dfnj
Well-Known Member
What you are quoting, I think, was in reference to saving one's own soul in one's lifetime. It's not a reference to a particular time. Scripture is always a little weird because it was not originally written in English.
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The Second Coming Sham
- Thread starter Rational Agnostic
- Start date
What you are quoting, I think, was in reference to saving one's own soul in one's lifetime. It's not a reference to a particular time. Scripture is always a little weird because it was not originally written in English.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Since Jesus is long read and buried I have my doubts. But let's work on your misunderstanding of the Bible.LOL... If you say so Subduction.
Jesus loves you and I do too!
I heard he is risen, still lives--but I will be the first to admit I don't know the whole of the Bible and probably have some of my interpretations wrong. But, IMV, what is written is still good.
What is written in the Bible is truly amazing. More amazing than all of us have considered.
Peace be upon you and all.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Some of the Bible is of value. It is not all worthless. But quite a bit of it has been shown to be wrong. An all or nothing attitude is usually a losing approach to any complex subject. If one has such a belief in regards to the Bible "nothing" is the correct approach. There are Christians out there that do not make a false idol of the Bible. They still have faith in the message of the New Testament without depending on the false parts of the Old Testament.
I understand your position.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is one that you should consider since by your beliefs whether you realize it or not you are calling God a liar, incompetent, and a bit of a monster. If he is real he probably would not appreciate that.I understand your position.
If you think so. I certainly see no need to follow this line in a discussion. Shalom to you.
I have found the Bible is not wrong, but how we understand its spiritual meanings are wrong.
Christianity will eventually open their understandings as to how all embracing Jesus the Christ really is.
Peace be upon you
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is because you cannot do so properly without admitting that you are wrong.
Shalom to you.
It would be nice if creationists could at the very least promise not to break the Ninth Commandment when in a debate on evolution.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
With massive reinterpretation or merely taking much of it as analogy and fable you might have a point. But if one tries to claim that it is factually true that cannot be done with any honesty at all.
The Bible is not a History book, it is a progressive Spiritual guide.
It is just a new Frame of Reference. I see Jesus challenged the Jews to consider a new frame of reference and now it is our turn.
Peace be upon you and all.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There are many Christians that disagree with you. I see value in the Bible as well, but clearly not as a book of history.
I would expect many would disagree, it is a spiritual fact in the Bible.
"The First will be last and the Last will be first."
Peace be upon you and all.
That scripture has been translated various ways and most of them do not convey the meaning of the original text, preferring to give it a trinitarian slant, but if translated correctly, it says the opposite of what trinitarians want it to.
This rendering of the complete passage is from the Mounce Greek Interlinear.....
"Your attitude toward one another should be the same as that of Christ Jesus, who, although he was in the form of God , did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped , but emptied himself, taking on the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of man . And being found in appearance as a man he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death , even death on a cross ! Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven , and on earth and under the earth , and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father ."
Philippians 2:5-11 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Philippians%202:5-11&version=MOUNCE
Being in "the form of God" means that the pre-human Jesus was a spirit, like God is. All creatures who dwell in heaven are spirits. But once he had been born as a human (sent by God. John 7:29) after taking up his role as the Messiah, with the supernatural abilities given to him by God's spirit, he did not ever give humans the impression that he wanted to be viewed as being equal with his God.
We can understand the vast superiority of spirit beings in comparison to mere mortals, and the human propensity to treat such beings with supernatural abilities, as "gods". (You might recall when Paul and Barnabas performed miracles, the people thought they were gods and wanted to sacrifice to them. (Acts 14:11-14)
But if you read on in Philippians 2, it becomes obvious that Jesus never was God incarnate. He was "obedient" to his God and Father. Can one part of God be obedient to an equal part of himself?
After he completed his earthly mission successfully, and returned to the spirit realm, God "exalted him" and "gave him a name above every other name". Think about that for a moment....how does God "exalt" an equal part of himself? How does he give an equal part of himself a name higher than what he already has as God Almighty? (Psalm 83:18)
As a human, Jesus was to complete his assignment as one who brought glory to his Father, not himself.
Rather than support the trinity, this scripture is proving that the trinity is false.
True, he could never have been tempted unless he was 100% human.
But the Almighty is an immortal and cannot die. If Jesus was "fully God" as well as being "fully human", then there is a dilemma. If Jesus was God, it means that he coudn't really die.....and if he did not die the same death as Adam, then he could not be "the last Adam" to pay for our sins....which means that we are all still condemned.
1John 4:12-15...
"No one has ever seen God. If we love one another, God abides in us , and his love has achieved its goal in us . By this we know that we abide in God and he in us: because he has given us of his Spirit . And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world."
1 John 4:12-14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1%20John%204:12-14&version=MOUNCE
"No one has ever seen God"....which is reconfirmed at John 1:18.
That in itself should tell you something.
Yes, this is why those whom Jesus rejects at his coming manifestation will infer that he is somehow wrong in his evaluation of them. (Matthew 7:21-23) Those who love God, love the truth and do not cling to doctrines that dishonour him and fight with other scripture. God will not correct them if they are set in their thinking. (2 Thess 2:11-12) He allows us the freedom of our own conclusions.
The events that we expect in the future will overtake humanity suddenly, and for them, unexpectedly, just as the flood of Noah's day overtook the unbelievers back then. (Matthew 24:37-39) Noah would not have survived the flood if he had failed to follow God's instructions to the letter. (Genesis 6:22)
It took decades to construct the ark because there were so few workers, and God did not provide any miraculous assistance in the building work....the humans had to work hard for their salvation, building that vessel from scratch, in an atmosphere of ridicule and unbelief.
The more time went on with no flood, the sillier Noah looked, but he kept on faithfully working until the project was complete. It was then God who closed the door of the ark, signalling that all opportunity for salvation was gone. Only those within that vessel would live.
What is the ark today?
That translation really supports what I have read about the Message of Baha'u'llah.
" to the 'Gory of God', the 'Father'".
Thats a wow moment, as this is what is offered as the promised New Name in the station of the Father.
I have considered does the Son become the Father.
I beleive Christ did offer that God can not be known, this translation adds to that thought.
Peace be upon you and all.
Neuropteron
Active Member
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Jesus promised that some of his disciples would not taste death until they had first seen " the son of man coming in his kingdom and in power".
This promise was fulfilled "six days later" (or eight if we include the day of the promise and it's fulfillement) when Peter, James and John accompanied Jesus into a "lofty mountain" where, while praying, Jesus was transfigured before them.
It is know as the transfiguration. (Mat 17:1;Mark 9:2;Luke 9:28) Itserved to strenghten the faith of his followers, showed that Jesus had God's approval and it was a foreview of his future glory and kingdom power.
All the best
I find the ' whole history of humanity ' can be traced back to humanities religious family tree with its roots or its base located in ancient Babylon because once the people left ancient Babylon they took with them their non-biblical religious beliefs and teachings and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
Since mankind is created with a spiritual nature then is should Not surprise anyone to see a broader or wider universal perspective because of what stems from ancient Babylon. None of which changes the happy climax that the Bible book of Revelation proclaims at Revelation 22:2 that mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the healing of earth's nations. 'Earth's nations' ( Aka everyone ) need healing, and that healing will only come from Jesus who is the one who will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
Please notice what I found at Matthew 17:9 because that transfiguration was a VISION and Not a real happening.
So, that transfiguration vision will Not be fullfilled until the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40
when as you say it was a foreview, or a preview, of Jesus' future glory time and coming in kingdom power.
The kingdom power of Daniel 2:44.
Too much emphasis on Babylonia, which is only one civilization on a chain of human advancement in technologies. There is no indication that the religious beliefs of Babylonia were spread world wide, You need to present evidence and references.
This narrow view hardly presents a coherent history of humanity,
This still reflects a rather narrow view of the history of humanity and civilizations, which extend beyond any subjective interpretation of the Bible and in particular the Book of Revelation,