"The Truth About PhD Creationists"

[Skwim]

Well, they need to, don't they? And usually the nonsense is proportional to the number of titles.

It is a way of saying: don't feel silly if you believe in Noah and marsupials going to the Middle East and back, for me, Prof. Dr. etc... believes that, too.

Ciao

- viole

Their argument from authority no less.


.

 

[Reggie Miller]

People have literally been saying that since the Church was established, but it has never happened. How can you even pretend to know these acts are prophecies being fulfilled, when Jesus himself said that only the Father knows when these events will happen, and that it shall come, unexpected, "like a thief in the night?"
And, do be aware, anarchy has not been spreading, nor has it increased, and I just am not seeing this hostility towards Christianity. After all, the majority of Americans are Christian. Conservative Christianity is being pushed back, but that is because no one should ever be forced to adhere to religious dogma they do not believe in themselves. This is a "free" society, not a Christian-dictated society.

I made a simple statement. Why did you go on this rant?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Maybe that is one reason
America has fallen from first place to a about 14th in education systems around the world. That is a shame.

I'm staying out of the main argument of this thread. But my professional background is education, and this statement is profoundly ignorant.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I made a simple statement. Why did you go on this rant?

Because there is no reason to believe Revelation prophecy is coming true. Also because Christianity is not under attack. Sure, there are some people who do get nasty towards Christians, but there is no widespread or systematic discrimination towards it. Why the rant? Because the statements claimed by you and Omega are false and not based in reality.

 

[Sapiens]

Genetic changes are limited to the characteristics of the genes in the gene pool of the parents. the dominant gene for eye color will determine the color of the eyes of the offspring, ... Generics will not allow it.

I proved this statement of your's wrong. Despite the dominant eye color of brown there came to pass a blue-eyed adulthttp://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/mayr_punctuated.html.

Even many evolutionist have recognized the fossil record does not support evolution.

I'd say that the number of such individuals approaches zero as a limit.

Here is a statement from Ernst Mayr, a one time professor of biology at Harvard.

Actually he was a Professor of Zoology.

"Wherever we look at the living biota...discontinuities are overwhelmingly frequent...the discontinuities are even more striking in the fossil record. New species usually appear in the fossil record suddenly, not connected with their ancestors by a series of intermediates."

Mayr wrote that in 2001 as part of a discussion of the concept of "Punctuated Equilibrium." Mayr was not, in the full context, "recognizing the fossil record does not support evolution," au contrare, he was advocating Punctuated Equilibrium, a view also held dear by Gould.

Do you know what "quote mining" is? It is a form of misquoting and lying, it is the fallacious tactic of taking quotes out of context in order to make them seemingly agree with the quote miner's viewpoint or to make the comments of an opponent seem more extreme or hold positions they don't in order to make their positions easier to refute or demonize. It's a way of lying. This tactic is widely used among YECs and their fellow travelers in an attempt to discredit evolution. Quote mining is an informal fallacy and a fallacy of ambiguity, in that it removes context that is necessary to understand the mined quote.

Quote mining is what you are doing with respect to the Mayr quotation.

If evolution was true, the great majority of fossils would be intermediates, but after 100+ years you have none.

]What you did was no different than quote mining,

Ah, caught you in another lie.

and the only ones who object to others using quotes from experts, are wow who cant refute the quote.

As an expert, and one who has conversed on the subject with both Mayr and Gould, j'accuse!

Also if you think tracing a mutation that changed eye color is evidence of evolution, you are in sad need of a basic source in genetics.

I never said that, "tracing a mutation that changed eye color is evidence of evolution," but seeing the speed with which the gene spread through the population, recognizing that it has an affect on sexual attractiveness and understanding the selective power of neotonic characteristics, that might be a pretty good hypothesis.

You said, "Genetic changes are limited to the characteristics of the genes in the gene pool of the parents." and I pointed out the error of your ways.

If you don't have the intellect to discuss a subject in a civil manner, you can go peddle your papers to soemone who cares what you think.

and if you can't stop stooping to lies to try to sell yours ...

I have done no such thing, that is what you have done.

So ... now you descent to "You did, I did not, you did, I did not." Rather childish I think.

I only present basic, proven, scientific facts that even a cave man can understand.

No, you don't seem able to even do that.

Evidently you don't understand intermediates either.

I understand them well, have you digested the list I provided?

Also not true. The basic tenant of evolution is that all life originated from a common source. and evolved into what we see. Now look up; the definition of evolved and you will see that your statement is not correct.

Word Root of evolve. The Latin word volvere, meaning “to roll” or “to turn around,” gives us the root volv. Words from the Latin volvere have something to do with turning. To revolve is to turn in circles or travel on a circular path. To evolve, or grow or develop out of something else, is to unroll from a source.

My statement was correct.

Every individual, animal and plant is not on its way; it is already there to reinforce "after it kind."

A specious and unsupported claim.

A species and a kind are the same thing. it is a group that can mate and produce offspring . And since you don't understand basic genetics, let me explain something real science has PROVED---If the parents don't have the gene for a characteristic, they will NEVER have a kid with a characteristic not in their gene pool. The nose of pakicetus will NEVER become a blowhole. Proven genetics will not allow it.

Please discourse a bit on "Ring Species."

Don't tell me what to do. You don't have that authority.

I lack the authority, but I have the advantage, the upper hand and the knowledge ... the things which you lack.

For years the fossil record was one of the backbones of evolution theory. When they finally figured out it did not support evolution, the found a new way to give the faithful hope---all fossils are transitional. You have drunk the evo kool-aid and it tasted good. I dont have to refute it, by definition it refutes itself.

Actaully what you are seeing is a major shift, among the cognoscenti concerning the Biological Species Concept. That is why you need to spend some time on ring species. I strongly recommend the body of work produced by my old professor, Robert Stebbins.

 

[omega2xx]

I'm staying out of the main argument of this thread. But my professional background is education, and this statement is profoundly ignorant.

https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/category/education/
https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/category/education/
That article not only keeps America out of the top 10 in education, it puts us number2 in the ignorant ratings.

Teachers unions and the Government and the PC crowd has ruined what was once the greatest education system in the world. When colleges allow students the day off and don't hat to take exams so the poor little children can mourn over the election of Trump, they are no longer teachers, they have become enablers to teach that only what you believe is important and if you don' get your way, lay on he ground and have a temper tantrum .

That is pathetic, and you being an educator should know it.

When they get out into the real word wit a job and a boss, they are going to have rude awaking, and real educators should be preparing them for the real world.

If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you have a boss. He doesn't have tenure--Bill Gates---Lessons Bill Gates never learned in school

 

[omega2xx]

"Evolutionist" is not a real word. People are not "germists" or "gravitationists." Thus people are not "evolutionists."

ev·o·lu·tion·ist
ˌevəˈlo͞oSHənəst/
noun
plural noun: evolutionists

1. a person who believes in the theories of evolution and natural selection.

Do you even know what Harris' credentials are? And he didn't criticize any specific creationist, and he didn't even specify creationist. It was everyone who holds a PhD in science and begins with an assumption and manipulates data to suit their religious needs, rather than gathering data and drawing a conclusion from it, which is what science is and scientists do. It's basically why fields like cryptozoology are not considered science.

I looked him up and I am not sure his PhD is in real science. One doesn't need a PhD in reading between the lines to know who he was referring to. There are creationist, biologists far more qualified than he is.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/category/education/
That article not only keeps America out of the top 10 in education, it puts us number2 in the ignorant ratings.

You mistake my meaning. I have no issue with an assessment of the US education system being ranked outside the top 10. I'm Australian, and we make some of the same mistakes here.

My issue was in you linking religion to this, as if it would help. Have you studied some of the other countries listed in terms of what they do differently? Finland, in particular, is a fascinating case study.

Teachers unions and the Government and the PC crowd has ruined what was once the greatest education system in the world.

I'd include parents and the opposition, as well. Out of interest, when do you think the US had the greatest education system in the world, and why?

When colleges allow students the day off and don't hat to take exams so the poor little children can mourn over the election of Trump, they are no longer teachers, they have become enablers to teach that only what you believe is important and if you don' get your way, lay on he ground and have a temper tantrum .

That is pathetic, and you being an educator should know it.

I do...but I've always been a little old school.

When they get out into the real word wit a job and a boss, they are going to have rude awaking, and real educators should be preparing them for the real world.

Many of those educators have never been in the non-academic world.

If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you have a boss. He doesn't have tenure--Bill Gates---Lessons Bill Gates never learned in school

True. I'm an ex-educator, and havecrun my own business as well as working in a fairly high pressure corporate job. When I was teaching I worked overseas in the private sector, for a logging company (trying to attract Western managers to remote locations by providing qualified teaching) as well as in the public sector in Australia. Even did a little university lecturing.

The more varied my life experience the more frustrated I grow with the education system. But I completely reject any assertiin that an increased presence of religion is what's required, and absolutely can't see what would lead anyone to that conclusion.

 

[omega2xx]

I proved this statement of your's wrong. Despite the dominant eye color of brown there came to pass a blue-eyed adulthttp://www.stephenjaygould.org/library/mayr_punctuated.html.
I'd say that the number of such individuals approaches zero as a limit.
Actually he was a Professor of Zoology.

Mayr wrote that in 2001 as part of a discussion of the concept of "Punctuated Equilibrium." Mayr was not, in the full context, "recognizing the fossil record does not support evolution," au contrare, he was advocating Punctuated Equilibrium, a view also held dear by Gould.

Do you know what "quote mining" is? It is a form of misquoting and lying, it is the fallacious tactic of taking quotes out of context in order to make them seemingly agree with the quote miner's viewpoint or to make the comments of an opponent seem more extreme or hold positions they don't in order to make their positions easier to refute or demonize. It's a way of lying. This tactic is widely used among YECs and their fellow travelers in an attempt to discredit evolution. Quote mining is an informal fallacy and a fallacy of ambiguity, in that it removes context that is necessary to understand the mined quote.

Quote mining is what you are doing with respect to the Mayr quotation.
Ah, caught you in another lie.
As an expert, and one who has conversed on the subject with both Mayr and Gould, j'accuse!
I never said that, "tracing a mutation that changed eye color is evidence of evolution," but seeing the speed with which the gene spread through the population, recognizing that it has an affect on sexual attractiveness and understanding the selective power of neotonic characteristics, that might be a pretty good hypothesis.

You said, "Genetic changes are limited to the characteristics of the genes in the gene pool of the parents." and I pointed out the error of your ways.
and if you can't stop stooping to lies to try to sell yours ...
So ... now you descent to "You did, I did not, you did, I did not." Rather childish I think.
No, you don't seem able to even do that.
I understand them well, have you digested the list I provided?


Word Root of evolve. The Latin word volvere, meaning “to roll” or “to turn around,” gives us the root volv. Words from the Latin volvere have something to do with turning. To revolve is to turn in circles or travel on a circular path. To evolve, or grow or develop out of something else, is to unroll from a source.

My statement was correct.
A specious and unsupported claim.
Please discourse a bit on "Ring Species."

I lack the authority, but I have the advantage, the upper hand and the knowledge ... the things which you lack.
Actaully what you are seeing is a major shift, among the cognoscenti concerning the Biological Species Concept. That is why you need to spend some time on ring species. I strongly recommend the body of work produced by my old professor, Robert Stebbins.

I NEVER rely to post this long and keep in mind that pictures are not evidence. You need to show how genetics allows what you believe.

Do you really not understand that for evolution to be true what happens MUST result in a change of species. A mutation that changes eye color is not an example of evolution.

 

[omega2xx]

You mistake my meaning. I have no issue with an assessment of the US education system being ranked outside the top 10. I'm Australian, and we make some of the same mistakes here.

My issue was in you linking religion to this, as if it would help. Have you studied some of the other countries listed in terms of what they do differently? Finland, in particular, is a fascinating case study.

I did not link religion to it.

I'd include parents and the opposition, as well. Out of interest, when do you think the US had the greatest education system in the world, and why?

I certainly agree that parents play a key roll. That is one reason home-schooled kids do much better on SAT tests.

I don't know when it hit its peak, probable in the 50's. The decline started when the influence of John Dewey became popular. One problem was that teachers were not well paid, so they formed unions. Unions and the DOE made the slope slipperier. Now teachers are more interested in getting more money, than teaching. I better say, not all teachers. Many are still dedicated to their profession.

I hope Trump eliminates teh DOE and turns education back to the states, where it belongs.

I do...but I've always been a little old school.

To bad we don't have more with an old school way of educating.

Many of those educators have never been in the non-academic world.[

Right. They need an experience that does not include tenure. Tenure is not needed for good teachers, only for the bad ones. Another idea that has contributed to the downfall of our education system.

True. I'm an ex-educator, and havecrun my own business as well as working in a fairly high pressure corporate job. When I was teaching I worked overseas in the private sector, for a logging company (trying to attract Western managers to remote locations by providing qualified teaching) as well as in the public sector in Australia. Even did a little university lecturing.

The more varied my life experience the more frustrated I grow with the education system. But I completely reject any assertiin that an increased presence of religion is what's required, and absolutely can't see what would lead anyone to that conclusion.

I basically agree religion should not be taught in public schools, l but that means morals are not taught and if any county is going to survive, it must have good morals.

Somebody said, "America is great because America is good, if America is no longer good, it will no longer be great.

 

[omega2xx]

I know you will not be able to understand this, but:

The only ignorance you have exposed is your own.​

I hope you can understand this, and I have put it in very simple language just for you. When people can't refute what is in simple language, it is because they don't understad it.


As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so he denial of God is the height of foolishness. R.C. Sproul

 

[Revoltingest]

https://rankingamerica.wordpress.com/category/education/
That article not only keeps America out of the top 10 in education, it puts us number2 in the ignorant ratings.

Teachers unions and the Government and the PC crowd has ruined what was once the greatest education system in the world. When colleges allow students the day off and don't hat to take exams so the poor little children can mourn over the election of Trump, they are no longer teachers, they have become enablers to teach that only what you believe is important and if you don' get your way, lay on he ground and have a temper tantrum .

That is pathetic, and you being an educator should know it.

When they get out into the real word wit a job and a boss, they are going to have rude awaking, and real educators should be preparing them for the real world.

If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you have a boss. He doesn't have tenure--Bill Gates---Lessons Bill Gates never learned in school

It's not so bad everywhere.
Me own daughter went to high school in The People's Republic Of Ann Arbor,
& then to the very left leaning U of Mich. She emerged unscathed but well
educated. She's coping well with the working world...& 60+ hour work weeks.

 

[omega2xx]

We know that the truth is you can not refute it.
This pigeon chess does not fool anyone outside the choir.


Ah yes, A favoured catch phrase for those who know they cannot support their claims.
Another popular one is "common sense",

A perfect example of you not understanding very simple language. Thanks.



As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so he denial of God is the height of foolishness. R.C. Sproul

 

[omega2xx]

It's not so bad everywhere.
Me own daughter went to high school in The People's Republic Of Ann Arbor,
& then to the very left leaning U of Mich. She emerged unscathed but well
educated. She's coping well with the working world...& 60+ hour work weeks.

Good for her. It show that really bright students, with dedication, can overcome even a bad situation. I am not suggesting that all schools are bad or that all teachers are bad, but the percentage has been steadily increasing over the past few year.

I am sure you and your wife contributed to her success also.

 

[omega2xx]

Because there is no reason to believe Revelation prophecy is coming true. Also because Christianity is not under attack. Sure, there are some people who do get nasty towards Christians, but there is no widespread or systematic discrimination towards it. Why the rant? Because the statements claimed by you and Omega are false and not based in reality.

What statements have I made that are false and not based on reality. Please be specific.


As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so he denial of God is the height of foolishness. R.C. Sproul

 

[Shadow Wolf]

ev·o·lu·tion·ist
ˌevəˈlo͞oSHənəst/
noun
plural noun: evolutionists

1. a person who believes in the theories of evolution and natural selection.

It's still not a valid term. We are not "magnitist" or "dopplerists" or "gamist." This "evolutionist" is nothing more than attempt by Conservative Christians to try to paint evolution as a belief system, but we don't believe Information theory, nor do we believe oxygen is combustible. We don't believe these things because we know them to be true. The same goes for evolution. It is not a belief system, but a scientific fact.

I looked him up and I am not sure his PhD is in real science.

Not in a real science? Just because you don't like him, or what neuropsychology tells us about our selves doesn't mean it's "not a real science."

One doesn't need a PhD in reading between the lines to know who he was referring to.

Actually, there is no needing to read between the lines in A Letter because he is upfront and direct about whom he is addressing.

There are creationist, biologists far more qualified than he is.

Very doubtfully. He is highly knowledgeable in the many religions of the world, he has studied Creationism, and because his sPhD deals with the brain, he has a good background in biology, as well as the advantage of having studied biologists and learning from them.

What statements have I made that are false and not based on reality. Please be specific.

Yours was that there is this hostility and aggression against Christianity. It's not there. If anything, Conservative Christians are the ones doing the attacking - attacks on minority rights, education, and even the environment.

 

[omega2xx]

Your avoidance is comical.


Given your post history, I have no idea if that is sincerity or sarcasm...

How sad.

As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so he denial of God is the height of foolishness. R.C. Sproul

 

[omega2xx]

It's still not a valid term. We are not "magnitist" or "dopplerists" or "gamist." This "evolutionist" is nothing more than attempt by Conservative Christians to try to paint evolution as a belief system, but we don't believe Information theory, nor do we believe oxygen is combustible. We don't believe these things because we know them to be true. The same goes for evolution. It is not a belief system, but a scientific fact.

Get real. Christians did not write that definition. When one is PROVEN wrong, the best advice is not to dig the hole any deeper. Tell me on thing the TOE has proved and how they proved it.

Not in a real science? Just because you don't like him, or what neuropsychology tells us about our selves doesn't mean it's "not a real science."

I did not say I did not like him. I just said he is not as qualified in biology as some creationist biologists, and he isn't.

Actually, there is no needing to read between the lines in A Letter because he is upfront and direct about whom he is addressing.

Very doubtfully. He is highly knowledgeable in the many religions of the world, he has studied Creationism, and because his PhD deals with the brain, he has a good background in biology, as well as the advantage of having studied biologists and learning from them.

Whether he is a spriritual person is irrelevant. This is about science and he is not as qualified in biology as those who have a PhD in biology

Yours was that there is this hostility and aggression against Christianity. It's not there. If anything, Conservative Christians are the ones doing the attacking - attacks on minority rights, education, and even the environment.

There is hostility towards Christianity in America. Conservative Christians do not attack those who disagree with them.

As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so he denial of God is the height of foolishness. R.C. Sproul

 

[omega2xx]

People have literally been saying that since the Church was established, but it has never happened. How can you even pretend to know these acts are prophecies being fulfilled, when Jesus himself said that only the Father knows when these events will happen, and that it shall come, unexpected, "like a thief in the night?"

Jesus also said to be aware of the times and told us what to look for. No I don't believe any of them have happened yet. IMO, the first sign that will tell us the end, right at hth door, is when the temple is being rebuilt. That is the only way the "abomination of desolation" can stand ind the holy place mentiond in Daniel 9:27).

And, do be aware, anarchy has not been spreading, nor has it increased, and I just am not seeing this hostility towards Christianity.

What planet do you live one. What do you think "occupy wall street," "black live matter," the protest about Trump's election are examples of? If you were a Christaisn you would see some of the hostility SOME Christians are experiencing.

After all, the majority of Americans are Christian.

America is far from having a majority of its people to be Christians.

Conservative Christianity is being pushed back, but that is because no one should ever be forced to adhere to religious dogma they do not believe in themselves. This is a "free" society, not a Christian-dictated society.

Your brush is way to wide. Some Christians do try to convert others, but most do not.

As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so he denial of God is the height of foolishness. R.C. Sproul

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I did not link religion to it.

Really? Perhaps I misunderstood your intent then. Your post I was responding to read as follows;

Your brush is way to wide. Most Christians do not do what you just described. Children are not well educated when all they get is the indoctrination of one side---religion or science. Unless evolution can be proved, and it can't, think of the damage the public school systems are doing to the students. Maybe that is one reason
America has fallen from first place to a about 14th in education systems around the world. That is a shame.

It seemed to read as if religion and science should be balanced in school, and that failure to do so was perhaps contributing to the decline in relative education standards when compared to the rest of the world.