teaches. My views has nothing to do with it at all.

So you really don't think for yourself when it comes to any facet of your religion?

 

[LuisDantas]

Being an atheist, I realized long ago that when we point out some of the most questionable teachings of the Bible to Christians we are in effect criticizing them for not being fundamentalist enough.

Trouble is, that is not something that either atheists or Christians have a good reason to demand. If any Christians dare to be more enlightened than it would technically be allowed or demanded of them by their scripture, more power to them. I sure don't see the benefits of pressuring Christians into being more close-minded.

While the Quran is even more important to Islam than the Bible is to Christianity, I find the same logic to apply. We shall not chastise Muslims for daring to be sensible and reasonable, for they might feel tempted to give up on the effort and pay us on kind instead.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

So you really don't think for yourself when it comes to any facet of your religion?

I accept them THEN I think about them and find the wisdom behind it, thats what we call submission ( Islam),

why do think someone should be killed if they dont share your views?

1. Islam says so
2. As xkatz stated, its considered a treason.

During wars, if a citizen of a country betrays it and tell the war secrets to the enmy, does he get killed? Yes, he didnt just " share the same views" with the country, he betrayed it.

Islam is more precious than any war secrets, whoever accepts it must be sure he wont leave it. You should think about it way before accepting it, and still, hundreds of people converts everyday.

Now , if you're willing to convert, then you should think about it. If you're not, than whats the purpose of it? Ive learnt in my religion not to discuss until theres a benefit behind it, useless debates are very disliken in Islam. So precise the goal and if its a logical one, we'll continue discussing this issue Inshallah.

 

[LuisDantas]

Theres no hard question, What was the question first?!

You stated facts about Islam killing people living who leave it, and I approved.

Ahhh I guess you wanted me to tell you that, Noo you didnt understand it right, it mustnt be read literally?

Well, the question does present itself. Is it literally true that a good Muslim should attempt to kill those who leave Islam? If so, under which circunstances exactly?

I am inclined to believe that xkatz is at least partially correct, and that the historical context of the time of Mohammed factors heavily into the meaning and interpretation of those verses. Among other reasons, because I think better of today's Muslims than to expect them to be so generally obtuse and heartless.

Still, as far as I know the scripture does indeed technically demand them to. I praise the good will and discernment of the many Muslims who know better than to blindly follow such a commandment, but I am less certain that the commandment is being misrepresented or misinterpreted in the first place.

We all know he pbuh was a human, but for a Muslim his rulings were from God so no he doesnt make errors in judgments for us

Allah says in Quran:

3. Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.4. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

Is he a prophet or not, then that is a whole other question.

Is it possible to have doubt on whether Mohammed was a prophet while still being a Muslim? I would think not.

I do, however, believe and hope that most Muslims will at some level know and accept that to some degree everyone is a prophet, and entitled to make their own moral choices and judgements for the very simple reason that we ultimately have no choice.

It may be a hard idea to present to the adherents of a doctrine that makes a point of naming itself after the word for "Submission (to God's Will)", but I stand by it anyway.

 

[currypowder]

I accept them THEN I think about them and find the wisdom behind it, thats what we call submission ( Islam),



1. Islam says so
2. As xkatz stated, its considered a treason.

During wars, if a citizen of a country betrays it and tell the war secrets to the enmy, does he get killed? Yes, he didnt just " share the same views" with the country, he betrayed it.

Islam is more precious than any war secrets, whoever accepts it must be sure he wont leave it. You should think about it way before accepting it, and still, hundreds of people converts everyday.

Now , if you're willing to convert, then you should think about it. If you're not, than whats the purpose of it? Ive learnt in my religion not to discuss until theres a benefit behind it, useless debates are very disliken in Islam. So precise the goal and if its a logical one, we'll continue discussing this issue Inshallah.

Islam says so - hahahaahahah brilliant thaTS A TYPICAL MUSLIM response , if imam says its ok , it must be no question , so what , if he left he was never a muslim , so why kill him if he was never a true muslim, wake up brother , really , why dont you think for ur self

 

[currypowder]

Well, the question does present itself. Is it literally true that a good Muslim should attempt to kill those who leave Islam? If so, under which circunstances exactly?

I am inclined to believe that xkatz is at least partially correct, and that the historical context of the time of Mohammed factors heavily into the meaning and interpretation of those verses. Among other reasons, because I think better of today's Muslims than to expect them to be so generally obtuse and heartless.

Still, as far as I know the scripture does indeed technically demand them to. I praise the good will and discernment of the many Muslims who know better than to blindly follow such a commandment, but I am less certain that the commandment is being misrepresented or misinterpreted in the first place.



Is it possible to have doubt on whether Mohammed was a prophet while still being a Muslim? I would think not.

I do, however, believe and hope that most Muslims will at some level know and accept that to some degree everyone is a prophet, and entitled to make their own moral choices and judgements for the very simple reason that we ultimately have no choice.

It may be a hard idea to present to the adherents of a doctrine that makes a point of naming itself after the word for "Submission (to God's Will)", but I stand by it anyway.

Still, as far as I know the scripture does indeed technically demand them to. - that incorrect it does - read my orginal post

 

[Revoltingest]

Theres no hard question, What was the question first?!
You stated facts about Islam killing people living who leave it, and I approved.
Ahhh I guess you wanted me to tell you that, Noo you didnt understand it right, it mustnt be read literally?

I think you're meeting additional questions because your posts have been rather glib
regarding the astounding position that rejecting Islam warrants death. We'd like to
see someone elaborate on all facets of the execution of former Muslims.

Question: When people join Islam, are they warned that if they later change their mind,
that they should be put to death for it? And if they aren't killed, is this a sin in Islam?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I accept them THEN I think about them and find the wisdom behind it, thats what we call submission ( Islam),



1. Islam says so
2. As xkatz stated, its considered a treason.

Yikes. :cover:

 

[LuisDantas]

I accept them THEN I think about them and find the wisdom behind it, thats what we call submission ( Islam),



1. Islam says so
2. As xkatz stated, its considered a treason.

It is still? I know of a Muslim woman who converted to Christianity, IIRC to ease up her marriage to a Christian man. Is that considered treason, regardless of other facts or circunstances? Are Muslims duty-bound to kill her?

Or maybe she is not really a traitor, perhaps at least in part because Christianity is a Faith of the Book? Or better yet, because she is not actually betraying anybody?

During wars, if a citizen of a country betrays it and tell the war secrets to the enmy, does he get killed? Yes, he didnt just " share the same views" with the country, he betrayed it.

Islam is more precious than any war secrets, whoever accepts it must be sure he wont leave it. You should think about it way before accepting it, and still, hundreds of people converts everyday.

Maybe they wouldn't if they expected to be killed if they change their hearts and minds about Islam. Why should love and faith be considered warlike activities anyway? I can see it under some circunstances, but certainly not in most.

Now , if you're willing to convert, then you should think about it. If you're not, than whats the purpose of it?

Learning to love God's message and to express it alongside fellow Muslims, I would assume. Then again, there are also social aspects that are not to be despised. The warmth and support of a community of fellow believers is a very real and often precious gift.

Ive learnt in my religion not to discuss until theres a benefit behind it, useless debates are very disliken in Islam. So precise the goal and if its a logical one, we'll continue discussing this issue Inshallah.

Hopefully we have reached a clearer goal by now.