The Situation in Egypt

[Bismillah]

There is nothing naive of celebrating the overthrow of a tyrant. It is a human reaction and if one cannot understand then it only speaks to their isolation of such a rule.

Celebration tempered with pragmatism is the key to a successful transition into the new Egypt. The ideals for which the protests have been waged and people have been killed are not easily forgotten and will not be forgotten if the army institutes its own figurehead.

What must be done now is to allow the various political parties to take their stances and to attack and defend their ideologies so that the Egyptians know exactly who it is they are electing and what type of government they are forming.

I doubt that the removal of Mubarak would result in a pacification of lethargy if he were replaced with another tyrant, that is inconsistent with reality. But protestors now must look deeper into how exactly they want their new government to take shape.

 

[England my lionheart]

I say good for them,this could have gone so badly,i think the Army should be applauded,like others i am suspicious of Military Coups but if that was the aim the Army could have acted earlier which i think they were very reluctant to do.

I take some heart in the words of many protesters concerning what they want,they want a Secular Democracy,ok some will be disappointed with that but its the closest thing there is to a fair Government.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Ymir, I really hope we are right at this.

Lets pray for more democracy in the region, and more freedomes. Only this would grant full peace and understanding.

 

[Alceste]

England, I agree. If the military wanted to suppress the uprising with violence, they could have joined Mubarak's hired thugs who beat and killed civilians last week. If they wanted to preserve the status quo they could have endorsed Suleiman. I'm convinced they believe many of the protesters' demands are reasonable and acheivable, that they have concluded that stability can only be restored by meeting their demands, and that they have ousted Mubarak and his sidekick because they would not cooperate with progressive proposals.

That doesn't mean they won't use force to clear the streets, though, now that they've stated their position. That's what worries me.

 

[England my lionheart]

England, I agree. If the military wanted to suppress the uprising with violence, they could have joined Mubarak's hired thugs who beat and killed civilians last week. If they wanted to preserve the status quo they could have endorsed Suleiman. I'm convinced they believe many of the protesters' demands are reasonable and acheivable, that they have concluded that stability can only be restored by meeting their demands, and that they have ousted Mubarak and his sidekick because they would not cooperate with proposals to concede to the opposition's demands.

That doesn't mean they won't use force to clear the streets, though, now that they've stated their position. That's what worries me.

Me too,i hope they don't screw it up now,i've got my optimistic head on that they won't though

 

[Alceste]

Me too,i hope they don't screw it up now,i've got my optimistic head on that they won't though

Yeah, me too. They'd have to be awfully out of touch and / or insane not to see a clear and peaceful path to satisfying the public. The fact they've pushed Mubarak aside leads me to believe the military commanders don't share his delusions or his taste for violence against Egyptian civilians.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yeah, me too. They'd have to be awfully out of touch and / or insane not to see a clear and peaceful path to satisfying the public. The fact they've pushed Mubarak aside leads me to believe the military commanders don't share his delusions or his taste for violence against Egyptian civilians.

I think that the youth in the Army and those in the protest will be the decider in the whole process,i also think the youth know exactly in which direction they want to take this,if the Army Chiefs had ordered them to attack the people i think that most would refuse.

 

[Alceste]

I think that the youth in the Army and those in the protest will be the decider in the whole process,i also think the youth know exactly in which direction they want to take this,if the Army Chiefs had ordered them to attack the people i think that most would refuse.

I agree. I've never met a soldier who was chomping at the bit to murder or otherwise abuse citizens of his own country. Police are a different story.

 

[Genuine Realist]

I agree. I've never met a soldier who was chomping at the bit to murder or otherwise abuse citizens of his own country. Police are a different story.

Really. You HAVE met police of that temperament?? Or is this another Chomsky-ism straight from the ivory tower?)

(P.S. A huge percentage of police officers are reservists.)

 

[Genuine Realist]

GR, I have been a vocal opponent of war, rendition, torture, the suspension of habeus corpus, the Halliburton subcontract slave trade, warrantless wire-tapping, repressive legislation like the Patriot Act, the school of the Americas (where aspiring Latin American torturers go to learn their chops), fabricated "evidence" for war and countless other facets of America's incompetent and dangerous world leadership for my entire adult life.

Just because you weren't looking for it doesn't mean dissent wasn't there. Put Glenn Greenwald, Chris Floyd, Greg Palast and Harpers magazine on your RSS feed so you don't miss out next time around.

None of them were vocal when it mattered, friend. And if, God forbid, there is another act of mass murder, they will all dive under their desks and wait until a few years. Until it's safe.

As for you, you can continue living under the security umbrella and loudly complaining. It's safe.

 

[Alceste]

None of them were vocal when it mattered, friend. And if, God forbid, there is another act of mass murder, they will all dive under their desks and wait until a few years. Until it's safe.

As for you, you can continue living under the security umbrella and loudly complaining. It's safe.

What foolishness. You don't think Greenwald, Harpers magazine et al were complaining? You don't think they've got backbone? Have you ever even read a single article by any of those people? Do you know who they are and what they do? There are more things in heaven and earth, GR, than are dreamt of in your Washington Post.

 

[Alceste]

Really. You HAVE met police of that temperament?? Or is this another Chomsky-ism straight from the ivory tower?)

(P.S. A huge percentage of police officers are reservists.)

I've witnessed police brutality, yes, and I've not seen a glimmer of shame.

 

[kai]

OK Mubarak is gone Defence minister Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, 76, head of the Armed Forces Supreme Council, will lead the interim government. he should honour its promise to end the state of emergency, defer so far as possible to civilian ministers, and preside over a swift move to elected government.

The road to democracy has not ended its just the end of the beginning, All those outside Egypt who cheered the protesters on ,have a duty to ensure that those who now hold the reins of power do not betray those expectations.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The road to democracy has not ended its just the end of the beginning, All those outside Egypt who cheered the protesters on ,have a duty to ensure that those who now hold the reins of power do not betray those expectations.

I think you're mistaken. It is evident that the people of Egypt are the ones holding the reigns of power, and therefore they are the ones with the duty to continue to improve their country. Those of us outside Egypt who cheered the protesters on can do nothing but continue to cheer them on.

 

[kai]

I think you're mistaken. It is evident that the people of Egypt are the ones holding the reigns of power, and therefore they are the ones with the duty to continue to improve their country. Those of us outside Egypt who cheered the protesters on can do nothing but continue to cheer them on.

I hate to say it Spinks but the same guys as yesterday hold the reigns of power,Mubarak may have stood down but the governmental machine in which the Army is intrinsically linked is still in power. The outside world must keep up the pressure to make sure that machine fulfills its promise to the Egyptian people.

 

[Alceste]

I hate to say it Spinks but the same guys as yesterday hold the reigns of power,Mubarak may have stood down but the governmental machine in which the Army is intrinsically linked is still in power. The outside world must keep up the pressure to make sure that machine fulfills its promise to the Egyptian people.

If they have any brains at all, they will understand that following through on their clear and unambiguous promises to the newly energized Egyptian civil society is the surest way to retain the foreign funding and domestic respect they currently enjoy. There is always the possibility that Egypt's military leaders have no brains, or that a whiff of opportunity for totalitarian power will be enough to chase their brains away, but I hope reason outweighs the corrupting temptation of power. Judging by their actions so far, I see good cause for this hope.

 

[kai]

If they have any brains at all, they will understand that following through on their clear and unambiguous promises to the newly energized Egyptian civil society is the surest way to retain the foreign funding and domestic respect they currently enjoy. There is always the possibility that Egypt's military leaders have no brains, or that a whiff of opportunity for totalitarian power will be enough to chase their brains away, but I hope reason outweighs the corrupting temptation of power. Judging by their actions so far, I see good cause for this hope.

This is one of those rare occasions when you an i agree.



Mubarak has been jettisoned by the guys who wield power.

Tomorrow is the start of the week in Egypt and the Army is expecting everyone to go home.

Fingers crossed here.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I hate to say it Spinks but the same guys as yesterday hold the reigns of power,Mubarak may have stood down but the governmental machine in which the Army is intrinsically linked is still in power. The outside world must keep up the pressure to make sure that machine fulfills its promise to the Egyptian people.

I don't think you get it. It wasn't the outside world that started the protests. It wasn't the outside world that continued the protests for 18 days. It wasn't the outside world that demanded Mubarak step down. It wasn't the outside world that burned Mubarak's party buildings, tore down his posters, blocked tanks and police from entering Tahrir square, and marched by the millions on the presidential palace. It was not outsiders, or even the Army, or the security forces, that brought the entire nation of Egypt to a standstill for 18 days, stopping traffic, stopping production, halting the economy. [

As Einstein said the Army is considered a neutral party. As England pointed out the Army is made of Egyptians who have proved themselves to be on the side of the people during these protests, sometimes the Army protected them from the police. A senior Egyptian Army official said no soldier would fire "one single shot" at any protester. Contrast this attitude with Mubarak's hired thugs. Consider the American Revolution: after the British were kicked out who took power? The state militias. Who was the first President? Washington, the commander of the army. What matters is whose side is the Army on, and who is ultimately calling the shots. I think the concept of real democracy in countries like Egypt is so strange, that many people cannot recognize it when it materializes right in front of them. They are convinced protests must fail. When the protests have some success, they are convinced it must actually be a military coup, no real change occurred.
Consider this: Al-Jazeera reported people kissing soldiers, who waved peace signs in celebration riding in their armored cars last night. The protesters never said they wanted to dismantle the Army did they? They said they wanted Mubarak to leave, they wanted an interim Council to oversee fair elections to create a new government. It looks like Mubarak and the Army caved in to their demands. It was outsiders, if you remember, who felt sure this would never happen. And it's outsiders now who are equating the revolution to a military coup. I think those outsiders were wrong for the last 18 days and they will be wrong again in 1 year when a new government is elected.

**edit: I'm not disagreeing with you or Alceste that this is not over, the protesters still have to ensure the military makes good on its promises. My point is the Egyptian people are the ones who ultimately have the power, and it's their duty and their responsibility to use it, this is their victory to build upon or give up on, it does not belong to the outsiders who were cheering them on.

 

[kai]

I don't think you get it. It wasn't the outside world that started the protests. It wasn't the outside world that continued the protests for 18 days. It wasn't the outside world that demanded Mubarak step down. It wasn't the outside world that burned Mubarak's party buildings, tore down his posters, blocked tanks and police from entering Tahrir square, and marched by the millions on the presidential palace. It was not outsiders, or even the Army, or the security forces, that brought the entire nation of Egypt to a standstill for 18 days, stopping traffic, stopping production, halting the economy. I get it and i didnt say it was

As Einstein said the Army is considered a neutral party. As England pointed out the Army is made of Egyptians who have proved themselves to be on the side of the people during these protests, sometimes the Army protected them from the police. A senior Egyptian Army official said no soldier would fire "one single shot" at any protester. Contrast this attitude with Mubarak's hired thugs. Consider the American Revolution: after the British were kicked out who took power? The state militias. Who was the first President? Washington, the commander of the army. What matters is whose side is the Army on, and who is ultimately calling the shots. I think the concept of real democracy in countries like Egypt is so strange, that many people cannot recognize it when it materializes right in front of them. They are convinced protests must fail. When the protests have some success, they are convinced it must actually be a military coup, no real change occurred.
Consider this: Al-Jazeera reported people kissing soldiers, who waved peace signs in celebration riding in their armored cars last night. The protesters never said they wanted to dismantle the Army did they? They said they wanted Mubarak to leave, they wanted an interim Council to oversee fair elections to create a new government. It looks like Mubarak and the Army caved in to their demands. It was outsiders, if you remember, who felt sure this would never happen. And it's outsiders now who are equating the revolution to a military coup. I think those outsiders were wrong for the last 18 days and they will be wrong again in 1 year when a new government is elected.

**edit: I'm not disagreeing with you or Alceste that this is not over, the protesters still have to ensure the military makes good on its promises. My point is the Egyptian people are the ones who ultimately have the power, and it's their duty and their responsibility to use it, this is their victory to build upon or give up on, it does not belong to the outsiders who were cheering them on.

Lets get one thing straight it was a military a coup, a bloodless one, the Army is running Egypt now Field Marshal Mohammed Hussein Tantawi is in charge thats a fact.that means in short Martial law .

Lets wait and see if they fulfill their promises and the Army are not neutral Spinks they are ingrained into the establishment in Egypt, In the long run the will do whats best for the Army. If they were neutral they wouldn't be in charge.




Egyptian army calls the shots as nation embarks on democratic transition


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/11/egypt-army-mubarak-political-reform

 

[Sahar]

I don't think you get it. It wasn't the outside world that started the protests. It wasn't the outside world that continued the protests for 18 days. It wasn't the outside world that demanded Mubarak step down. It wasn't the outside world that burned Mubarak's party buildings, tore down his posters, blocked tanks and police from entering Tahrir square, and marched by the millions on the presidential palace. It was not outsiders, or even the Army, or the security forces, that brought the entire nation of Egypt to a standstill for 18 days, stopping traffic, stopping production, halting the economy.

As Einstein said the Army is considered a neutral party. As England pointed out the Army is made of Egyptians who have proved themselves to be on the side of the people during these protests, sometimes the Army protected them from the police. A senior Egyptian Army official said no soldier would fire "one single shot" at any protester. Contrast this attitude with Mubarak's hired thugs. Consider the American Revolution: after the British were kicked out who took power? The state militias. Who was the first President? Washington, the commander of the army. What matters is whose side is the Army on, and who is ultimately calling the shots. I think the concept of real democracy in countries like Egypt is so strange, that many people cannot recognize it when it materializes right in front of them. They are convinced protests must fail. When the protests have some success, they are convinced it must actually be a military coup, no real change occurred.

Consider this: Al-Jazeera reported people kissing soldiers, who waved peace signs in celebration riding in their armored cars last night. The protesters never said they wanted to dismantle the Army did they? They said they wanted Mubarak to leave, they wanted an interim Council to oversee fair elections to create a new government. It was outsiders, if you remember, who felt sure this would never happen. And it's outsiders now who are equating the revolution to a military coup. I think those outsiders were wrong for the last 18 days and they will be wrong again in 1 year when a new government is elected.

**edit: I'm not disagreeing with you or Alceste that this is not over, the protesters still have to ensure the military makes good on its promises. My point is the Egyptian people are the ones who ultimately have the power, and it's their duty and their responsibility to use it, this is their victory to build upon or give up on, it does not belong to the outsiders who were cheering them on.

I want to shake your hands! Thank you, excellent and very well said! The people extracted their right to be the source of legitimacy. The real power is within the people now. The people could ruin the police and the security forces that worked to serve the regime, the members of this institution reaches 1,300,000 and the army reaches 400,000 and the people could destroy the interior institution in days!!!
Speaking about foreign forces to pressure...blablabla...is very insulting to the Egyptians and their revolution. The foreign governments want one thing; ensuring their interests and thank God the Egyptians realize this very well.
ِ"A message to the Western governments: you don't seek our honored life and freedoms, you seek your interests, as countries, which have been oppressing us, repressing our freedoms and robbing us for thirty years. Don't interfere in the affairs of Egypt and Egyptians. Our revolution is purely Egyptian." Wael Ghonim on his page "We All Are Khaled Sa'eed". A statement that expresses the feelings and thoughts of Egyptians.