Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
There are many scriptures that show us there are three and that the three are One and the same.
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The Trinity
- Thread starter Atruthseeker
- Start date
There are many scriptures that show us there are three and that the three are One and the same.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
found it
1 John 5:7
"For there are three witness bearers:"
rest is spurious.
1 John 5:7, 8:
KJ reads: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” (Dy also includes this Trinitarian passage.) However, NW does not include the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” (RS,NE,TEV,JB,NAB also leave out the Trinitarian passage.)
Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—APlainIntroductiontotheCriticismoftheNewTestament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.
1 John 5:7
"For there are three witness bearers:"
rest is spurious.
1 John 5:7, 8:
KJ reads: “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” (Dy also includes this Trinitarian passage.) However, NW does not include the words “in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth.” (RS,NE,TEV,JB,NAB also leave out the Trinitarian passage.)
Regarding this Trinitarian passage, textual critic F. H. A. Scrivener wrote: “We need not hesitate to declare our conviction that the disputed words were not written by St. John: that they were originally brought into Latin copies in Africa from the margin, where they had been placed as a pious and orthodox gloss on ver. 8: that from the Latin they crept into two or three late Greek codices, and thence into the printed Greek text, a place to which they had no rightful claim.”—APlainIntroductiontotheCriticismoftheNewTestament (Cambridge, 1883, third ed.), p. 654.
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
I do like pendulums, they are quite steady. I have seen your answers to the numerous biblical quotations suggesting that Jesus is a separate being from God the Father, and I have witnessed you dancing around many of those, using phrases like "Some things are just not understood until Jesus reveals himself". I get that. But then I have also seen you show verses, just as I have seen verses which do seem to indirectly suggest that Jesus is God, or some Trinitarian form of God. And I'm personally okay with both views. I do not believe that either perception is salvific. But I do find it highly entertaining to watch and engage in these discussions.
Sonofason
Well-Known Member
Regarding 1 John 5:7-8 according to the NLT:
"And Jesus Christ was revealed as God’s Son by his baptism in water and by shedding his blood on the crossb—not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit, who is truth, confirms it with his testimony. So we have these three witnessesc— the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree.
There is no mention of the three being One.
c5:7 A few very late manuscripts add in heaven—the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And we have three witnesses on earth.
So the words you see in the KJV were added later than the original manuscripts apparently. I wonder why.
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Jesus is not separate from the Father. You thinking I dance around is nonsense. How can Jesus be separate from God ever? How can Jesus be separate from God when the Bible says Jesus is God? How can Jesus be separate from God when Jesus says when you see him you have seen the Father? Jesus only says what the Father says. Jesus only does what the Father does. Does that sound like I am dancing around?
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Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
One means the same.
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Read this:
1 Samuel 2:. 2"There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, there is no one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.
Now, since there is NO ROCK LIKE OUR GOD---whom do you say Jesus is? Do you say he is the ROCK AND GOD, or like GOD THE ROCK?
If you say like God the Rock, then YOU JUST WENT AGAINST THE WORD OF GOD.
Jesus is the rock
Romans 9:33 As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
1 Peter 2:8 and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
So which is it? What are you going to say? Are you going to say Jesus is a rock like God, thus go against the scripture that says there is no rock like God; or, are you going to say Jesus is God come in the flesh and is God the Rock?
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
There is no one holy like Jehovah,
There is no one like you,
And there is no rock like our God.
- 2 Samuel 2:2
"as it is written: 'Look! I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, but the one who rests his faith on it will not be disappointed.'" - Romans 9:33
Seems plausible. But lets look at the passages Paul was referencing.
The stone that the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone. (Lit,. "the head of the corner.")
This has come from Jehovah;
It is wonderful in our eyes.
- Psalm 118:22,23
"Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
'Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a tested stone,
The precious cornerstone of a sure foundation.
No one exercising faith will panic.
- Isaiah 28:16
Um, still reads as though Jesus was provided for by Jehovah to be a rock used both as a foundational cornerstone and a cause for stumbling depending on who accepts him and who doesn't.
It does not say God would provide himself.
*** it-2 p. 815 Rock ***
In a figurative sense “rock” describes the qualities of Jehovah as the Father of Israel (De 32:18), as a stronghold (2Sa 22:32, 33; Isa 17:10), as the secure height and refuge of his people (Ps 62:7; 94:22), and as their salvation (De 32:15; Ps 95:1). Some have looked to false gods as their “rock.” (De 32:37) There are other examples in which “rock” symbolizes in a general way a place of safety, protection, security, and refuge. (Isa 2:10, 19, 21) In Isaiah 8:14 Christ Jesus is alluded to as “a rock” over which “both the houses of Israel” stumbled.—Compare Mt 21:42-44.
There is no one like you,
And there is no rock like our God.
- 2 Samuel 2:2
"as it is written: 'Look! I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, but the one who rests his faith on it will not be disappointed.'" - Romans 9:33
Seems plausible. But lets look at the passages Paul was referencing.
The stone that the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone. (Lit,. "the head of the corner.")
This has come from Jehovah;
It is wonderful in our eyes.
- Psalm 118:22,23
"Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
'Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a tested stone,
The precious cornerstone of a sure foundation.
No one exercising faith will panic.
- Isaiah 28:16
Um, still reads as though Jesus was provided for by Jehovah to be a rock used both as a foundational cornerstone and a cause for stumbling depending on who accepts him and who doesn't.
It does not say God would provide himself.
*** it-2 p. 815 Rock ***
In a figurative sense “rock” describes the qualities of Jehovah as the Father of Israel (De 32:18), as a stronghold (2Sa 22:32, 33; Isa 17:10), as the secure height and refuge of his people (Ps 62:7; 94:22), and as their salvation (De 32:15; Ps 95:1). Some have looked to false gods as their “rock.” (De 32:37) There are other examples in which “rock” symbolizes in a general way a place of safety, protection, security, and refuge. (Isa 2:10, 19, 21) In Isaiah 8:14 Christ Jesus is alluded to as “a rock” over which “both the houses of Israel” stumbled.—Compare Mt 21:42-44.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
There is something that your missing. Because you believe in the trinity, you see differently than the bible. God is our rock and ultimately our saviour. Now, with His son, all things were given unto him. Now it is through Jesus that we are saved. Now...... Jesus is our saviour and our rock. You miss so much.....
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Don't you listen? I have told you I do not believe in the trinity doctrine. If you are going to debate me, at least remember what I said I believe, for I have said it enough for you. There are three. The three are One. One means the same. You read the scripture that says there is no one like God the Rock. So then, is Jesus like God the Rock? You speak against the scriptures
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
So then, you are saying Jesus is not like God! Even though Jesus says when you see him you have seen the Father! Even though Jesus says he only says what the Father says! Even though Jesus says he only does what the Father does! Yet YOU say he is not like God. Jesus is not only like God, he is God.
Jesus was not saying he was not good. Jesus is God and was showing that by what he said.
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
That is correct. Jesus is the image of God. That does not mean he shines with the same brightness.
Only God is Almighty. But Jesus is given the title Mighty God. Both are Saviors. One is provided by the other.
We can say that Jesus reflected Jehovah's personality perfectly. Everything he did, we know that Jehovah would have done in the same set of circumstances.
But then we remember that as the firstborn of all creation, Jesus has had countless billions of years to get to know his father and to come to be like him.
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Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
Study it harder, with the measure you use it will be measured to you, and more.Three are one....but it's not a trinity....it's your special version of the trinity.....which we can't call the trinity because you don't believe in it....we get it.
Yes
Oh how I love the Word of God!
You do not care that you go against the scriptures. Since you do not care, what then is the point in discussing it with you?
The scripture says there is no one like God, yet you keep saying Jesus is like God.