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The trinity is false - I have proof
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
learner Daniel
Active Member
Matthew 24:30
“Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory.
John 12:23
Jesus said to them, “The time has come for the Son of Man to receive his glory.
John 13:31
Jesus Talks About His Death
When Judas was gone, Jesus said, “Now is the time for the Son of Man to receive his glory. And God will receive glory through him.
John 13:32
If God receives glory through him, he will give glory to the Son through himself. And that will happen very soon.”
John 14:13
And if you ask for anything in my name, I will do it for you. Then the Father’s glory will be shown through the Son.
John 17:1
Jesus Prays for Himself and His Followers
After Jesus said these things, he looked toward heaven and prayed, “Father, the time has come. Give glory to your Son so that the Son can give glory to you.
John 17:5
And now, Father, give me glory with you. Give me the glory I had with you before the world was made.
John 17:24
“Father, I want these people you have given me to be with me in every place I am. I want them to see my glory—the glory you gave me because you loved me before the world was made.
Romans 8:17
If we are God’s children, we will get the blessings God has for his people. He will give us all that he has given Christ. But we must suffer like Christ suffered. Then we will be able to share his glory.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: glory
Isaiah 42
Easy-to-Read Version
The Lord’s Special Servant
42 “Here is my servant,
the one I support.
He is the one I have chosen,
and I am very pleased with him.
I have filled him with my Spirit,
and he will bring justice to the nations.
2 He will not cry out or shout
or try to make himself heard in the streets.
3 He will not break even a crushed reed.[a]
He will not put out even the weakest flame.
He will bring true justice.
4 He will not grow weak or give up
until he has brought justice to the world.
And people in faraway places will hope to receive his teachings.”
The Lord Is Ruler and Maker of the World
5 The Lord, the true God, said these things. (He created the sky and spread it out over the earth. He formed the earth and everything it produced. He breathes life into all the people on earth. He gives a spirit to everyone who walks on the earth.)
6 “I, the Lord, was right to call you.
I will hold your hand and protect you.
You will be the sign of my agreement with the people.
You will be a light for the other nations.
7 You will make the blind able to see.
You will free those who are held as captives.
You will lead those who live in darkness out of their prison.
8 “I am Yahweh.
That is my name.
I will not give my glory to another.
I will not let statues take the praise that should be mine.
9 In the past, I told you what would happen,
and it happened!
Clearly statues are idols. Context does matter all.
learner Daniel
Active Member
I had the impression you do not believe the teachings about the trinity is in the Bible. That outline clearly shows all the aspects for it are there.
learner Daniel
Active Member
odds are educated people back then did not read them. Because no books like today, just limited number of manuscripts available to them..
The dates of life for the Greek philosophers Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle are:
Socrates: (469–399 BCE)
Plato: (427–347 BCE)
Aristotle: (384–322 BCE)
Plato: Today there are around 250 known manuscripts of Plato's works. The oldest surviving manuscript, Clarke Plato, was written in 895 CE by John the Calligrapher.
Aristotle: Aristotle's manuscripts date from the 7th to the 17th century. Many of Aristotle's works are lost or only survive in fragments, and some may have been incorrectly attributed.
These Greek philosophers would not have been read or discussed by Jesus disciples.
learner Daniel
Active Member
EDUCATION IN AN ILLITERATE SOCIETY
Very little is known to us about education in ancient Israel. However, there are a few verses in the Torah that give us a little bit of insight about the subject. There is no Torah commandment to actually know how to read and write, and the only social groups that are commanded to have any written literature were the Levites and Priests (Deuteronomy 17:18). As it says:
וְהָיָה כְשִׁבְתּוֹ, עַל כִּסֵּא מַמְלַכְתּוֹ—וְכָתַב לוֹ אֶת–מִשְׁנֵה הַתּוֹרָה הַזֹּאת, עַל–סֵפֶר, מִלִּפְנֵי, הַכֹּהֲנִים הַלְוִיִּם
And it shall be, when he sits upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book, out of that which is before the priests the Levites.
It seems that most of the knowledge that people would have at this period (i.e. 1550-700BCE, Late Bronze Age to Iron Age) would have been mostly acquired through oral traditions, or from hearing in temples or any form of gathering, the written word as recited in ritual liturgy and epic.
An example of oral transmission can be found in the theoretical question,
www.hebrewinisrael.net
Very little is known to us about education in ancient Israel. However, there are a few verses in the Torah that give us a little bit of insight about the subject. There is no Torah commandment to actually know how to read and write, and the only social groups that are commanded to have any written literature were the Levites and Priests (Deuteronomy 17:18). As it says:
וְהָיָה כְשִׁבְתּוֹ, עַל כִּסֵּא מַמְלַכְתּוֹ—וְכָתַב לוֹ אֶת–מִשְׁנֵה הַתּוֹרָה הַזֹּאת, עַל–סֵפֶר, מִלִּפְנֵי, הַכֹּהֲנִים הַלְוִיִּם
And it shall be, when he sits upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book, out of that which is before the priests the Levites.
It seems that most of the knowledge that people would have at this period (i.e. 1550-700BCE, Late Bronze Age to Iron Age) would have been mostly acquired through oral traditions, or from hearing in temples or any form of gathering, the written word as recited in ritual liturgy and epic.
An example of oral transmission can be found in the theoretical question,
Hebrew In Israel | Education In Ancient Israel and Judaism - Learn Torah
Education (i.e, the passing of any form of information) is not limited only to the field of writing but also to the oral transmission of information. Hence, when one wants to understand education in biblical
www.hebrewinisrael.net
learner Daniel
Active Member
Development of Literacy in ANE
Evidence reveals that the Ancient Near East embraced majorly nomadic societies. Hence, they
had little use for writing.7 Writing materials were not readily available in the desert and had to be
imported from the settled regions coupled with the harsh weather condition that did not encourage the
keeping of materials that could be easily destroyed. Nomadic societies developed effective ways-of-life ...
learner Daniel
Active Member
The aspects are throughout the bible. Read the texts from this a little each day.
learner Daniel
Active Member
invest in a cross reference bible friend.
learner Daniel
Active Member
prove that priests knew that.
The Ancient Greek term θεία ουσία (theia ousia; divine essence) was translated in Latin as essentia or substantia, and hence in English as essence or substance.
where are those words used in the Bible? please educate me, thank daniel
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God is a Spirit who is invisible to us, and that is why we can't ever see God. We can only see God's Attributes reflected in Jesus.
God never takes on a body. Rather, the Attributes of God were seen in Jesus, so Jesus was an image of God's Attributes.
John 14
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father He was not referring to His physical body, He was referring to His Attributes.
Jesus said that because Jesus was a mirror image of the Attributes of God; e.g., Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient.
John 14
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The Father is in the Son because Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” meaning that the Attributes of God were visible and manifest in Jesus, which is why Jesus was a Manifestation of God.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
'God made man in his image' is not referring to anything physical. It means that humans have the potential to reflect the Attributes of God.
Some of God's Attributes are Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient. Jesus also had these Attributes. Humans also have the 'potential' to reflect these Attributes of God, and we reflect them to a greater of lesser degree, depending upon how spiritual we are.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
The verse above refers to Jesus, who was God manifest in the flesh. Jesus was justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up into glory.
John 1
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Jesus came to bear witness to the Light, and the Light was God, that through Jesus all men might believe in God.
Verse 10 "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not" refers to Jesus, not to God.
We know that since verses 11 and 12 refer to Jesus.
However, the middle part of verse 10 (and the world was made by him) is inaccurate, since the world was made by God, not by Jesus.
As you said, Genesis 1:1 lets us know God made the world.
Okay, I can go along with that. Jesus was the Spirit of God because the Spirit of God dwelt in the body of Jesus.
Paul was not a disciple .. and he did not know The Word - least not that he told us about.
Jesus was The Word .. but you seem to know naught what that means .. to see Jesus is to see the word of God -- to Hear Jesus .. is to hear the word of God ... "He who hates Me - hates the Father" He who Hates "THe Word" by definition hates the father .. as "The Word" is the Word of the Father.
Then put up an unrelated passage from Matt -- but once again .. "The Logos" is the conduit between man and God. Mistranslated as "The Word" in John 1 . you can not access "The Word of God" .. but through The Logos .. and the only acces you have to God .. is The Logos.
one needs to understand the difference between "The Logos" .. and "The Word" in order to make sense of the John / Matt .. and do keep in mind that God is the author of confusion in this story .. at least that is what the Logos has to say - so do not be upset that you were misunderstanding these passages as how could one having understanding without having the Key .. the Keys to the Kingdom !
Perhaps I can shed some light on this contentious issue --- "Essence" as used in the context of the Trinity ... more properly the word Substance .. or "one substance" "one substance with the father from whome all things are made" in the creed of Nicene .. The actual Greek term used in the trinity formulation is Homoousios == one substance. To the Greeks there were 2 kinds of substances .. 1) that which God was made of and 2) that which everything else is made of - so by saying Jesus was "Homoousios" with The Father = One Substance with the Father .. the creed is stating that Jesus is The Father .. then in another place the doctrine states yet not the Father .. a doctrine in holy contradiction.
While the term Homoosious predates Christianity .. that does not mean Jesus is described in this way in scripture . and certainly the early Church Fathers did not believe that Jesus was "The Father" .. they were all subordinantists ... believing Jesus and his divinity was subordinate to The Father.
John 1:1 describes the relationship between Jesus and God not as some trinity .. not as one substance but, as "The Logos" and unfortunately mistranslated in modern Bibles as "The Word" . And while Logos can mean Word ...and in deed there are both uses of the term in John 1 .. the whole passage a play on this the term Word .. in a Religious context "The Logos" is the emmisary between man and God .. the conduit between man and God .. man not able to access Gods word directly .. but through a conduit .
Thus .. Jesus is the physical embodiment of God's word .. and Jesus speaks "The Word - Gods Word" through the Holy Spirit. This conduit .. while pre-existent in John .. is not "The Father" - it is not God. yet it is God's word .. so it is God .. the only way humans have of accessing God .. is through "the word" ... the convenant of a God is based on the word of that God .. A God then is represented by the Word .. and Jesus is the symbolic representation of God's word .. this is my body .. this is my blood .. take Eat .. do this in rememberance.
In summary .. Jesus is not the Most High God .. Jesus was a human who was adopted by a God .. who after baptism had to go through ritual testing conducted by a Son of God - Chief God over the Earth and Tester of Souls... After passing the Ritual test .. Jesus divine spark is actualized and he goes on to do many wonders .. as Sons of God are normally capable of doing .. Jesus being the Son of Man ..as he is not the offspring of 2 Gods .. as the Tester .. and the other Bnei Elohim .. but the offspring of woman and God .. not unlike the Nefilium except the God of Jesus does not take the Mother of Jesus as his wife ..
This God later leaves Jesus "hang out to dry" .. pardon the pun.. does not save him from the sacrificial death .. and Jesus dies none to happy with his God. The Body of Jesus is then put into a tomb but 3 days later has dissappeared .. the women are freaked out by some dude in the Tomb .. run away and never tell anyone that the Body was gone.
Sorry but .. this is not the story about the Most High God coming to earth and pretending to be human. This is the story of the adoption of a human by a God .. giving the divine spark .. transformed into The Logos .. Able to speak God's word through the Holy Spirit .. and do many other wondrous things .. but "The Word" is what is important .. not the nature of the divinity of Jesus .. and silly attempts to turn Jesus literally into The Father .. rather than the symbolic and physical representation of "The Word" of our Father - who art in Heaven - hallowed be thy name.
So God resides in Heaven -- unlike Jesus who was a resident of the Earth at the time .. and this God has a Hallowed name (which I presume neither of you know) .. and that name is not Jesus . but names are how we keep track of the Gods and so without such name one has absolutely no idea which God is the God of Jesus.
Hint - Not Lord Jealous nor Lord YHWH - neither covenant (word) does Jesus a priest forever of the Order Melchi-Zedek follow
Let us not mistake a Priest of God Most High .. for God Most High El Elyon
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
The term Trinity was first used by the church father Tertullian in the third century AD. The doctrine of the Trinity was hammered out in 325 AD at the council of Nicea. Philosophy had played a part in the development of the Trinity.
Beware lest any man spoil (ruin) you through philosophy and vain deceit after the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. Colossians 2:8-10
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Please show me some scriptures where the apostles said it was attributes. Because man has some pretty horrible attributes. Please explain how Moses spoke face to face with God. Exodus 33:11
The middle part of the verse isn't inaccurate. You just think it is, because you don't realize that it was YHWH himself there in that body.
BTW, read what YHWH said they would do in the Old Testament. Isaiah 45:21-23
Now read in the NT where it says: For we shall all stand before the judgement seat of Messiah. For it is written (quoting Isaiah 45:23) As I live says YHWH, Every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. Romans14:11
That's why every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is YHWH. Philippians 2:11
John the baptist (the voice in the wilderness) was supposed to prepare the way for YHWH and Make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3 Now I ask you - Who did John prepare the way for and who showed up?
Say to the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Isaiah 40:9
If you can prove that was an alteration made by man that's one thing. But to discard it because it doesn't fit in with your beliefs is bad. Anyone that adds to, or takes away from God's word is going to be in trouble. You should mold your beliefs to the word, not mold the word to your beliefs.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is the Father. Proof is in Matthew 1:20 - she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
Essence is a man made doctrine never taught by the apostles.
As I said in a previous post, Logos means thought / idea / concept / plan /etc. So John 1:1 is saying, In the beginning was the plan, and the plan was with God, and the plan was God.
God's word contains his plan. He knew everything he would do from the very beginning. The plan was God, because the whole plan revolved around God. When the time was right, he brought the part of his plan where he would take on flesh, to fruition. Just like it was in God's plan for the lamb to be slain. In Revelation 13:8 it talks about the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Yet you know he wasn't actually slain until around 33 AD. But it was in the mind and plan of God before the foundation of the world.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Thanks for expanding on this.
LOL .. No .. While the Father is indeed a Holy Spirit of sorts .. the Holy Spirit is not "The Father" .. and The Father has a name btw a Hallowed name.
Now .. unfortunately for Matt 1:20 .. regardless of not providing proof .. in any way shape or form .. is not atually in the original version of the Story .. so sorry .. Let us not base foundation on interpolation ( there is no virgin birth in the original story) and do answer the question in relation to the author of confusion ..
Your commentary on the Logos is way off the mark .. ... Logos can mean Word .. Concept .. Plan. it depends on the context .. In a religious context the term means a conduit between man and God "The Logos" .. this is a very well understood concept in Platonic Philosophy .. one that the author of John used in an attempt to make Christianity appeal to the target audience who were Greek .. and thus all familiar with "The Logos" ... emissary between man and God .
Logos also means "Word" in context .. in the first line of John 1. .. so so you have different uses .. in one place meaning Emmissary between man and God .. in the next .. this Emissary .. is "The Word ofd God".
Jesus is a Priest of the Order Melchi-Zedek ... not of the Aaronite Priesthood .. not a levitical Priest .. Jesus is a Priest in the Order of the God El -- The Chief God in the Heavens .. Head of the Divine Council .. referred to as the "Congregation of EL" Psalm 82 .. and not the Lord YHWH ..nor Lord Jealous .. Jesus not abiding by either covenant .. which you should be happy about .. as nor does a follower of Jesus have to follow that covenant.
Revelation has nothing to do with this conversation ?! nothing to do with the fact that Jesus is not "The Father" who art in Heaven .. while Jesus is standing on the Earth because one is not the other .. this stated directly over 100 times by Jesus .. and in his last breath "My God .. My God .. why have you forsaken me" .. U understand ?
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why would the apostles say it was attributes? They did not explain the meaning of verses but rather left it to the reader to figure them out.
God is a Spirit who is invisible to us, and that is why we can't ever see God. We can only see God's Attributes reflected in Jesus.
God never takes on a body. Rather, the Attributes of God were seen in Jesus, so Jesus was an image of God's Attributes.
Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father He was not referring to His physical body, He was referring to His Attributes.
Jesus said that because Jesus was a mirror image of the Attributes of God; e.g., Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient.
The Father is in the Son because Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” meaning that the Attributes of God were visible and manifest in Jesus, which is why Jesus was a Manifestation of God.
The horrible attributes that man has are NOT a reflection of God's Attributes, they are a reflection of the lower sinful nature of man.
When man follows Jesus man has the potential to reflect the Attributes of Jesus, which are the Attributes of God.
The more spiritual we are the more we reflect God's Attributes.
'God made man in his image' is not referring to anything physical. It means that humans have the potential to reflect the Attributes of God.
Some of God's Attributes are Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient. Jesus also had these Attributes. Humans also have the 'potential' to reflect these Attributes of God, and we reflect them to a greater of lesser degree, depending upon how spiritual we are.
'God made man in his image' cannot be referring to anything physical since God is not physical being.
Look at the contradiction between verses 11 and 20. Moses continued to live after that so he could not have looked upon the face of God.
But that is really a moot point because God is not a human being so God has no face.
Exodus 33
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
The way that he OT anthropomorphizes God is really quite awful. The NT straightened that out.
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
YHWH does not have and never will have a body. God manifests Himself in a body, but that is not God in that body, it is a Manifestation of God.
God does not become flesh, God manifests Himself (His Attributes) in the flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory
Isaiah 45
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(quoting Isaiah 45:22-23)
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Those verses do not refer to the Messiah, they refer to God.
Romans 14
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Phil 2
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus was not and never will be God. The Lord is God and therefore the Lord cannot be Jesus.
is the Lord God?
AI Overview
Learn more…
Yes, in the Bible, the Lord is God:
Yahweh
The most important name for God in the Old Testament is YHWH, which is translated as "LORD" in all capital letters. It is the ancient Hebrew form of the verb "he will be" and appears over 6,500 times in the Old Testament.
Elohim
When combined with the Hebrew word for "God" (Elohim), "Lord God" characterizes the supremacy, majesty, and sovereignty of Israel's God.
Adonai
When Yahweh appeared in Scripture after the destruction of the Jerusalem temple in AD 70, the name was not pronounced and the reader used the name Adonai instead.
Jesus
Jesus is often called "The Lord (Jehovah) our Righteousness," "God," and "Son of God". The Bible ascribes the characteristics of deity to Jesus Christ.
Phil 2:9 God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
God did not exalt Jesus. Paul did that. Jesus was called the Lord, but Jesus was not the Lord.
Jesus is often called "The Lord (Jehovah) our Righteousness," "God," and "Son of God". The Bible ascribes the characteristics of deity to Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 40
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
10 Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
I do not believe that any of the verses above are about Jesus. I believe they are about the man who was the return of Christ, who was the glory of God, Baha'u'llah.
what does the name Baha'u'llah mean in english
AI Overview
Learn more…
The name Bahá'u'lláh, also spelled Bahaullah, is an Arabic phrase that translates to "Glory of God". It refers to Mīrzā Ḥosayn ʿAlī Nūrī, a Persian nobleman who founded the Bahá'í Faith in the mid-19th century.
This is not about adding to or taking away from the Bible. It is about interpreting the Bible and understanding what it means.
If every Christian agreed on the meanings of all the Bible verses there would be no division amongst Christians.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God. God is like the Sun and the Holy Spirit is the rays of the Sun.
Question.—What is the Holy Spirit?
Answer.—The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God and the luminous rays which emanate from the Manifestations; for the focus of the rays of the Sun of Reality was Christ, and from this glorious focus, which is the Reality of Christ, the Bounty of God reflected upon the other mirrors which were the reality of the Apostles. The descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles signifies that the glorious divine bounties reflected and appeared in their reality. Moreover, entrance and exit, descent and ascent, are characteristics of bodies and not of spirits—that is to say, sensible realities enter and come forth, but intellectual subtleties and mental realities, such as intelligence, love, knowledge, imagination and thought, do not enter, nor come forth, nor descend, but rather they have direct connection.
On a purely logical basis, since Jesus was the Son of God, Jesus cannot be God The Father, but of course there is nothing in the Bible that supports the belief that Jesus is God. That is nothing but a man-made dogma.
Sure but a ray from God is not God anymore than spit from a soldiers mouth onto a peasant is the soldier ... just as a ray from Sun is not the Sun.
In general -- this definition of the spirit is quite poor .. and far too limited. Then .. using this definition to describe Jesus does not work at all... so a false conclusion based on a poor assumption and poor analogy.
The question of substance but also agency much be addressed in any reasonable definition.. so let us look at the Spirit as an Aeon -- similar to an Angel .. a being with agency but one subservient to the Sending God.. the question is then if this spirt has any physical substance to it .. matter or energy .... our definition is going to claim not matter .. but an energy. ... so no physical matter .. which rules out Jesus as a "spirit"- Aeon.
In Scripture Jesus is depicted as a Man .. first and foremost .. in the original story. In the original story even the disciples do not believe Jesus is the Son of God .. never mind the Most High God . To the Disciples in Mark .. Jesus is a Man. The family of Jesus does not believe Jesus to be divine .. they believe him their Son who has gone off on a spiritual journy .. but one who no one takes seriously as a Guru of any kind in his home town.
John the Baptist believes Jesus to be a Man .. .. a man "Annointed by God" - in the way of David .. and King Cyrus .. both who were men "Messiahs" because that is what a Messiah is .. one annointed by God to do great things .. one adopted by God to do great things.
Jesus enters the story as a man of 30 ... who is adopted by God upon his Baptism .. as a man he is sent through ritual testing .. only after which the divine spark will be activated .. similar to the ritual trial the Pharoah would undergo .. a ritual which had some danger.
The Nature of the divinity of Jesus or if Jesus was divine at all .. was a hotly debated subject but .. no one was arguing this divinity was at the same level of the Most High .. that Jesus was "The Father" -- even those in the 2cnd century that argued that Jesus was an Aeon .. and did not actually have physical substance ..were not claiming Jesus was " El Elyon - God most high" .. God of Abraham. . as you go on to affirm .