The Trinity isnt Real, nor is it logical

[l neXus l]

okay everyone this gets me going, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE TRINITY!!!!.
If God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are they same person, then how is jesus the SON of God? why would God send himself to Earth to die for Humanity? He created the Earth, he Rules above it, why would he come down to Earth to be Hated? why in the bible does Jesus never take any credit for himself? if he was truly God he would take credit for his words and teachings, but not, in one scripture a woman calls jesus great and what does he say? No one is great but one, who is God, everything jesus did he said it was for his FATHER not himself. and if Jesus is the "Holy Ghost" then why would Jesus ask god for his own spirit to guide him? the Holy Ghost was present at Jesus's baptism in the form of a dove,
Jesus made it clear, in one of the most quoted scriptures from the bible where he said, “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) sorry Trinitarians, but if you read the bible you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[no-body]

No more ridiculous than any other bible teachings:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. -Matthew 28

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. -John 1

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. -Isiah 9

I'm guessing you're a JW? No disrespect to JW but it takes some chutzpah to say "there's only one way to read the bible" and come up with concepts like Satan which take as many leaps of logic to get to as the trinity.

 

[Tekern]

Nexus, you are right! Here are just a few scriptures that prove the "Trinity Doctrin" false like the religions that support this lie.
Acts:7:55,56. In Stephens vision he see's " Jesus standing at God's right hand." he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit. ( See also Rev:7:10, 22:1,3.)
Matt.:26:39. If the Father and the Son were not distinctindividuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless.
John 8:17,18. Jesus definitly spoke of himself as being an individual seperate and distinct from the Father.
These are but a few!!

 

[l neXus l]

actually im not a JW, i know some and think they are tactless and judgemental, but i just cant see the rationalization of the trinity, God is God, Jesus is Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, is Gods Spirit manifestied in us

 

[no-body]

actually im not a JW, i know some and think they are tactless and judgemental, but i just cant see the rationalization of the trinity, God is God, Jesus is Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, is Gods Spirit manifestied in us

Sorry for assuming. I don't believe in the trinity either, but I think it's unfair to try and "prove" something that has to have some sort of meaning behind it.

 

[l neXus l]

yeh i agree, but it just seems logical, god would be dumb if he sent himself to earth and died for us and went straight back up to heaven, just so we can debate on whether he is the son of god til the end of the world lol

 

[YmirGF]

yeh i agree, but it just seems logical, god would be dumb if he sent himself to earth and died for us and went straight back up to heaven, just so we can debate on whether he is the son of god til the end of the world lol

The pond of life looks deep, when seen by a toddler, from the shallow end.
Though I am not a Christian, the concept of the Trinity is far from being a silly idea.
It makes a great deal of sense if you actually think about it -- for more than a nanosecond.

 

[l neXus l]

its silly silly silly

 

[imaginaryme]

Yes? No? Maybe?

 

[Metempsychosis]

Yes? No? Maybe?

Probably both yes and no.Thanks for the pic that was very informative.

 

[jnm66]

okay everyone this gets me going, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE TRINITY!!!!.
If God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are they same person, then how is jesus the SON of God? why would God send himself to Earth to die for Humanity? He created the Earth, he Rules above it, why would he come down to Earth to be Hated? why in the bible does Jesus never take any credit for himself? if he was truly God he would take credit for his words and teachings, but not, in one scripture a woman calls jesus great and what does he say? No one is great but one, who is God, everything jesus did he said it was for his FATHER not himself. and if Jesus is the "Holy Ghost" then why would Jesus ask god for his own spirit to guide him? the Holy Ghost was present at Jesus's baptism in the form of a dove,
Jesus made it clear, in one of the most quoted scriptures from the bible where he said, “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) sorry Trinitarians, but if you read the bible you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you look in genesis you will see... 1:26 Isaiah 6:8 (Elohim) also is used..this is plural used for more than2 among other verses

 

[Ba'al]

If you look in genesis you will see... 1:26 Isaiah 6:8 (Elohim) also is used..this is plural used for more than2 among other verses

There is another reason why Elohim could be used. God may not work alone. Meaning there are angels and who knows what else doing his good deeds. But I agree, the early Christian church taught alot of rubbish and although some modern day Christians are rethinking the trinity doctrine, it's obviously very hard to back track. If humans nowadays were to read the bible for the first time they certainly wouldn't come up with the trinity. I doubt anyone would believe much in the bible period.

 

[Katzpur]

okay everyone this gets me going, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE TRINITY!!!!.
If God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are they same person, then how is jesus the SON of God? why would God send himself to Earth to die for Humanity? He created the Earth, he Rules above it, why would he come down to Earth to be Hated? why in the bible does Jesus never take any credit for himself? if he was truly God he would take credit for his words and teachings, but not, in one scripture a woman calls jesus great and what does he say? No one is great but one, who is God, everything jesus did he said it was for his FATHER not himself. and if Jesus is the "Holy Ghost" then why would Jesus ask god for his own spirit to guide him? the Holy Ghost was present at Jesus's baptism in the form of a dove,
Jesus made it clear, in one of the most quoted scriptures from the bible where he said, “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) sorry Trinitarians, but if you read the bible you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you that the Trinity is a false doctrine, but I do believe that in at least one sense Jesus was God. I absolutely do not believe that He was/is the same person or being as God the Father, and as you well know, the Bible makes it absolutely clear that (1) He was sent here by His Father, (2) He did His Father's will in all things, (3) He taught only that which His Father instructed Him to teach, (4) He frequently prayed to His Father, (5) He acknowledged His Father as His God and (6) He sits today in Heaven on the right hand of His Father. On the other hand, His Father gave Him all that He had -- which would include the right to be worshipped and honored to the same degree His Father is to be worshipped and honored. It would also include the right to be known as "God." Further, there is at least once when God the Father addresses His Son as "God." I can't recall the verse off the top of my head, but it begins, "Thy throne, Oh God..."

Lastly, the dictionary describes "God and "Godhead" as synonyms. Consequently, depending upon the context, they can be used interchangeably. Thus, it is correct to say "There is only one Godhead" instead of "There is only one God." "Godhead" is always a collective noun, whereas "God" can be, but does not need to be, a collective noun. Bottom line: Jesus is "God" but He is not "God the Father." He is divine and He is perfect, but He holds a position within the Godhead that is subservient to His Father.

 

[no-body]

its silly silly silly

No more silly than the notion of God selecting a Jewish peasant/carpenter to save humanity from it's sins.

Not to insult anyone but this is kind of like saying you think believing in fairies is totally logical but not pixies, no way that's make believe.

 

[Ba'al]

I agree with you that the Trinity is a false doctrine, but I do believe that in at least one sense Jesus was God. I absolutely do not believe that He was/is the same person or being as God the Father, and as you well know, the Bible makes it absolutely clear that (1) He was sent here by His Father, (2) He did His Father's will in all things, (3) He taught only that which His Father instructed Him to teach, (4) He frequently prayed to His Father, (5) He acknowledged His Father as His God and (6) He sits today in Heaven on the right hand of His Father.

Katzpur, would you consider the possibility of Jesus being an angel temporarily taking human form to do what God commanded of Him? Or a prophet?

 

[jnm66]

Katzpur, would you consider the possibility of Jesus being an angel temporarily taking human form to do what God commanded of Him? Or a prophet?

that would all be credible if (Jehova Witness-follow that thought) after the baptism of Jesus by John-to which the heavans(God)was heard to say of him his son which he was well pleased...(paraphrased)

 

[jnm66]

There is another reason why Elohim could be used. God may not work alone. Meaning there are angels and who knows what else doing his good deeds. But I agree, the early Christian church taught alot of rubbish and although some modern day Christians are rethinking the trinity doctrine, it's obviously very hard to back track. If humans nowadays were to read the bible for the first time they certainly wouldn't come up with the trinity. I doubt anyone would believe much in the bible period.

And actually you seem to have it reversed....the early first century church probably taught closer to the word....why because of the time frame....as the years and millenia went by,many church"dogma" began to be taught...and yes you are correct as to why Elohim could have been used-but you have other scriptures pointing to the plurality....

 

[Ba'al]

I agree the 1st century did teach a more accurate portrayal of Jesus. When I said early church I was referring to the following thousand years.

 

[Katzpur]

Katzpur, would you consider the possibility of Jesus being an angel temporarily taking human form to do what God commanded of Him? Or a prophet?

I don't see Jesus as an angel. Hebrews 1:1-6 seems to pretty clearly be making a distinction between Jesus and the angels. It says:

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

I suppose that in a sense, He was a prophet, because He did prophesy. I believe that He was a great deal more than any prophet before or after Him, though. The scriptures (at least the New Testament) does speak of Him as the Only Begotten Son of God. If you were to go by the Old Testament only, I suppose you could get around that fact, but since I also believe in the New Testament, I can't dismiss the many references to Him as unique among all men who have ever walked the earth.

 

[Katzpur]

If humans nowadays were to read the bible for the first time they certainly wouldn't come up with the trinity.

That's for sure. Unfortunately, most people reading the Bible for the first time do so with a pre-conceived set of beliefs. They try to force the Bible to be in agreement with those beliefs rather than the other way around.