The self promoting religion

[Abram]

There is a form of Christianity that believes that Christ is the only way to heaven. The Bible has a ton of verses that will support this claim making it a strong case for us Christians to believe in. Here on RF it seems that just saying that Jesus is the only way that we are saying that if you don't believe in him then your going to hell.

Well its not us who made this claim, but our God in which we believe in. Part of our belief is that yes there is a hell and sadly many are going there. But we are going to believe what we found is true and work to do our God's will. We believe in a absolute right and wrong. This may be a conflict in your religion and you hate being told (even indirectly) that your going to hell. I hated myself!

But keep in mind that its our Gods claim and it gets hard to debate some things with out being jumped on for telling some (indirectly) that their not going to heaven if they don't believe in Jesus. When all we are doing is discussing out beliefs. In fact I think Christ is one of the most controversal subject on this forum. In my eyes it should be.

So its out of love for you that we say the things that we do even if it upsets you. We don't want to push our belief, the problem is that our belief is self pushing. Just by stating that we think Jesus is the way we are also saying that he's the only way. In return saying your way is not the way because ours is the only way. Its hard enough to debate any religion but this claim has a special twist to it. Your either for him or against him.

 

[Ody]

Your either for him or against him.

Fire or brimstone or else, got it :cover:

Anyways, i understand your post, and its kind for you to tell us that you don't mean to be combative if you come out as such

 

[Katzpur]

Your either for him or against him.

I disagree. There are millions (perhaps billions) of people who have lived and died without ever having even heard of Him. These people are neither for Him or against Him. There are millions of others who live in countries where Christianity is strictly forbidden. Their only exposure to Christianity has been in the form of anti-Christian rhetoric. They may be against Christ, but only because they have never had the opportunity to really understand His Gospel. There are people (I personally know of such a family) whose only interaction with Christians has been negative. They were Bosnian refugees whose relatives were brutally murdered by Christian extremists before they fled to the United States. They have had the opportunity since arriving here to be exposed to "true" Christianity but, until a few years ago, could hardly have been blamed for rejecting Christianity out of hand. Things aren't as black and white as we would like to think they are.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Unfortunately, the argument can be made that the reason we others don't believe that we are going to hell is because we don't believe in your version of hell. What's more, I think that some people's idea of presenting their idea that their faith is the only true path has a tendency to lead to hell- in the sense that it leads to people slaughtering each other in the name of what they believe is right, which is hell on earth.

Thankfully, on these forums, the problem doesn't arise, because people are aware of RF's policy on rule 19.

 

[Abram]

I disagree. There are millions (perhaps billions) of people who have lived and died without ever having even heard of Him. These people are neither for Him or against Him. There are millions of others who live in countries where Christianity is strictly forbidden. Their only exposure to Christianity has been in the form of anti-Christian rhetoric. They may be against Christ, but only because they have never had the opportunity to really understand His Gospel. There are people (I personally know of such a family) whose only interaction with Christians has been negative. They were Bosnian refugees whose relatives were brutally murdered by Christian extremists before they fled to the United States. They have had the opportunity since arriving here to be exposed to "true" Christianity but, until a few years ago, could hardly have been blamed for rejecting Christianity out of hand. Things aren't as black and white as we would like to think they are.

But you believe in a different Christianity than I. I think God will judge the ones that never heard with perfect judgement. But I don't take judgement away from those that have heard. It was to point that some do think that Jesus is the only way.

Unfortunately, the argument can be made that the reason we others don't believe that we are going to hell is because we don't believe in your version of hell. What's more, I think that some people's idea of presenting their idea that their faith is the only true path has a tendency to lead to hell- in the sense that it leads to people slaughtering each other in the name of what they believe is right, which is hell on earth.

I know many people don't belive in the same hell. I was stating that if one were to take Jesus at his word and think he is the only way then there is no other, regardless of what anyone else thinks or believes.
Its not that I said he's the only way, its that he said he's the only way.

God's children don't slaughter others in his name. Some will proclaim his name and then do acts that would be considered far from what he said to do. Its like the guy who hoped in the lions cage yesterday yelling "God will save me." Its not that God didnt save him, its that he was proclaim a false God.

Thankfully, on these forums, the problem doesn't arise, because people are aware of RF's policy on rule 19.

Please don't think this is an attempt to convert anyone to my views. I just want to explain why some feel that some Christians are pushing their religion. Its the belief pushing itself. Its kinda crazy if you put thought to it, at least for me...

 

[Katzpur]

But you believe in a different Christianity than I. I think God will judge the ones that never heard with perfect judgement.

That's nice, but that's not what the Bible says, is it?

But I don't take judgement away from those that have heard. It was to point that some do think that Jesus is the only way.

Me neither. And I also think that Jesus is the only way. I just believe that everyone will have the opportunity to hear His Gospel before being judged.

I know many people don't belive in the same hell. I was stating that if one were to take Jesus at his word and think he is the only way then there is no other, regardless of what anyone else thinks or believes.
Its not that I said he's the only way, its that he said he's the only way.

I know He did. He also said that we must believe in Him and be baptized in order to be saved. He didn't say anything about making exceptions for a few million people, did He?

God's children don't slaughter others in his name. Some will proclaim his name and then do acts that would be considered far from what he said to do. Its like the guy who hoped in the lions cage yesterday yelling "God will save me." Its not that God didnt save him, its that he was proclaim a false God.

I'll go along with that.

Please don't think this is an attempt to convert anyone to my views. I just want to explain why some feel that some Christians are pushing their religion. Its the belief pushing itself. Its kinda crazy if you put thought to it, at least for me...

I don't think that. I'm glad you explained your perspective. I just like mine better.

 

[Abram]

I don't think that. I'm glad you explained your perspective. I just like mine better.

I thought Feathers was warning me about breaking the number 19 rule.

Me neither. And I also think that Jesus is the only way. I just believe that everyone will have the opportunity to hear His Gospel before being judged.

I can never debate this point with you because you just agree with me. But then you don't agree with me. I think everyone has the the chance to hear the gospel to. I feel your highest heaven is the only heaven though.

That's nice, but that's not what the Bible says, is it?

What does it say?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Ack, I'm sorry if it came across as if I were warning you! I wasn't. Sometimes it's not very obvious when I'm joking, and this was apparently one of those times. I was having fun at the idea that there being a rule would mean that we never had to face the topic. (With something as personal as religion, I'm amazed that it doesn't come up more.) Again, I apologize if it looked as if I were warning you!

I know many people don't belive in the same hell. I was stating that if one were to take Jesus at his word and think he is the only way then there is no other, regardless of what anyone else thinks or believes.
Its not that I said he's the only way, its that he said he's the only way.

*nods* I understand. I think that you make an important differentiation. There are some people who state it "And because Jesus said that He's the only way, it's what I believe" and others who state it "And because Jesus said that He's the only way, it's what everyone should believe." While the latter is sometimes still inferred, it makes a world of difference to the reader when the writer chooses to phrase things in the method of the former.

God's children don't slaughter others in his name. Some will proclaim his name and then do acts that would be considered far from what he said to do. Its like the guy who hoped in the lions cage yesterday yelling "God will save me." Its not that God didnt save him, its that he was proclaim a false God.

I'm afraid that I'm not thinking very well at the moment, and don't remember this fellow. I'm sorry.

Please don't think this is an attempt to convert anyone to my views. I just want to explain why some feel that some Christians are pushing their religion. Its the belief pushing itself. Its kinda crazy if you put thought to it, at least for me...

Nah, I remember it well from when I was a Christian. It's like a driving urge, where your heart is so filled with joy that you can't do anything but want to share it with others. I suppose that's the thing I like about RF, is that it reminds me that joy can come from a number of paths.

 

[Katzpur]

I can never debate this point with you because you just agree with me. But then you don't agree with me.

Huh?

I think everyone has the the chance to hear the gospel to.

When will the people who died without ever having heard of Jesus hear about Him?

I feel your highest heaven is the only heaven though.

So you don't believe in the third heaven Stephen saw? Why not? Why would he have mentioned a third heaven if there were not a first and a second heaven? Doesn't make sense to me.

What does it say?

It says you have to believe and be baptized. It doesn't say that God will look the other way if you have never had that chance. And don't tell me everyone has had that chance. We both know that's not the case.

 

[Pah]

There is a form of Christianity that believes that Christ is the only way to heaven. The Bible has a ton of verses that will support this claim making it a strong case for us Christians to believe in. Here on RF it seems that just saying that Jesus is the only way that we are saying that if you don't believe in him then your going to hell.

Well its not us who made this claim, but our God in which we believe in. Part of our belief is that yes there is a hell and sadly many are going there. But we are going to believe what we found is true and work to do our God's will. We believe in a absolute right and wrong. This may be a conflict in your religion and you hate being told (even indirectly) that your going to hell. I hated myself!

But keep in mind that its our Gods claim and it gets hard to debate some things with out being jumped on for telling some (indirectly) that their not going to heaven if they don't believe in Jesus. When all we are doing is discussing out beliefs. In fact I think Christ is one of the most controversal subject on this forum. In my eyes it should be.

So its out of love for you that we say the things that we do even if it upsets you. We don't want to push our belief, the problem is that our belief is self pushing. Just by stating that we think Jesus is the way we are also saying that he's the only way. In return saying your way is not the way because ours is the only way. Its hard enough to debate any religion but this claim has a special twist to it. Your either for him or against him.

There isn't a form of Christianity that does not deviate from biblical injunction.

There is, of course, the book of Leviticus.

There is the storing of wealth and not giving charity as Jesus would.

It is just a matter of finding where you go wrong.

 

[sojourner]

There is a form of Christianity that believes that Christ is the only way to heaven. The Bible has a ton of verses that will support this claim making it a strong case for us Christians to believe in. Here on RF it seems that just saying that Jesus is the only way that we are saying that if you don't believe in him then your going to hell.

Well its not us who made this claim, but our God in which we believe in. Part of our belief is that yes there is a hell and sadly many are going there. But we are going to believe what we found is true and work to do our God's will. We believe in a absolute right and wrong. This may be a conflict in your religion and you hate being told (even indirectly) that your going to hell. I hated myself!

But keep in mind that its our Gods claim and it gets hard to debate some things with out being jumped on for telling some (indirectly) that their not going to heaven if they don't believe in Jesus. When all we are doing is discussing out beliefs. In fact I think Christ is one of the most controversal subject on this forum. In my eyes it should be.

So its out of love for you that we say the things that we do even if it upsets you. We don't want to push our belief, the problem is that our belief is self pushing. Just by stating that we think Jesus is the way we are also saying that he's the only way. In return saying your way is not the way because ours is the only way. Its hard enough to debate any religion but this claim has a special twist to it. Your either for him or against him.

there is also part of Christianity that believes in salvation for everyone, and who places priority on the love of God for all God's children, rather than on God's judgment.

The fallacy here is that it is you who is claiming that. when I read the Bible, I don't interpret it in the same way as you do. To me, God is saying something completely different.

Why? Why does Xy have to be sad? I thought the gospel was about good news. Heaven is not an exclusive country club. God does not seek to divide, but to unify.

We do? I don't believe in an absolute right and wrong. And I'm a Christian. Am I the "wrong kind" of Christian? What absolute would that be? Who gets to decide?

Everybody hates being told they're not "good enough." It's disrespectful and it diminishes their worth.

It's not love, it's hubris. "God's only going to love you if you believe the same thing I do." You can't condemn someone for holding to a different aspect of truth than you do. None of us has all the answers. That's why we have faith, trust and belief, not evidence, proof and fact.

I think you do want to push your faith, or you wouldn't be deliberately pi$$ing people off with this "I have the real truth" attitude. I don't think Xy is pushy at all. Jesus was kind and gentle with those who were lost. Remember, it was the disciples who chased the children away...not Jesus.

"Problem"...why does Xy have to contain a "problem?" The problem lies, I think, not with Xy, but with those who push it on others.

Some of us don't think Jesus is the only way. Jesus didn't say "I am the only way." when you get ready to take a trip, you look at a road map and you might say to your friend, "Do you know the way to get where we're going?" There are many roads on the map, usually more than one of which will get you from where you are to where you want to be, but you're looking for a particular route. You can't take more than one route to the same place, even if more than one route exists.

 

[michel]

So its out of love for you that we say the things that we do even if it upsets you. We don't want to push our belief, the problem is that our belief is self pushing. Just by stating that we think Jesus is the way we are also saying that he's the only way. In return saying your way is not the way because ours is the only way. Its hard enough to debate any religion but this claim has a special twist to it. Your either for him or against him.

I am sorry, but although I believe you believe you are saying what you need to say, I personally think you do Christianity a disservice. It is exactly that approach that puts people off. Muslims say exacxtly the same about Allah; there are numerous groups out there *waves hands all over the world* who think exactly as you do, but about their God.

I understand what motivates you and can even admire your fortitude, but I disagree.

I am for "God", but I believe that my God will accept us all back, willingly, at the end of time.

 

[Baerly]

Please be patient with me I am new to the site. Baerly

Jesus said I am (the) way,(the) truth,and (the) life:no man cometh to the father,(but) by me (John 14:6). Jesus did not say I am (a) way. he said he was (the) way. Then Jesus goes on to say that no man cometh to the father but by me. Jesus is saying there is (no other way) to God. No one can get to God except through Jesus.
We may be able to get to Chicago many different ways by examining a road map.But we are looking into the bible.There are not many ways to get to heaven according to the bible. There is one and it is through Jesus Christ.
in love Baerly

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Sure, Jesus said that, but he also said:


"I do not judge anyone who hears my words and does not keep them, for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47)



In Matthew 19:16, Luke 18 and in Mark 10, Jesus tells the rich man when asked, "What must I do to inherit eternal life?" that he must keep the commandments, and then begins to list the ten commandments. He then said that one more thing he must do is to sell all he owns and to distribute the money to the poor. Not once does he tell the rich man that he must believe in him as Lord and Saviour.



In Matthew 25:31 - 46 Jesus DOES talk of the Judgement of the Nations, but he foretells of those being cast into the eternal fire because of one's actions toward other humans (in fact, what one does to strangers, the naked, the sick, the imprisoned, one does to him), not because one lacked faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour.




It's always so much better for me, myself, to read the Gospels and to see for myself the loving kindness, the compassion toward the least fortunate of society, the humility of Jesus, and the attention toward God's commandments for how we are behave toward each other. When I read the Gospels..........I read much of the dharma, too.



So, no...........it isn't clear to me in all of Jesus' teachings that one needs to shun other beliefs, to call out Jesus' name in prayer, to say that he is the one and singular way to salvation, and to openly condemn anyone who doesn't believe the same thing that I do (and then claim that it isn't MY words, but GOD'S words). I read something very different when I study the Gospels.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[jewscout]

There is a form of Christianity that believes that Christ is the only way to heaven. The Bible has a ton of verses that will support this claim making it a strong case for us Christians to believe in. Here on RF it seems that just saying that Jesus is the only way that we are saying that if you don't believe in him then your going to hell.

Well its not us who made this claim, but our God in which we believe in. Part of our belief is that yes there is a hell and sadly many are going there. But we are going to believe what we found is true and work to do our God's will. We believe in a absolute right and wrong. This may be a conflict in your religion and you hate being told (even indirectly) that your going to hell. I hated myself!

But keep in mind that its our Gods claim and it gets hard to debate some things with out being jumped on for telling some (indirectly) that their not going to heaven if they don't believe in Jesus. When all we are doing is discussing out beliefs. In fact I think Christ is one of the most controversal subject on this forum. In my eyes it should be.

So its out of love for you that we say the things that we do even if it upsets you. We don't want to push our belief, the problem is that our belief is self pushing. Just by stating that we think Jesus is the way we are also saying that he's the only way. In return saying your way is not the way because ours is the only way. Its hard enough to debate any religion but this claim has a special twist to it. Your either for him or against him.

you can believe all that and still not force your beliefs on others.
I am fully aware that there are christians on this forum who think i'm going to hell for any number of reasons...and that's fine...i don't concern myself w/ a place i don't believe exists
what's important is respecting other's

 

[SoyLeche]

Here's something interesting I learned in my Deductive Logic class.

There are two statements: "Those who are not for me are against me" and "Those who are not against me are for me"

These statements appear to treat undecided people differently. The problem is, they both appear in scripture (although I believe only one is in the Bible, the other does occur in LDS scripture). So, what does that mean for the undecideds?

The answer is, nothing. Those two statements are logically equivalent. They are just saying that there are two groups - those who are for Christ and those who are against him. Essentially they say that there is no middle ground. Take that for what it's worth. I tend to believe it's the way people live that determines which group they fall in, not what they profess.

Luckily, though, it's not up to me to make the distinction. I'll leave that to someone infinitely more qualified for the job

 

[sojourner]

Please be patient with me I am new to the site. Baerly

Jesus said I am (the) way,(the) truth,and (the) life:no man cometh to the father,(but) by me (John 14:6). Jesus did not say I am (a) way. he said he was (the) way. Then Jesus goes on to say that no man cometh to the father but by me. Jesus is saying there is (no other way) to God. No one can get to God except through Jesus.
We may be able to get to Chicago many different ways by examining a road map.But we are looking into the bible.There are not many ways to get to heaven according to the bible. There is one and it is through Jesus Christ.
in love Baerly

Let's take that passage in context and try to imagine a conversation going on between Jesus and Thomas:

Jesus says, "...and you know the way to the place where I am going." Thomas said, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?" (Note the statement before the question: We do not know where you are going.)
Jesus answers, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life."

First off, it's obvious to the most casual reader that the vocal inflection should be on the word "I" in that conversation -- not on the word "the." The question isn't "which route?" The question centers around "what destination?"

Secondly, even if you're looking at a map to go to Chicago, you usually do have a particular route in mind, among all the routes -- you're looking for a specific route.

We have to remember that Jesus is talking to his disciples -- his followers -- not to a disparate group of curious people, nor even to a group of serious seekers. He's talking to those who are supposed to be following him. Of course he's going to tell him to follow where he leads!

Personally, I believe that following Jesus is the best way to come to God -- that's why I'm a Xian...but I don't believe it's the only way, and I don't condemn those who aren't Xian.