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"The Trump Slump" -- Grab Your Jobs and Hang on! (If You Can)

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Fanatical partisans will no doubt howl at the suggestion that Donald Trump has become the first president in more than fifty years to create an economic slump or downturn more or less by himself. But then fanatical partisans (on any side of any issue) are almost just as often wrong about everything as I am. As it happens, Trump is achieving what few presidents ever achieve -- he is becoming the primary and almost sole reason for a souring economy.

Time and again I have seen the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman condemned as "incompetent" by people who barely grasp the distinction between supply and demand, let alone who are experts in economics. Seems the Dunning-Kruger effect is really strong with Krugman's critics, especially those of his critics who never much read his writings.

All the same, Krugman gained my respect by accurately predicting in 2008 that the economic stimulus package passed by Congress was so small and poorly structured, the "recovery" would not be a boom, but would instead be ten years of sluggish growth during which quality jobs would continually evaporate to be replaced by lousy jobs, etc. etc. etc. In fact, Krugman nailed it right down to the details. What he said would come about is exactly what happened. Krugman can be wrong at times -- but he is usually right.

EDIT: A 2011 university study found Krugman to be the most accurate famous person out of 26 famous people who were making political and economic forecasts and predictions in the media at the time. Krugman got 14 out of 15 publicly made predictions right.

Read Krugman's take on the Trump Slump here.

[Some excerpts from the Article]

When he isn’t raving about how the deep state is conspiring against him, Donald Trump loves to boast about the economy, claiming to have achieved unprecedented things. As it happens, none of his claims are true. While both G.D.P. and employment have registered solid growth, the Trump economy simply seems to have continued a long expansion that began under Barack Obama. In fact, someone who looked only at the past 10 years of data would never guess that an election had taken place.​

But now it’s starting to look as if Trump really will achieve something unique: He may well be the first president of modern times to preside over a slump that can be directly attributed to his own policies, rather than bad luck.​

There has always been a deep unfairness about the relationship between economics and politics: Presidents get both credit and blame for events that usually have little to do with their actions. Jimmy Carter didn’t cause the stagflation that put Ronald Reagan in the White House; George H.W. Bush didn’t cause the economic weakness that elected Bill Clinton; even George W. Bush bears at most tangential responsibility for the 2008 financial crisis.​

[>snip<]

Now the U.S. economy is going through another partial slump. Once again, manufacturing is contracting. Agriculture is also taking a severe hit, as is shipping. Overall output and employment are still growing, but around a fifth of the economy is effectively in recession.​

But unlike previous presidents, who were just unlucky to preside over slumps, Trump has done this to himself, largely by choosing to wage a trade war he insisted would be “good, and easy to win.”​

[The above excerpts reflect the thesis of the article]
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
There's a some comments I'd make. One is that the economy has never gone in a straight line. It's inevitable that we'll have a downturn no matter what.

The second is that trade wars raise prices and thus depress sales - Economics 101. Depressed sales slow the economy. This can correctly be put on Trump's desk. Given some other indicators such as slowing manufacturing, at least some downturns in housing prices/sales etc, it's a good bet that we'll be in a recession soon.

Third is that Krugman's record has been challenged. Anyone who claims to be able to accurately predict the economy every time is wrong. Some guesses are better than others. Fact Checking Paul Krugman's Claim To Be "Right About Everything" | Andrew Syrios for example as a counter to his claims. I'm not saying he's wrong here, but that I would not bet the farm on his being right.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
If we get a slump now in the economy, we should of course blame Obama, Clinton, and Biden. Trump can only do good and great things. Right? o_O
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Im sure we'll soon hear the recovery was all Trump, but the slump was something Obama and/or Hillary did.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
All the same, Krugman gained my respect by accurately predicting in 2008 that the economic stimulus package passed by Congress was so small and poorly structured......
Paul Krugman agreed with me (about the poor structure)?
That's even stranger than @sun rise agreeing with me lately.

Btw, the paywall prohibits my reading the article.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Anyone who claims to be able to accurately predict the economy every time is wrong.
Some guesses are better than others. Fact Checking Paul Krugman's Claim To Be "Right About Everything" | Andrew Syrios for example as a counter to his claims. I'm not saying he's wrong here, but that I would not bet the farm on his being right.

I think it would be incredibly naive of you to rely on a fanatically partisan website to offer you accurate and honest information about Paul Krugman. In fact, I am rather shocked that you seem to be doing just that. Well, good luck. You'll need it.

P.S. If Krugman actually did say in earnest that he was "right about everything" then why, sir, have I heard him say that he makes mistakes now and then? Could it be that website lies?

You really, really might want to check out the Krugman article from which the website you cited cherry picked its quote of Krugman, then twisted it to make it look like Krugman was claiming to always be right. You can find the Krugman article here: Knaves, Fools, and Me (Meta)
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Fanatical partisans will no doubt howl at the suggestion that Donald Trump has become the first president in more than fifty years to create an economic slump or downturn more or less by himself. But then fanatical partisans (on any side of any issue) are almost just as often wrong about everything as I am. As it happens, Trump is achieving what few presidents ever achieve -- he is becoming the primary and almost sole reason for a souring economy.

Time and again I have seen the Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman condemned as "incompetent" by people who barely grasp the distinction between supply and demand, let alone who are experts in economics. Seems the Dunning-Kruger effect is really strong with Krugman's critics, especially those of his critics who never much read his writings.

All the same, Krugman gained my respect by accurately predicting in 2008 that the economic stimulus package passed by Congress was so small and poorly structured, the "recovery" would not be a boom, but would instead be ten years of sluggish growth during which quality jobs would continually evaporate to be replaced by lousy jobs, etc. etc. etc. In fact, Krugman nailed it right down to the details. What he said would come about is exactly what happened. Krugman can be wrong at times -- but he is usually right.

Read Krugman's take on the Trump Slump here.

[Some excerpts from the Article]

When he isn’t raving about how the deep state is conspiring against him, Donald Trump loves to boast about the economy, claiming to have achieved unprecedented things. As it happens, none of his claims are true. While both G.D.P. and employment have registered solid growth, the Trump economy simply seems to have continued a long expansion that began under Barack Obama. In fact, someone who looked only at the past 10 years of data would never guess that an election had taken place.​

But now it’s starting to look as if Trump really will achieve something unique: He may well be the first president of modern times to preside over a slump that can be directly attributed to his own policies, rather than bad luck.​

There has always been a deep unfairness about the relationship between economics and politics: Presidents get both credit and blame for events that usually have little to do with their actions. Jimmy Carter didn’t cause the stagflation that put Ronald Reagan in the White House; George H.W. Bush didn’t cause the economic weakness that elected Bill Clinton; even George W. Bush bears at most tangential responsibility for the 2008 financial crisis.​

[>snip<]

Now the U.S. economy is going through another partial slump. Once again, manufacturing is contracting. Agriculture is also taking a severe hit, as is shipping. Overall output and employment are still growing, but around a fifth of the economy is effectively in recession.​

But unlike previous presidents, who were just unlucky to preside over slumps, Trump has done this to himself, largely by choosing to wage a trade war he insisted would be “good, and easy to win.”​

[The above excerpts reflect the thesis of the article]

The economy has slowed because the Federal Reserve had raised interest rates too aggressively, which has undermined our President's tough trade stance on the Chinese unfair trade practitioners.


business-49452366



business-49415776
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The economy has slowed because the Federal Reserve has raised interest rates too aggressively, which has undermined our President's tough trade stance on the Chinese unfair trade practitioners.

Did you know that Krugman points out in his article Trump is lying when he says what you just now repeated?
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
I wanted to call the New Yorker a CNN stooge, turns out all people say is "modern Liberal". Krugman, Krugman, Krugman. Well wait, you say he actually joined reality for 2009 predictions successfully? I mean that whole economic thing, Roh Moo-hyun - Wikipedia killed himself, probably from this CDOs crisis you guys why not, Obama state-controlling Detroit Michigan's GM, the GM Comrade line is Really nice. Check out my Comrade Lenin, its square boxy and red. Jobs are all down, China Olympics. So Krugman called 2009?

Hey Lee Myung Bak's scandal of getting money? Anybody know about this new one? Lee Myung-bak - Wikipedia He's in jail, from what I heard, he takes money from people. I don't see any real in-depth explanations on this one.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
There's a some comments I'd make. One is that the economy has never gone in a straight line. It's inevitable that we'll have a downturn no matter what.

The second is that trade wars raise prices and thus depress sales - Economics 101. Depressed sales slow the economy. This can correctly be put on Trump's desk. Given some other indicators such as slowing manufacturing, at least some downturns in housing prices/sales etc, it's a good bet that we'll be in a recession soon.

Third is that Krugman's record has been challenged. Anyone who claims to be able to accurately predict the economy every time is wrong. Some guesses are better than others. Fact Checking Paul Krugman's Claim To Be "Right About Everything" | Andrew Syrios for example as a counter to his claims. I'm not saying he's wrong here, but that I would not bet the farm on his being right.

Just so you see this, I have edited and updated the OP:

EDIT: A 2011 university study found Krugman to be the most accurate famous person out of 26 famous people who were making political and economic forecasts and predictions in the media at the time. Krugman got 14 out of 15 publicly made predictions right.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
And yet the unemployment rate is the lowest it’s been in 50 years.

Also, the official poverty rate in 2018 was 11.8 percent, down 0.5 percentage points from 12.3 percent in 2017.....The Trump economy now has fewer Americans living in poverty than the number of impoverished Americans at anytime when Obama was President.
 
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Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Who is going to ultimately pay for the $1 Trillion increase in the deficit over the first year of Trump's tax cut becoming law?

The answer: look at your children and grandchildren if any.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Who is going to ultimately pay for the $1 Trillion increase in the deficit over the first year of Trump's tax cut becoming law?

The answer: look at your children and grandchildren if any.
Well, that's Obama's fault again. He made Trump do it.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Who is going to ultimately pay for the $1 Trillion increase in the deficit over the first year of Trump's tax cut becoming law?

The answer: look at your children and grandchildren if any.

A trillion dollar annual federal budget deficit this year in the Trumped up sized economy with 20 trillion dollars of GDP is an economic improvement over the multiple trillion dollar annual federal budget deficits that happened in the weaker sized Obama economy.
 
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