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The Search For Truth

nPeace

Veteran Member
Actually none.
The Bible says the universe had a beginning. (Genesis 1:1)
The Bible says the earth is suspended in empty space. (Job 26:7)
The Bible says rivers and springs are fed by water that has evaporated from the oceans and other sources and then has fallen back to earth as rain, snow, or hail. (Job 36:27, 28; Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10; Amos 9:6)
...and more.

Nothing mentioned in the OP indicates the Bible has anything to do with science.
Has anything to do with science? Whatever does that mean?

Quarantine is an ancient concept. Many Bible passages cite a 7-day isolation for leprosy (Hansen's disease), for example. But the formalized use of quarantine in more modern times traces back to the 1300s in Mediterranean port cities. “Since the fourteenth century, quarantine has been the cornerstone of a coordinated disease-control strategy,” writes medical historian Eugenia Tognotti of the University of Sassari, in Italy, in a 2013 issue of Emerging Infectious Diseases.

Scientists are looking for vaccines or treatments to combat Ebola virus, but quarantine is still the most effective way to stop its spread.

Evidently whatever it is, you are saying, is false.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The Bible says the universe had a beginning. (Genesis 1:1)

Science does not consider our universe or our physical existence has a beginning. All the expansion theories concerning our particular universe is based the universe beginning as a singularity in a greater Quantum existence. The current theory of a boundless universe is based on a universe without a beginning. Ultimately it cannot likelly be determined that our physical existence is eternal or finite, or
The Bible says the earth is suspended in empty space. (Job 26:7)

Not remotely significant. Odd, also the says the earth is flat and the center of the universe.
The Bible says rivers and springs are fed by water that has evaporated from the oceans and other sources and then has fallen back to earth as rain, snow, or hail. (Job 36:27, 28; Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10; Amos 9:6)
...and more.

Everybody could see that without science since time humans became humans
Has anything to do with science? Whatever does that mean?

None of the above has much to do with science. They are simply incomplete citations about some statements that are meaningless concerning science.

Noah's flood is outrageous mythology concerning being in touch with anything to do with what is known today about the earth;. According to the bible the earth and all physical Creation is no more than 6-10 thousand years old. In contemporary science, the earth is over 4,5 billion years. Our universe is at least 13.7 to 13.8 years old since the beginning of the expansion.
Quarantine is an ancient concept. Many Bible passages cite a 7-day isolation for leprosy (Hansen's disease), for example. But the formalized use of quarantine in more modern times traces back to the 1300s in Mediterranean port cities. “Since the fourteenth century, quarantine has been the cornerstone of a coordinated disease-control strategy,” writes medical historian Eugenia Tognotti of the University of Sassari, in Italy, in a 2013 issue of Emerging Infectious Diseases.

Scientists are looking for vaccines or treatments to combat Ebola virus, but quarantine is still the most effective way to stop its spread.

Concept understood by many cultures for millennia including the Chinese.
Evidently whatever it is, you are saying, is false.

You have not justified the relationship between the Bible and contemporary science. that is not known by other ancient cultures,
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Science does not consider our universe or our physical existence has a beginning. All the expansion theories concerning our particular universe is based the universe beginning as a singularity in a greater Quantum existence. The current theory of a boundless universe is based on a universe without a beginning. Ultimately it cannot likelly be determined that our physical existence is eternal or finite, or
...the universe beginning as a singularity...
...a boundless universe is based on a universe without a beginning...

Seems paradoxical.

Not remotely significant.
It's very significant.
Explain please, why you say it's not significant.

Odd, also the says the earth is flat and the center of the universe.
The Bible does not say that. People do... Like you just did... and they never can show where... Like you can't.

Everybody could see that without science since time humans became humans
Right. Just as everyone can see that humans inherit traits.
So, none of that is science because everyone can see it.

None of the above has much to do with science. They are simply incomplete citations about some statements that are meaningless concerning science.
Actually, you are trying too hard, and going absolutely nowhere.

Noah's flood is outrageous mythology concerning being in touch with anything to do with what is known today about the earth;. According to the bible the earth and all physical Creation is no more than 6-10 thousand years old.
This is your opinion. Not the Bible.

In contemporary science, the earth is over 4,5 billion years. Our universe is at least 13.7 to 13.8 years old since the beginning of the expansion.
Nothing that contradicts the Bible.

Concept understood by many cultures for millennia including the Chinese.
...and so?
When Scientists “Discover” What Indigenous People Have Known For Centuries
When it supports their claims, Western scientists value what Traditional Knowledge has to offer. If not, they dismiss it

You have not justified the relationship between the Bible and contemporary science. that is not known by other ancient cultures,
I've shown that the Bible is indeed a reliable source of truth.
You have not refuted that.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's said that science attempts to discover truths about the material world.
p0307.gif

Yes, they have discovered some truths. Oftentimes though - not getting into where certain assumptions must be used - science has failed to provide accurate answers about our world.

For example, scientists were convinced that their method of estimating the age of the earth was so accurate, they declared the age to be 4.54 billion years old... give or take .05 billion years.
However, time will tell if that changes.

Earth's Core Is 2.5 Years Younger Than Its Crust
The age of the Earth's inner core revised
By creating conditions akin to the center of the Earth inside a laboratory chamber, researchers have improved the estimate of the age of our planet's solid inner core, putting it at 1 billion to 1.3 billion years old.
The results place the core at the younger end of an age spectrum that usually runs from about 1.3 billion to 4.5 billion years


The age of the universe, too, may be adjusted. Universe Older Than Previously Thought


In many cases, science has drawn a blank.
In other words - just can't answer... as in, don't know.
p0306.gif

For example...
The origin of water on Earth is the subject of a body of research in the fields of planetary science, astronomy, and astrobiology. Earth is unique among the rocky planets in the Solar System in having oceans of liquid water on its surface. Liquid water, which is necessary for all known forms of life, continues to exist on the surface of Earth because the planet is at a far enough distance (known as the habitable zone) from the Sun that it does not lose its water, but not so far that low temperatures cause all water on the planet to freeze.

It was long thought that Earth’s water did not originate from the planet’s region of the protoplanetary disk. Instead, it was hypothesized water and other volatiles must have been delivered to Earth from the outer Solar System later in its history. Recent research, however, indicates that hydrogen inside the Earth played a role in the formation of the ocean
The two ideas are not mutually exclusive, as there is also evidence that water was delivered to Earth by impacts from icy planetesimals similar in composition to asteroids in the outer edges of the asteroid belt.


Where did Earth's water come from? Not melted meteorites, according to scientists
...researchers analyzed melted meteorites that had been floating around in space since the solar system's formation 4 1/2 billion years ago. They found that these meteorites had extremely low water content -- in fact, they were among the driest extraterrestrial materials ever measured.

These results, which let researchers rule them out as the primary source of Earth's water
, could have important implications for the search for water -- and life -- on other planets. It also helps researchers understand the unlikely conditions that aligned to make Earth a habitable planet.

"We wanted to understand how our planet managed to get water because it's not completely obvious," Newcombe said. "Getting water and having surface oceans on a planet that is small and relatively near the sun is a challenge."


What if the answers to many of these questions have been there, all along, but they are ignored?
An aged old book seems an unlikely source of truth, but the Bible has answered quite a number of questions about our world, and has gotten them right.
For example ...
The Bible says the universe had a beginning. (Genesis 1:1)
The Bible says the earth is suspended in empty space. (Job 26:7)
The Bible says rivers and springs are fed by water that has evaporated from the oceans and other sources and then has fallen back to earth as rain, snow, or hail. (Job 36:27, 28; Ecclesiastes 1:7; Isaiah 55:10; Amos 9:6)
...and more.

It's worth considering then, if the Bible does have an answer on the origin of water.
Surprisingly, it does .
Job 38:
8 And who barricaded the sea behind doors
When it burst out from the womb
[No. It's not the womb of a woman],

9 When I clothed it with clouds
And wrapped it in thick gloom,

10 When I established my limit for it
And put its bars and doors in place,

11 And I said, ‘You may come this far, and no farther;
Here is where your proud waves will stop’?
Have you gone down to the sources of the sea
Or explored the deep waters?


The Bible long ago says that the source of the water is the earth's womb.
Millions continue to use the Bible as a source of truth - not for answering questions about the material world, but for life's most valued and important questions, for which the Bible provides reliable answers.
It's good to know that the Bible's answers are accurate, when it touches on things of a material nature.
It does reinforce the fact that the Bible is a reliable source of truth. :)
The Bible like everything else is only effective for its adherents, and for only one lifetime and is certainly not going to last forever.

For me, the truth speaks for itself and that assessment wont last forever either.

It's not we don't really need to search for truth because it's already here right now.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
...the universe beginning as a singularity...


the singularity is not the beginning, particularly in the boundless universe or a cyclic universe.
;...a boundless universe is based on a universe without a beginning...

Seems paradoxical

No as above the universe DOES NOT HAVE a beginning nor a boundary
It's very significant.
Explain please, why you say it's not significant.

General vague knowledge is not significant. Not a question of contemporary science., or science in general.
The Bible does not say that. People do... Like you just did... and they never can show where... Like you can't.


Right. Just as everyone can see that humans inherit traits.
So, none of that is science because everyone can see it.


Actually, you are trying too hard, and going absolutely nowhere.


This is your opinion. Not the Bible.


Nothing that contradicts the Bible.


...and so?
When Scientists “Discover” What Indigenous People Have Known For Centuries
When it supports their claims, Western scientists value what Traditional Knowledge has to offer. If not, they dismiss it


I've shown that the Bible is indeed a reliable source of truth.
You have not refuted that.
You have not responded to the time frame of the Bible, and the problem of Noah's flood, It is not what people say it is what the Bible says.

The mythical world of Genesis, the Pentateuch are not remotely in what we know of science. Your comments concerning 'water' and womb' of the earth is an example, of these contradictions in the Bible your dodging. Science knows basically where the water came from and it is not the 'womb' of the earth. Your failure to respond demonstrates you avoiding the facts of science and the Bible.

The Bible directly states the earth is the center of the universe and all heavenly bodies rotate around the earth.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So you understand that if scientists are saying the earth crust is 4.54 billion years old and the earths core is 2.5 years younger, that means the earth core is 4.54 billion years old.
So what does that 'prove,' or mean in reference to the validity of the Bible?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The Bible like everything else is only effective for its adherents, and for only one lifetime and is certainly not going to last forever.

For me, the truth speaks for itself and that assessment wont last forever either.

It's not we don't really need to search for truth because it's already here right now.
Now, now -- either this world is set to be changed for the better or it is not. The expression "new heavens and new earth" in the Bible does not mean God is going to make a planet, do away with this one, and replace it literally with stone, seas, mountains, etc. I guess we all make choices.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The Bible like everything else is only effective for its adherents, and for only one lifetime and is certainly not going to last forever.

For me, the truth speaks for itself and that assessment wont last forever either.

It's not we don't really need to search for truth because it's already here right now.
The Bible has been preserved throughout lifetimes, and has prophecies in it that have been fulfilled and will be fulfilled.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The Bible has been preserved throughout lifetimes, and has prophecies in it that have been fulfilled and will be fulfilled.
It's debatable givin how the Bible cannot stay in one piece as one standard universal compilation.

Plus many of the so called fulfilled prophecies are in narrative only and many others are intentionally vague and generalist in nature, such as wars and rumors of wars as a criteria when such things are actually commonplace and repetitive.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
@Dan From Smithville -- Hi ya! Dan -- Thought you'd appreciate this after reading some of your refutation about science clashing with the Bible --

Massive 'ocean' discovered towards Earth's core​


(Have a good one...)
Read your reference more carefully without a religious agenda. It is not really an ocean.

The water is hidden inside a blue rock called ringwoodite that lies 700 kilometers underground in the mantle, the layer of hot rock between Earth’s surface and its core.

As the article describe this water is bound chemically in the rock and is part of the normal geologic history of the Earth.


Ringwoodite is a high-pressure phase of Mg2SiO4 (magnesium silicate) formed at high temperatures and pressures of the Earth's mantle between 525 and 660 km (326 and 410 mi) depth. It may also contain iron and hydrogen. It is polymorphous with the olivine phase forsterite (a magnesium iron silicate).

Be careful selectively citing layman articles based don a religious agenda.. You dishonestly selectively cited this reference.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The Bible has been preserved throughout lifetimes, and has prophecies in it that have been fulfilled and will be fulfilled.
The factual evidence is that the Bible has been edited, redacted, and compiled over generations, mostly without known authorship nor provenance of writings. ie no original writings of the Pentateuch at the time they were claimed to be written by Moses. No text of the gospels until well after 100 Ad with documented evidence of being edited.

Another problem over the Millennia is that there have been numerous conflicting claims of the fulfillment of prophecies and repeatedly they have failed, therefore they come up with more predictions of fulfillment that are likely doomed to fail. Most Jews and many Christians have shrugged their shoulders and given up. Jews gave up on the promise of the King and took over Palestine themselves
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
So what does that 'prove,' or mean in reference to the validity of the Bible?

The Bible says Creation and the Earth are between ~6.000 and maybe 10,000 years old at most, and that a flood covered the earth at the time of Noah. There is no evidence that this has any validity whatsoever, In fact, all the evidence is to the contrary.

The Bible also says the Earth is the center of the universe and all heavenly bodies rotate around the Earth.
 
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sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Then, would this not be misleading?
Earth's Core Is 2.5 Years Younger Than Its Crust
The age of the Earth's inner core revised
By creating conditions akin to the center of the Earth inside a laboratory chamber, researchers have improved the estimate of the age of our planet's solid inner core, putting it at 1 billion to 1.3 billion years old.
The results place the core at the younger end of an age spectrum that usually runs from about 1.3 billion to 4.5 billion years


If the core is 2.5 years younger than the crust, and the core is 1 billion to 1.3 billion years old ... I'm confused.
They are talking about two very different things.
The first article is talking about the effect of General Relativity which predicts that time beats slower in regions of high gravity compared to regions of lower gravity. This is the gravitational time dilation effect.
Gravitational time dilation - Wikipedia
So clocks will tick slower the closer you are to the center of the earth compared to away from the center. The effect is very small, but over 4.5 billion years of earth's history, the time difference between the surface of the earth and the core due to this effect is around 2.5 years. That is what is being said.

Next, the second article talks about the time when the inner segment of the originally liquid core solidified. This they are saying happened around 1 billion years ago. That means that before that, that is for the first 3.5 billion years, the earth's core was entirely liquid. What happened 1 billion years ago was not the creation of the core, but a phase change from liquid to solid....like it happens when you put water in your freezer. T
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Why have they not found the bazillion of fossils that are supposed to have been found?
Use that same standard, if you want to be reasonable.
If you expect to find archaeological evidence for every iota in the Bible, then you should expect them to find every iota in the fossil record.

Not talking about fossils here, we are talking about history. I didn’t bring up fossils, so I don’t know why you would.

plus. You cannot mixed fossils and archaeology together, certainly not in the timeline of Bible stories.

Archaeology is dating any physical objects (eg tools, weapons, pottery, minted coins, clay tablets, stone steles, etc) or places (eg buildings in a village or town, tombs, monuments (like ziggurat or pyramid), etc) made by humans. Tools made from iron, bronze and stone/flint can be dated to certain periods.

fossilisation cannot occur within the last 10,000 years. You won’t find any fossils less than 6000 years such as timeline of Adam to Jesus. Unfossiilized human remains, yes. Mummified remains, yes. But no human fossils of the past 6000 years.

you have absolutely no idea about fossils, the long processes that turn the sediments into rock. You are ignorant on the subject of paleontology, if you think fossils can exist in the bible.

you were the one who cited some passages from the bible in the OP, so talking about fossils in your reply, isn’t relevant, since you won’t any non-avian dinosaur fossils or fossils of any other animals, within 6000 years period.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
...the universe beginning as a singularity...
...a boundless universe is based on a universe without a beginning...

Seems paradoxical.

The Big Bang cosmology is the beginning of the universe as we know it, so far.

Meaning, it referred to evolution of the OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE, from the initial expansion plus inflation that cool down the universe, that
  • separates the four fundamental forces or interactions (symmetry breakings),
  • that allow for formation of elementary particles (eg quarks, leptons, bosons) from the universe’s plasma state,
  • followed by formation of earliest atomic matters (eg hydrogen, deuterium, helium, lithium) via Big Bang Nucleosynthesis & Recombination epoch (electrically neutral atoms, the decoupling of photons, the residual energy of last scattering (which you would be familiar with CMBR) & transparent universe,
  • and eventually leading to the formations of large structures (eg molecular clouds, stars, galaxies, planets, etc)…
  • …the universe as we know it, the OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE.
The Big Bang theory actually don’t say much about anything beyond the initial expansion of the universe, only to say that the universe as a singularity was infinitely hot and dense.

This singularity contains all the universe’s energies and spacetime. The Big Bang theory explained the expansion (& inflationary state) of those energies & spacetime, as what I have already listed in bullet-points.

if you are interested in the boundless universe, then you would need to explore the highly theoretical models, such as the Cyclical Universe models (sometimes known as the Big Bounce), or one of the variants of Multiverse models.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
You're just interested in repeating what you believe not looking at the evidence which I had assumed but you've now proven.
I'm interested in evidence. You claimed to have proof. The two are not the same.
If you want to discuss evidence, post one. Don't post a whole webpage. I could do the same, and refute the entire page.
I basically did that, though, with one statement.

You're just interested in repeating what you believe not looking at the evidence.
See how that works.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The Bible like everything else is only effective for its adherents, and for only one lifetime and is certainly not going to last forever.

For me, the truth speaks for itself and that assessment wont last forever either.

It's not we don't really need to search for truth because it's already here right now.
Those are a lot of statements stated dogmatically as facts.
However, we both know they are claims made by someone who simply believes what he says. Don't we.
 
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