The 'Scripture' Syndrome

[12jtartar]

It's hard to imagine a better example of intellectally vapid circular reasoning.

Jayhawker Soule,
To any person that has only a nodding acquaintance with the Holy Scriptures, or Terra Incognita, I would not blame them thinking that way. When you speak about Jehovah God, the personal name of God Almighty, understanding that His name means; He Causes to Become. No person spirit or flesh can rightly carry that name, because only Jehovah can cause everything to become exactly as He wants them to become.
I trust implicitly in Him because He has proven over all the years of mankind, that He prophesies and brings to fulfillment, all His prophecies, long range and short range. No other person in existence can do that!!!
From what I have learned, over 50 years of study, is only sciolists have the nerve to disagree with the Bible, because so many have done so in the past, and have invariably been made to eat crow, Rom 1:17-25, 1Cor 1:19-30.
Critics of God's word have been discarded into the trash can of history, their names, either forgotten or remembered for the fools they were made, who denies The Almighty God's word.

 

[metis]

Metis,
The Hebrew Scriptures existed when Paul wrote that all scripture was inspired by God, 2Tim 3:16,17. Jesus used the Hebrew Scriptures and Jesus said; Your words are truth, John 17:17. Peter also wrote about Bible Scripture, 2Pet 1:20,21.
God Himself wrote, that all scripture is pure, refined as silver refined in a furnace 7 times, He also said that He would protect His sayings from that generation, forever. That would include The Greek Scriptures, after all the Greek Scriptures sum up many of the things started in the Hebrew Scriptures.
The Apostles made sure that every Christian, in the first century, and until now, knows what books are true and were inspired by God. There were many books, but only 66 that made up the Bible Canon were inspired by God Almighty.
God is fair in all His judgments, Deut 32:3,4, Job 34:11,12. If God did not keep His word, The Bible accurate, how could God judge the world?? Rom 3:5,6.

The Jewish canon was not decided on until much later, although the Pentateuch had been. The books that eventually became part of the Tanakh later were typically more viewed as history and commentary than scripture.

The Christian canon was not decided upon until the 4th century c.e., as different books were being used by different local churches, so Constantine order that the canon be selected. Most potential books were discarded, some were easily selected, and there were some that were hotly debated but eventually accepted, especially Hebrews and Revelations. No decision was made on the Apocrypha, so they were kept in a bit of a "limbo" state.

The concept that the apostles somehow selected the books is entirely wrong as most books now in the canon had rather late writings, plus there's not one indication they selected any particular book or books as scripture. Paul's writings were cherished, no doubt, but they were not considered scripture at that time, and three of the four gospels were written when most of the apostles were dead or dispersed.

Nor did God somehow select the Bible because if he did that would involve Him arguing with himself since the discussion and selection was not at all easy. Nor is the Bible "perfect" in any way as many narratives on the same themes vary.

 

[12jtartar]

The Jewish canon was not decided on until much later, although the Pentateuch had been. The books that eventually became part of the Tanakh later were typically more viewed as history and commentary than scripture.

The Christian canon was not decided upon until the 4th century c.e., as different books were being used by different local churches, so Constantine order that the canon be selected. Most potential books were discarded, some were easily selected, and there were some that were hotly debated but eventually accepted, especially Hebrews and Revelations. No decision was made on the Apocrypha, so they were kept in a bit of a "limbo" state.

The concept that the apostles somehow selected the books is entirely wrong as most books now in the canon had rather late writings, plus there's not one indication they selected any particular book or books as scripture. Paul's writings were cherished, no doubt, but they were not considered scripture at that time, and three of the four gospels were written when most of the apostles were dead or dispersed.

Nor did God somehow select the Bible because if he did that would involve Him arguing with himself since the discussion and selection was not at all easy. Nor is the Bible "perfect" in any way as many narratives on the same themes vary.

Metis,
What you have said shows me that you do not have respect for the Apostles of the first century. All the Apostles were recognized as the Authority over any Christian Doctrine. They also had the authority to select the writings that would make up God's Word. All Christians knew which books were inspired and which were not.
If you claim to be a Christian, and have respect for a the Almighty, you will except God's promise to protect His word, Ps 12:6,7. If not I use what Jesus said when the Romans were nailing him to the tree, forgive him Father, because he does not know what he is saying, Luke 23:34.

 

[Flankerl]

-----==== BREAKING NEWS ====-----

THIS JUST IN: Jews don't believe in Christianity

More on this developing story soon

 

[metis]

Metis,
What you have said shows me that you do not have respect for the Apostles of the first century. All the Apostles were recognized as the Authority over any Christian Doctrine. They also had the authority to select the writings that would make up God's Word. All Christians knew which books were inspired and which were not.
If you claim to be a Christian, and have respect for a the Almighty, you will except God's promise to protect His word, Ps 12:6,7. If not I use what Jesus said when the Romans were nailing him to the tree, forgive him Father, because he does not know what he is saying, Luke 23:34.

The apostles did not select the writings as the Christian canon didn't become fixed until the 4th century, and there was a great deal of controversy as to which books should be in it. There are a fair number of books available dealing with how your Bible got selected written by respectable theologians that work through objective research and history rather than spouting a "company line".

Also, the mark of the early church was not which writings one may follow but was instead the issue of whom the apostles appointed in a process called "apostolic succession".

Finally, I'm not Christian, but I have no disrespect for the apostles as they taught what they believed. There is not a single statement found in the Christian scriptures whereas an apostle states which books should be part of the canon, and we know from historical records that the 2nd through the 4th century church fought tooth and nail over which books should be used.

The Wiki article is half-way decent on this at least, so you might want to check this out: New Testament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sojourner]

Why should the label 'scripture' confer on a text unchallenged (and unchallengeable) authority despite the fact that there is very often little or no certainty as to who wrote the text or when?

I don't think the texts are largely unchallengeable or unchallenged. Jesus weighed the texts, and so do we. We don't just take them at face value.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jesus weighed the texts, ...

According to what authority? Some anonymous apologist deemed authoritative because his resulting works are now deemed scripture?

 

[sojourner]

According to what authority? Some anonymous apologist deemed authoritative because his resulting works are now deemed scripture?

Authority has to rest somewhere. The texts do portray Jesus doing that. But there are other precedents. The Judaic religious authorities also do that in Talmud. Rabbis continue to do that -- as well as theologians and exegetes. IOW, there's a long history of people weighing the texts.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

According to what authority? Some anonymous apologist deemed authoritative because his resulting works are now deemed scripture?

Authority has to rest somewhere.

Was that a 'YES'?

 

[sojourner]

Was that a 'YES'?

The very same thing could be said of the Hebrew texts.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The very same thing could be said of the Hebrew texts.

Of course. There was nothing in the OP to suggest otherwise. Your point? That Christian circular reasoning is justified because some Jews do the same thing?

 

[sojourner]

Of course. There was nothing in the OP to suggest otherwise. Your point? That Christian circular reasoning is justified because some Jews do the same thing?

Circular reasoning? Not following you here. How is it circular reasoning to note an activity that's been going on across cultures for a long, long time?

 

[metis]

I can't remember which Jewish theologian it was, but he said that Jews during the Second Temple period tended to look at the books written during the First Temple period more as history than as scripture.