The space was smoke

[FearGod]

Perhaps the use of the term "smoke" was used for lack of a better one, to describe a universe which remained formless until the supposed "Allah" came roaring in to organize the whole mess?

The book of Genesis tells a similar tale, and is much older than anything the Islamists ever wrote:



Let's compare now:



Is there much difference in the basic premise? Which verse came first?

Look, the human brain has something on the order of 100 billion neurons, many of which are potentially capable of making 10,000 interconnects to others. The voltages are rather high, in the millivolts, while most bioelectricity occurs in the microvolt range. Lots of activity going on in that skull.

Is is remotely possible that Muhammad's "smoke" hypothesis is the result of this advanced hardware, which "came into being" through the process of natural selection instead of some secret wisdom handed down by a sky-daddy?

Religious texts should be used for inspiration, mixing them with science is always a failure. And I think the whole Muhammad-as-prophet thing is a load of crap, and sorry for being snarky but get with the times people.

I didn't say that the quran is talking about science but my point is how the verse is describing
the scene for the beginning of the creation and why the prophet needed to make it up if it wasn't
really a message from the creator?

 

[Father Heathen]

People's opinions is a thing and the quran is one other thing

Scientific facts aren't opinions.

 

[shunyadragon]

It's about the case at the beginning of the creation and not 1500 years ago,
I said the word Gases wasn't used during that era, but the scene is look like smoke.

Again, 500, 1000, 1500 or 3000 years ago the ISM gas formations were not visible, and obviously unknown to humans until the modern telescopes. Humans in scripture at best speculate as to what Creation looked at.

Yes of course what we see is the reflected light and this how we see all things around us.

In this case not true. Even up close these ISM gases would not be visible as smoke on earth is visible.

 

[FearGod]

Scientific facts aren't opinions.

I wasn't talking about scientific facts, it's about some religious people denying the theory
of evolution, so we don't have to blame the quran for their wrong opinions.

 

[FearGod]

Again, 500, 1000, 1500 or 3000 years ago the ISM gas formations were not visible, and obviously unknown to humans until the modern telescopes. Humans in scripture at best speculate as to what Creation looked at.

So you think the prophet was speculating that it was like smoke at the beginning.

In this case not true. Even up close these ISM gases would not be visible as smoke on earth is visible.

How it was look like at the beginning during the formation of earth?

How Was Earth Formed?

The core accretion model
Approximately 4.6 billion years ago, the solar system was a cloud of dust and gas known as a solar nebula. Gravity collapsed the material in on itself as it began to spin, forming the sun in the center of the nebula.
How Was Earth Formed?

How Earth Was Born

 

[QuestioningMind]

At the beginning it was smoke and scientists were able to trace the formation of stars
from the remnants of the smoke.

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)

It looks like smoke, the same view of the smoke of cigarette, those who tried to refute the verse
were focusing on the word smoke to be wrong, close but not scientifically the right word.

Now if the quran was made up then why the author has to tell that the space was smoke at the
beginning of the creation, what benefit he gets from describing how it looks like at the beginning.

Moreover it describes that it's planned to be so and not just happened to be so with no choice(unwillingly).

Just your thoughts, why the prophet needed to make up such a verse if he was making it from his imaginations?

So you think that a book describing the beginning of the universe as 'smoke' and the fact that one could say that the gaseous state that the universe began in looks like 'smoke' is significant in some way because of why?

 

[Onyx]

I didn't say that the quran is talking about science but my point is how the verse is describing the scene for the beginning of the creation and why the prophet needed to make it up if it wasn't really a message from the creator?

I'm sorry, but if we aren't including science in the discussion, then why was this thread posted in the "Science and Religion" section?

Humans have advanced brains capable of solving some problems ahead of the ability to test them. Einstein is one example, perhaps Muhammad is another in a lesser sense given the lack of understanding at the time.

Ask yourself this question: If Muhammad was so smart, why didn't he formulate Ohm's law, the theory of relativity, or anything about the hard problem of consciousness? We stand to learn a lot if the right questions are asked, but I think the answers come from within, not without. And this is why I reject conventional religions for favor of choosing my own path.

 

[FearGod]

So you think that a book describing the beginning of the universe as 'smoke' and the fact that one could say that the gaseous state that the universe began in looks like 'smoke' is significant in some way because of why?

If the author was making it up then why he needs to mention such a thing which
later on found to be true?

 

[FearGod]

I'm sorry, but if we aren't including science in the discussion, then why was this thread posted in the "Science and Religion" section?

Humans have advanced brains capable of solving some problems ahead of the ability to test them. Einstein is one example, perhaps Muhammad is another in a lesser sense given the lack of understanding at the time.

Ask yourself this question: If Muhammad was so smart, why didn't he formulate Ohm's law, the theory of relativity, or anything about the hard problem of consciousness? We stand to learn a lot if the right questions are asked, but I think the answers come from within, not without. And this is why I reject conventional religions for favor of choosing my own path.

Very hard to think that the space was in a smoke condition, why Muhammad needed to
make such claim?

 

[QuestioningMind]

So you think that a book describing the beginning of the universe as 'smoke' and the fact that one could say that the gaseous state that the universe began in looks like 'smoke' is significant in what some way because of why?

 

[QuestioningMind]

If the author was making it up then why he needs to mention such a thing which
later on found to be true?

It's called happening to make an accurate prediction... as long as you and other are willing to pretend that the universe actually began as 'smoke'. But since that's not really true, your entire claim is nonsense.

 

[ChristineM]

At the beginning it was smoke and scientists were able to trace the formation of stars
from the remnants of the smoke.

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)

It looks like smoke, the same view of the smoke of cigarette, those who tried to refute the verse
were focusing on the word smoke to be wrong, close but not scientifically the right word.

Now if the quran was made up then why the author has to tell that the space was smoke at the
beginning of the creation, what benefit he gets from describing how it looks like at the beginning.

Moreover it describes that it's planned to be so and not just happened to be so with no choice(unwillingly).

Just your thoughts, why the prophet needed to make up such a verse if he was making it from his imaginations?

Space immediately after the bb was hot dense quantum plasma, no atoms had yet coalesced. Smoke is made of molecules (combination of atoms). without atom's no molecules, without molecules, no smoke.

 

[Father Heathen]

I wasn't talking about scientific facts, it's about some religious people denying the theory
of evolution, so we don't have to blame the quran for their wrong opinions.

Oh. Carry on.

 

[FearGod]

Space immediately after the bb was hot dense quantum plasma, no atoms had yet coalesced. Smoke is made of molecules (combination of atoms). without atom's no molecules, without molecules, no smoke.

This is how it was look like, it looks like smoke, I'm not saying what it contains
or consists of, but the the view looks smoke.

 

[ChristineM]

This is how it was look like, it looks like smoke, I'm not saying what it contains
or consists of, but the the view looks smoke.

Interesting that someone had a handy camera 13.7 billion years ago. Where did they stand to take that picture?

No, the beginning of the universe could not be photographed because light did not exist?

 

[james blunt]

because light did not exist?

And darkness did not exist.

 

[ChristineM]

And darkness did not exist.

Darkness is absence of light, no light therefore darkness

 

[james blunt]

Darkness is absence of light, no light therefore darkness

Something else people do not understand ...

 

[exchemist]

Space immediately after the bb was hot dense quantum plasma, no atoms had yet coalesced. Smoke is made of molecules (combination of atoms). without atom's no molecules, without molecules, no smoke.

Agreed. "Let There Be Light" seems as close as anything to the situation. Until ~380,000yrs from the Big Bang anyway. "Smoke" would have come a lot later.

 

[james blunt]

Agreed. "Let There Be Light" .

Let there be objects of darkness and then let there be light to make the objects of darkness visible. You really should learn more Mr C , I have explained this to you several times now elsewhere.