The space was smoke

[FearGod]

Here's how the rainy clouds look like.

 

[ChristineM]

There was light.
Where Did the First Light in the Universe Come From? Astrophysicists Now Know

Light could not exist until photons formed. A few seconds after the bb during the photon epoch during which photons (light) and electrons coalesced.

The link you provided use the cmb as its source,

he cosmic microwave background (CMB) is an almost-uniform background of radio waves that fill the universe. The CMB is, in effect, the leftover heat of the Big Bang itself - it was released when the universe became cool enough to become transparent to light and other electromagnetic radiation, 100,000 years after its birth
The Cosmic Microwave Background

 

[Native]

Tell me where in history it was thought to be smoke, to make it easier for you, I think the prophet thought about it when he saw the clouds in the sky in a rainy day and then he said Oh, I found it, that was the beginning of the creation, kind of smoke.

-------------
You:
"I think the prophet thought about it when he saw the clouds in the sky in a rainy day and then he said Oh, I found it, that was the beginning of the creation, kind of smoke"

You seemingly yourself have found where in history "smoke" is mentioned in the connection with the creation, so why are you asking for further examples of smoke?

 

[FearGod]

Light could not exist until photons formed. A few seconds after the bb during the photon epoch during which photons (light) and electrons coalesced.

The link you provided use the cmb as its source,

he cosmic microwave background (CMB) is an almost-uniform background of radio waves that fill the universe. The CMB is, in effect, the leftover heat of the Big Bang itself - it was released when the universe became cool enough to become transparent to light and other electromagnetic radiation, 100,000 years after its birth
The Cosmic Microwave Background

Are you really serious that light should exist first to regard that it was seen as smoke or not?

 

[FearGod]

-------------
You:
"I think the prophet thought about it when he saw the clouds in the sky in a rainy day and then he said Oh, I found it, that was the beginning of the creation, kind of smoke"

You seemingly yourself have found where in history "smoke" is mentioned in the connection with the creation, so why are you asking for further examples of smoke?

I believe that the description that the space was smoke during the process of creation
can't be just an imagination of a layman.

 

[ChristineM]

Are you really serious that light should exist first to regard that it was seen as smoke or not?

Considering sub atomic particles (photons/electrons) formed before atoms then yes i am serious.

Smoke could not form until at least the first stars had begun to die, hundreds of millions of years after the bb

I think you need to study some cosmology, particularly the conditions in the universe at the time just after the bb. Here is a wiki briefly outlining events.

Chronology of the universe - Wikipedia

 

[FearGod]

Considering sub atomic particles (photons/electrons) formed before atoms then yes i am serious.

Smoke could not form until at least the first stars had begun to die, hundreds of millions of years after the bb

I think you need to study some cosmology, particularly the conditions in the universe at the time just after the bb. Here is a wiki briefly outlining events.

Chronology of the universe - Wikipedia

This may help you to understand.

 

[Godobeyer]

The word "smoke" itself could be understood in enough different ways that saying the verse provides any special scientific insight strikes me as overreaching and constructing an argument around a manifestation of the Forer effect.

Furthermore, on a more tangential note, I find it rather inconsistent that many of the same people who claim science confirms the Qur'an's supposedly divine origin also readily dismiss scientific facts when said facts contradict their religious beliefs. Ask yourself how many people who tout the Qur'an's "scientific miracles" deny--out of religious conviction--the theory of evolution or the scientific evidence that homosexuality is a natural, healthy orientation and it may become clear that much of the "scientific miracles" rhetoric is a mere exercise in ad hoc demagoguery.

Quran telling facts discovered by scientific recently.
Its not miracles,its facts told to us before 1400 years ago without help of science tools.

I think God used "smoke "word because word "gas" not used yet

 

[exchemist]

Quran telling facts discovered by scientific recently.
Its not miracles,its facts told to us before 1400 years ago without help of science tools.

I think God used "smoke "word because word "gas" not used yet

What facts would these be, please? How does the image of smoke tell us anything useful about the presumed origin of the cosmos?

What we think (and it remains a rather speculative model) is that at the start there was radiation that progressively condensed into a plasma of sub-atomic particles and radiation, which had expanded and cooled enough for matter and radiation to separate, so that space could be become transparent to radiation, about 380,000yrs after the start. According to this model there was no "gas" until this point. Plasma is not gas.

The image of "smoke" does not suggest to me anything about radiation, or expansion, or condensation. Or gas, for that matter. So not very helpful at all, in terms of scientific facts or theories.

I think we would all do far better to treat the Bible and the Quran as literary works containing messages for humanity that may be divinely inspired, and not as science textbooks. That was never their purpose. Trying to force them into that role is bound to show up their serious shortcomings at fulfilling it.

 

[FearGod]

What facts would these be, please? How does the image of smoke tell us anything useful about the presumed origin of the cosmos?

What we think (and it remains a rather speculative model) is that at the start there was radiation that progressively condensed into a plasma of sub-atomic particles and radiation, which had expanded and cooled enough for matter and radiation to separate, so that space could be become transparent to radiation, about 380,000yrs after the start. According to this model there was no "gas" until this point. Plasma is not gas.

The image of "smoke" does not suggest to me anything about radiation, or expansion, or condensation. Or gas, for that matter. So not very helpful at all, in terms of scientific facts or theories.

The smoke is at the time of creating our galaxy; somehow similar to this image.

I think we would all do far better to treat the Bible and the Quran as literary works containing messages for humanity that may be divinely inspired, and not as science textbooks. That was never their purpose. Trying to force them into that role is bound to show up their serious shortcomings at fulfilling it.

For me I need evidence and not just a blind faith, it's amazing to mention that it was smoke
during the time of creating our galaxy, for me at least.

 

[exchemist]

The smoke is at the time of creating our galaxy; somehow similar to this image.

For me I need evidence and not just a blind faith, it's amazing to mention that it was smoke
during the time of creating our galaxy, for me at least.

But this image does not represent, in any way at all, the earliest stages of the cosmos, as I described in my previous post. So if the Quran says the cosmos looked like this picture at the start, it is unambiguously wrong according to current science. No observer would have been able to see an image like that until 380,000 years after the start, because only at that point did the universe become transparent to radiation.

But I see you are now talking about the formation, not of the cosmos, but of our galaxy. That is a different matter. I would not be surprised if the Prophet was inspired by gazing at the Milky Way, on some clear and starlit night in the Hejaz.

 

[ChristineM]

This may help you to understand.

How would that help me understand your fantasy? It even says the sun took 10 million years to form.

A nebula could not form until a supermassive sun exploded. Such a sun could not collapse and explode for hundreds of millions of years after the bb.

So again you provide irrelevant information in the blind hope of disproving science in favour of a bronze age campfire story.

 

[FearGod]

But this image does not represent, in any way at all, the earliest stages of the cosmos, as I described in my previous post. So if the Quran says the cosmos looked like this picture at the start, it is unambiguously wrong according to current science. No observer would have been able to see an image like that unless 380,000 years after the start, because only at that point did the universe become transparent to radiation.

But I see you are now talking about the formation, not of the cosmos, but of our galaxy. That is a different matter. I would not be surprised if the Prophet was inspired by gazing at the Milky Way, on some clear and starlit night in the Hejaz.

The milky way was known for so long, but no, the verse has nothing to do with the milky way.

Yes it's about the date of creating our galaxy.

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)

 

[FearGod]

How would that help me understand your fantasy? It even says the sun took 10 million years to form.

A nebula could not form until a supermassive sun exploded. Such a sun could not collapse and explode for hundreds of millions of years after the bb.

So again you provide irrelevant information in the blind hope of disproving science in favour of a bronze age campfire story.

Where did I try to disprove science?

You're the one denying facts because you're worried and you're just fooling your own self.

 

[exchemist]

The milky way was known for so long, but no, the verse has nothing to do with the milky way.

Yes it's about the date of creating our galaxy.

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."(41:11)

Our galaxy is the Milky Way.

 

[FearGod]

Our galaxy is the Milky Way.

Yes it's.

Again, if the prophet thought about the milky way then it was known and it has a name which
has nothing to do with smoke and he could mention it by its known name if he was making
it up.

 

[ChristineM]

Where did I try to disprove science?

You're the one denying facts because you're worried and you're just fooling your own self.

Every comment you make on this subject is an attempt to disprove science

I am providing facts, cosmological facts that prove smoke could not exist for eons after the bb.

All you have done is provide evidence to confirm that yet you seem unable to comprehend

 

[exchemist]

Yes it's.

I think the Prophet was being figurative. I can vividly remember the intensity of the stars in the Arabian desert at night, if there was no moon (and provided you get away from the coasts where the haze from the sea obscures everything). I don't find "smoke" at all scientifically informative, as I've explained.

 

[FearGod]

Our galaxy is the Milky Way.

Every comment you make on this subject is an attempt to disprove science

I am providing facts, cosmological facts that prove smoke could not exist for eons after the bb.

All you have done is provide evidence to confirm that yet you seem unable to comprehend

This one is speechless, all what you need is your eyes and your brain.

 

[FearGod]

I think the Prophet was being figurative. I can vividly remember the intensity of the stars in the Arabian desert at night, if there was no moon (and provided you get away from the coasts where the haze from the sea obscures everything). I don't find "smoke" at all scientifically informative, as I've explained.

Just be sincere and answer this question.

Do you agree that during the formation of the galaxies the medium looks like smoke?
Please answer what you can see and not what smoke means