The Soul in Heathen Belief

[The Kilted Heathen]

In Heathenry, there are multiple aspects to one's "soul".

Hugr and Munr: Often taken as "thought and memory," it is also interpreted as one's instinct and desire, or the Left Brain (hugr) and Right Brain (munr). If one has a particularly strong hugr, it might even act out that person's unconscious desires. Two peoples' hugr might also be turned towards or away from each other, leading to attraction and disgust. Hugr is also that which passes knowledge from the ages (instinct) to the individual consciousness (munr). Hugr is what informs us to fear the dark (for example,) munr is what drives us to investigate why.

Aldr: This is one's "life-age", or the number of years that are given to us by the norns. This can be shortened or taken away by dishonorable deeds, or even through the actions of others (being murdered).

Fjör: Our life itself, encompassing both unconscious and conscious aspects.

Önd: Our "life-breath"; the general word meaning "soul". This is our individuality and awareness - what makes us us - and is what was given to us by Odin at creation. This aspect of our being can be reborn, and carries elements of our personal being (a close parallel to reincarnation).

Módr: A state of intensity in which one brings forth all of one's innate power; when we become the "Most Us" possible, rather than hiding or diminishing elements of our being for a given situation.

Hamingja: One's store of "luck", which can be lent to us from other people, and is made greater by deeds of honor (and lessened by dishonor). A person with a great store of hamingja would be quite charismatic, for example, and have many things in their life go right for them. (In modern terms, it's what Western people refer to as "Karma" in that good deeds beget good results.)

Máttr (might) and Meginn (main): This is a state of blending one's "soul-strength" with one's "physical-strength". While encountered together, máttr is one's physical prowess, while one's meginn is their spiritual strength.

Ørlög: This is the "ur-law", and the root of all being. To be without ørlög is to not exist in any meaningful way. This is what makes us - at our core - human, rather than a wolf; our ørlög is different from that of canines.

Hamr: This is our spiritual body, or the "us" that exists below our physical skin. Not necessarily the form of a human, this is how we view ourselves when we dream; the more clearly one can view themselves in such a state, the more aware of one's hamr they are.

Warding Wights: These are spiritual guardians and guides (also known as fylgja) that defend us from ill-fate, spiritual attack, and other unforseen dangers.

Kin-Fetch: An ancestral guardian, typically a female spirit. These are akin to bean sidhe, and are tied to a family line, rather than a particular person.

(sourced from Our Troth: Volume II - Living the Troth)

 

[Duke_Leto]

These are all recent inventions, aren't they? From what I recall, not much is recorded of Germanic religion besides the Eddas and the occasional runestone.

 

[Holdasown]

These are all recent inventions, aren't they? From what I recall, not much is recorded of Germanic religion besides the Eddas and the occasional runestone.

There are four parts derived or taken from the Edda's and two more that are universal. I am pretty sure there has to be some kind of basis for the set of them or the Troth would not list them. I don't see any out of line with standard Norse/Germanic thinking. The Nine Virtues are modern. That is Stephen McNallen.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Belief in multiple souls is world-wide; in fact, belief in a single soul is rather rare outside modern Western society.

The things listed above are obviously not all souls, but there is evidence for Germanic belief in multiple souls. Old English had two words: sáwol and gást. They survive as soul and ghost but the meanings have shifted.

The sáwol was what anthropologists call the body soul, like the ancient Egyptian koi and the Chinese po. It is the animating principle, what distinguishes a living being from a corpse. After death, it gradually dissolves.

The gást (compare the German Geist) was the free soul, like the Egyptian bai and the Chinese hun. This is the real us, detachable in projection, and surviving after death.

Further distinctions can be made. Our personality, mental capacity, and emotions are obviously affected by the body and may be recognised as a third ego soul, as is done by the Eskimo.

One can also distinguish as aspects of the ego soul, or as separate entities, the mind, volition, and the emotional centre, like the Greek nous, menos, and thymos. This explains why we cannot always synchronise the three: we cannot always will an action which we know is desirable, and it's pointless to tell some-one to "feel happy". In the USA, most plains tribes distinguish nous and thymos.

 

[Podo]

Our Troth, as a source, conflicts me. On one hand, a lot of it is very well-sourced. On the other, a lot of it is utter garbage and self-referential, with many sources being their own magazine, or blog posts from their own authors being used to validate their claims. It's not terrible, but it isn't great either. From what I remember of reading Our Troth Vol 1, this list was primarily lifted from an Anglo-Saxon source, wasn't it?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I believe there's an even blend of Anglo-Saxon, Old Norse, and Icelandic.

 

[Podo]

I like me some Anglo-Saxon sources. For whatever reason, the Saxon sources speak more to me than the Icelandic or Old Norse, though there's nothing at all wrong with the others. Mad respect for the Germanic worldview, has I.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Sure! The book did also give AS sources, but I figured that Old Norse would be more applicable (and personally, it's what I use). From AS though:

Mynd: Our memory, intellect, and emotions. This includes the mynd (mind), hyge (high) and mód (mood), which can be broken down into further aspects. For the mynd, there is further the min and the orþanc. Min is personal memories of deeds done in one's current lifetime, as well as knowledge and wisdom learned. The orþanc is inborn thought, ancestral memory, and instinct.

Hyge: The hyge is made of the angit, sefa, and wit. Angit is the five senses, which collect information from the world around us. It is our "intelligence agency". Our sefa uses this knowledge, and is our reasoning and thought process. Wit is our ability to recall and properly use the correct data for the correct time.

Mód and Wode: The mód is our seat of emotions, and one of the more secret or private parts of the AS Heathen soul. Mód is structured emotion, whereas wode governs more wild emotions like ecstasy and inspiration.

Spæd: This is one's store of spiritual luck, and is tied with one's deeds and honor

Fæcce (Fetch): Analogous to the fylgia , the fæcce also takes note of ones deeds (recorded in one's fate,) and passes what has been done along one's family line. One doesn't see their fæcce unless in dreams, or right before death when the being guides them over into the next life.

Hame: This is the spiritual self that underlies our physical bodies. This contains the mynd, hyge, and spæd, summarized as ferth - which is taken to be "us" beyond our physical appearance.

Athem: This is the link between our body and our "soul", and is our "life-force" that keeps us sustained when our hame isn't inhabiting our body (such as world-travelling or dreaming). Without the athem, our soul would depart our body; it is the chains which bind the two together, strengthened by what we eat, drink , and breathe. Upon death, the athem fades.

Lich: Our physical body.

 

[Podo]

Oh! Rad, thanks for posting that

 

[Hildeburh]

Sure! The book did also give AS sources, but I figured that Old Norse would be more applicable (and personally, it's what I use). From AS though:

Mynd: Our memory, intellect, and emotions. This includes the mynd (mind), hyge (high) and mód (mood), which can be broken down into further aspects. For the mynd, there is further the min and the orþanc. Min is personal memories of deeds done in one's current lifetime, as well as knowledge and wisdom learned. The orþanc is inborn thought, ancestral memory, and instinct.

Hyge: The hyge is made of the angit, sefa, and wit. Angit is the five senses, which collect information from the world around us. It is our "intelligence agency". Our sefa uses this knowledge, and is our reasoning and thought process. Wit is our ability to recall and properly use the correct data for the correct time.

Mód and Wode: The mód is our seat of emotions, and one of the more secret or private parts of the AS Heathen soul. Mód is structured emotion, whereas wode governs more wild emotions like ecstasy and inspiration.

Spæd: This is one's store of spiritual luck, and is tied with one's deeds and honor

Fæcce (Fetch): Analogous to the fylgia , the fæcce also takes note of ones deeds (recorded in one's fate,) and passes what has been done along one's family line. One doesn't see their fæcce unless in dreams, or right before death when the being guides them over into the next life.

Hame: This is the spiritual self that underlies our physical bodies. This contains the mynd, hyge, and spæd, summarized as ferth - which is taken to be "us" beyond our physical appearance.

Athem: This is the link between our body and our "soul", and is our "life-force" that keeps us sustained when our hame isn't inhabiting our body (such as world-travelling or dreaming). Without the athem, our soul would depart our body; it is the chains which bind the two together, strengthened by what we eat, drink , and breathe. Upon death, the athem fades.

Lich: Our physical body.

Didn't know whether to laugh or cringe when I read this. At the very least it should ring bells with AS pagans that a list that purports to represent the AS Heathen soul doesn't include an Old English word for the soul.

Anyone interested in corrections to this list I am more than happy to correct it, otherwise I won't waste my time.

 

[Hildeburh]

For those interested in the shape of the Norse soul you can't get much better than this. Here is pt 1 of a 3 in a lecture series by Professor Neil Price:


Cornell lecture series; The Shape of the Norse Soul

For all three lectures:

The Viking Mind - CornellCast

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The Old English 'sawol' dates from 917; after England converted to Christianity. Why then would there be an Old English word for "soul" relative to pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon beliefs?

But I'm only placing down here what is put in Our Troth. Surely any corrections that you feel can be made are better presented than an hour long youtube video? And are these corrections to Norse beliefs or Anglo-Saxon?

 

[Podo]

Didn't know whether to laugh or cringe when I read this. At the very least it should ring bells with AS pagans that a list that purports to represent the AS Heathen soul doesn't include an Old English word for the soul.

Anyone interested in corrections to this list I am more than happy to correct it, otherwise I won't waste my time.

As Ragin Pagan says, doesn't the OE word for soul only appear post-Christianity? The word for it is therefore steeped in Christian baggage. Using the OE catch-all wouldn't really add much to our modern judeo-christian understanding of the soul. Furthermore, the Troth version (at least that part) is pretty well sourced, so it certainly isn't nonsense, even if you particularly do not like it.

Also, be less of a condescending prick about it next time

 

[Hildeburh]

As Ragin Pagan says, doesn't the OE word for soul only appear post-Christianity? The word for it is therefore steeped in Christian baggage. Using the OE catch-all wouldn't really add much to our modern judeo-christian understanding of the soul. Furthermore, the Troth version (at least that part) is pretty well sourced, so it certainly isn't nonsense, even if you particularly do not like it.

Also, be less of a condescending prick about it next time

Replies like these are why I dont bother, I was simply making the point that the list cannot be considered a reflection of "The Soul in Heathen Belief" if it does not contain Old English words for the soul or even provide a coherent discussion of AS sources on this issue.

If the Troth's list is purporting to reflect the AS soul it is conflating soul with mind; two separate entities in AS belief. I am happy to go through the list paragraph by paragraph; but I often find that people are happy with the eclecticism of organisations like the Troth and get abusive or defensive.............being abused just gets a little old after a while.

 

[Hildeburh]

The Old English 'sawol' dates from 917; after England converted to Christianity. Why then would there be an Old English word for "soul" relative to pre-Christian Anglo-Saxon beliefs?

But I'm only placing down here what is put in Our Troth. Surely any corrections that you feel can be made are better presented than an hour long youtube video? And are these corrections to Norse beliefs or Anglo-Saxon?

See reply above.

Seriously, you didn't find the lecture on The Shape of the Norse Soul interesting? I would have thought that any additions I could have made on the Troth's norse soul list would be redundant after watching the video.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

being abused just gets a little old after a while.

Yes, as does the constant "you're doing it wrong"-ism that comes from so many corners of Heathenry, and of which frankly you do quite a bit here. All the "that's cool for you, but it's not Heathen/Asatru/etc, etc". I'll ask a bit more directly here, why would a Heathen belief need to contain the Old English for soul, when that word is and was developed under Christian context? That just does not follow.

 

[Hildeburh]

Mynd: Our memory, intellect, and emotions. This includes the mynd (mind), hyge (high) and mód (mood), which can be broken down into further aspects. For the mynd, there is further the min and the orþanc. Min is personal memories of deeds done in one's current lifetime, as well as knowledge and wisdom learned. The orþanc is inborn thought, ancestral memory, and instinct.

In the Old English corpus the ‘mind’ revolves around the five key words: mód, hyge, sefa, ferhð and (ge)mynd. As A. Harbus (2002) concluded, “ The most common word for 'mind' is mód found over 2500 times in the corpus, along with approximately 900 instances in total of the other simplex nouns — ferhð, hyge, sefa and (ge)mynd”; the author also points out that these words were often deployed for alliterative convenience.

The ‘mind’ words mentioned above are polysemous (have several meanings), so their meanings often overlap; particularly hyge, sefa and mód. Terms for the ‘mind’; ferhð, hyge; mod; sefa and (ge) mynd refer to the mind in a general sense but each term also has specific meaning in Old English poetry. These words also form compounds such as, módgemynd (intelligence of mind), ferhðsefa (thought mind) and módsefa ( the commonest of all the mind compounds).

The polysemous nature of these words are obvious in their definitions:

Mynd = mind; memory; remembrance; memorial or commemoration. Harbus (2002) found that (ge)mynd is found proportionately throughout the corpus (530x prose, 39x poetry); because this term alliterates on 'm'.
Hyge = masc noun thought, mind; heart; disposition; intention or courage; can also mean the top part of the gullet. In Old English poetry hyge appears to have connoted the place of thought or intention, occurrences of hyge in Old English texts reveal that this word’s prototypical meaning concerns the cognitive mind with preference towards emotive contexts. Kazuyosh Toeda in her study of the Old English word hyge states that “hyge distinctively dissociates itself from the soul words; such as sáwol and gast”.
Mód = heart ; mind ; feeling; courage ; pride ; grief ; anger; state of mind; arrogance; inner man/ spiritual part of man as opposed to the bodily part of man.
Sefa= masc noun mind; spirit; heart. Used to indicate spirit in Old English poem The Seafarer. According Harbus (2002), in Old English poetry sefa usually connotes 'understanding' or 'frame of mind' rather than 'mind', though in some cases the broader meaning is perhaps to be understood.

Mistakes in this passage:
Mód does not translate as mood.
Hyge does not translate as high that would be hēah
Orþanc = masc noun: skill; art; contrivance; cunning. Can therefore mean inborn thought, depending on the construction and context of the sentence. Not used in the context expressed by the author in regards to ancestral memory or instinct.
Min means small. Possibly he means mín pers pron first person singular genitive = my/of me eg. Mín nama is Hildeburh.( my name is….). Otherwise has nothing to do with the AS mind or soul. Perhaps ingeþanc masc noun: private thought, conscience would better reflect personal memories.

Hyge: The hyge is made of the angit, sefa, and wit. Angit is the five senses, which collect information from the world around us. It is our "intelligence agency". Our sefa uses this knowledge, and is our reasoning and thought process. Wit is our ability to recall and properly use the correct data for the correct time.

Hyge as expressed by A. Harbus (2002) seems to indicate the place of thought or intention, though this word can function as a near-synonym for mod, connoting 'mind' generally. Rather than a specific cognitive, emotional, or spiritual, hyge can connote the thoughts in the mind as well as the faculty itself”.

Mistakes in this passage:
Angit no such word in Old English. It's andgit neut noun, other forms andgiet, andgyt or andget meaning understanding; knowledge; perception. In the suggested context of the five senses it is angitu; þa fif andgitu (the five senses)
Wit incorrect. Wit pers pron dual = we two. Probably means witt more commonly gewitt strong Neuter Noun = understanding; intellect; sense; knowledge; consciousness; conscience. Gewit forms a kenning for the mind in gewitloca 'container of intelligence (the mind).

Mód and Wode: The mód is our seat of emotions, and one of the more secret or private parts of the AS Heathen soul. Mód is structured emotion, whereas wode governs more wild emotions like ecstasy and inspiration.

Mistakes in this passage:
Wode = is Middle English not Old English. Wóde in Old English is hemlock (as in Wódewistle). Wód on the other hand means mad/angry/enraged/furious/crazy as in Wóden (Wód = fury/anger/madness + en = made of). Wód does not govern anything it is exactly as it translates.

Spæd: This is one's store of spiritual luck, and is tied with one's deeds and honor

Spæd I have searched the databases for this word but it does not exist in the Old English lexicon. The closest is spædu = spade or sped= success; prosperity; power; speed; riches. Spæd however is Danish for tiny/tender/infant. If anyone has any sources I would like to read them.

There is no Old English word for luck, luck is Middle English. The closest concept would be wyrd fem noun (what happens, fate, fortune, chance), odd to have a discussion on AS worldview of any kind without the inclusion of wyrd.

Fæcce (Fetch): Analogous to the fylgia , the fæcce also takes note of ones deeds (recorded in one's fate,) and passes what has been done along one's family line. One doesn't see their fæcce unless in dreams, or right before death when the being guides them over into the next life.

Fæcce. Textual evidence for the word fæcce is obscure, it is found only twice, glossed for mære (a monster/creature terrifying people during sleep also known as being hag ridden). Mære has cognates in most Germanic languages all with the similar meaning of a supernatural female creature that commits night assaults on people, so fæcce would be analogous with Old Norse mara.

'FECCAN' - Bosworth–Toller Anglo-Saxon Dictionary
http://bosworth.ff.cuni.cz/finder/3/mære

Confusion surrounds the word fæcce, in that its origin is contested; it may or may not be Old English and it may or may not be the origin of the word fetch; as apparition/wraith/prophetic double. With the exception of glossed for mære you will not find this word in Old English databases. The word fetch has become a modern English gloss for the Old Norse verb fylgia (which means “follower”, attested in Njál’s Saga, The Song of Helgi Hjőrvarson and The Saga of Hallfred). However, the word was not used in this context by Anglo Saxons and the description of the fetch is not drawn from AS sources. Recorded in one's fate, that would be wyrd but there is no AS textual evidence that deeds are recorded in one's wyrd.

There is a discussion of the word fetch here

A Hiberno-Norse Etymology for English fetch 'apparition of a living person'

Hame: This is the spiritual self that underlies our physical bodies. This contains the mynd, hyge, and spæd, summarized as ferth - which is taken to be "us" beyond our physical appearance.

Mistakes in this passage:
Hame no such word in Old English. It's Hama = a natural covering; integument; membrane; skin; slough of a serpent. Physical body is líchama.
Ferth. I don't know whether the author is alluding to ferhð (varients: ferhþ ferrþ. fyrhþ, ferþ, ferht, masc noun= spirit, mind), in AS literature ferhð often seems to connote the spiritual aspect of the mind. Or Feorh, which is an elusive word in the AS corpus, as Lockett (2011) indicates that feorh is often confused with ferhð but the evidence shows that feorh is separate from both soul and mind.

Athem: This is the link between our body and our "soul", and is our "life-force" that keeps us sustained when our hame isn't inhabiting our body (such as world-travelling or dreaming). Without the athem, our soul would depart our body; it is the chains which bind the two together, strengthened by what we eat, drink , and breathe. Upon death, the athem fades.

This passage is a mess and difficult to untangle.
Athem is not Old English; possibly Middle English from ethem =breath, vapor, puff, blast which is in Old English is ǣþm= breath, to breathe. Etymologically linked to Sanskrit atma "essence, breath, soul," from PIE *etmen "breath" (a root found in Sanskrit and Germanic; source of Old English æðm)

atman | Origin and meaning of atman by Online Etymology Dictionary and Indo-European Lexicon: PIE Etymon and IE Reflexes

Unfortunately this has little to support it in AS literature, in AS literature the two words to for soul are sáwol (soul) and gast (spirit); in Old English gast is used to gloss the Latin Spiritus. As Lockett (2011) shows in AS literature the soul enters the body at animation and leaves at death and does very little in between; the soul and the ‘mind’ are discrete entities. Feorh (condition of being alive or the life span) in AS literature may refer to ‘life force’. It is poorly understood but Lockett (2011) suggests that is, “ functionally and substantially discrete from both mind and soul".

The window on the AS mind and soul is found in AS literature and as Godden (2002) observes, “two distinct traditions of thought are evident among the Anglo-Saxons'. Godden (2002) found that the first is the Latin one of Alfred, Alcuin and Elfric”. 'Secondly', Godden (2002) states, “there is a vernacular tradition, more deeply rooted in the language, represented particularly by the poets but occasionally reflected even in the work of Alfred and Elfric, it was a tradition which preserved the ancient distinction of soul and mind, while associating the mind at least as much with passion as with intellect.'

Lich: Our physical body.

Lich spelt wrong. líc = a body living or dead, usually living. Líchama = our physical body in contrast to the spiritual part of man. Can also mean corpse.

Definitions from:
Welcome to the digital edition of the Bosworth-Toller Anglo-Saxon Dictionary
EOW: Modern - Old English Translator
A Thesaurus of Old English :: Search

References
Leslie Lockett: Anglo-Saxon Psychologies in the Vernacular and Latin Traditions (2011)
M. Godden: Anglo Saxons on the Mind (2002)
A. Harbus: Life of the Mind in Old English Poety ( 2002)
Kazuyosh Toeda: A study of old English Hyge.

 

[Hildeburh]

Yes, as does the constant "you're doing it wrong"-ism that comes from so many corners of Heathenry, and of which frankly you do quite a bit here. All the "that's cool for you, but it's not Heathen/Asatru/etc, etc". I'll ask a bit more directly here, why would a Heathen belief need to contain the Old English for soul, when that word is and was developed under Christian context? That just does not follow.

Rubbish and boo hoo.

The Soul in Heathen Belief" is your thread not mine explain it to me, you presented eclectic poorly researched fluff.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Rubbish and boo hoo.

You're the one that was complaining about being "attacked".

The Soul in Heathen Belief"

Oh no, how dare I use modern-familiar language in a thread title! You'll notice, I'm sure, that there's also not an Old Norse word for "soul" - not even önd is truly "soul" in the conventional sense. But tell you what, next time I'll be sure to run it past your Asapopeness so we don't run into another session of "here comes hilde to tell us how we're doing it all wrong".

 

[Hildeburh]

Dude, you continue

You're the one that was complaining about being "attacked".


Oh no, how dare I use modern-familiar language in a thread title! You'll notice, I'm sure, that there's also not an Old Norse word for "soul" - not even önd is truly "soul" in the conventional sense. But tell you what, next time I'll be sure to run it past your Asapopeness so we don't run into another session of "here comes hilde to tell us how we're doing it all wrong".

Dude you continue to score own goals.