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the Turnover from atheist to theist.

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
I am an atheist in heart and soul. only then my heart is only a device to pump blood through my body and the soul is more of an operationsystem..
Anyway, I cannot think of any way that I would become religious. The concept of God seems very weird to me and very unlogical. I need to bend my thoughts very much to come even close. Even if my mother would survive a planecrash as only survivor on my birthday and I had a dream about that the previous day, would not give me a reason to start believing.

Ok, now my question(s) :rolleyes: :
Mostly to the people that did turn over to "the religious side".
What happened that made you suddenly believe?

To the ones that didn't turn over:
Can you think of something that could turn you over? (besides God showing himself to the world :p )

And to people who had the turnover the other way around:
What made you lose your religion?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Bouncing Ball said:
I am an atheist in heart and soul. only then my heart is only a device to pump blood through my body and the soul is more of an operationsystem..
Anyway, I cannot think of any way that I would become religious. The concept of God seems very weird to me and very unlogical. I need to bend my thoughts very much to come even close. Even if my mother would survive a planecrash as only survivor on my birthday and I had a dream about that the previous day, would not give me a reason to start believing.

Ok, now my question(s) :rolleyes: :
Mostly to the people that did turn over to "the religious side".
What happened that made you suddenly believe?

To the ones that didn't turn over:
Can you think of something that could turn you over? (besides God showing himself to the world :p )

And to people who had the turnover the other way around:
What made you lose your religion?
I guess I 'turned to' the religious side; I was brought up with very little mention of Religion.

I guess I have always 'known' deep down that there is a lot more to our universe than we know about, and I have seen what can be done, forwhich logic and science has no explanation.

I guess there is another element. No matter how much I learn about evolution (and I am not an I.D'er), there is, to me, without doubt something intrinsically natural (I refuse to use the word 'supernatural' because there is nothing 'above' nature ) about our world, and all life on it.

That's the logic of it. Then there's the emotional 'bit' which is even more secure in my beliefs.;)
 

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
michel said:
I guess I 'turned to' the religious side; I was brought up with very little mention of Religion.

I guess I have always 'known' deep down that there is a lot more to our universe than we know about, and I have seen what can be done, forwhich logic and science has no explanation.

I guess there is another element. No matter how much I learn about evolution (and I am not an I.D'er), there is, to me, without doubt something intrinsically natural (I refuse to use the word 'supernatural' because there is nothing 'above' nature ) about our world, and all life on it.

That's the logic of it. Then there's the emotional 'bit' which is even more secure in my beliefs.;)
You didn't really make a turnover if you always had the feeling there was something..
I did however have a similar thing. I was raised as catholic and "turned" to atheist. I did have a bit the feeling that there was something, but I didn't really believe in God. And all those "thing" got an answer in the long run, turning me in a real atheist I guess.

I fail to see any intrinsically natural, all I see is patterns and order..
About the "no explaination from science" i have something to say. I think that every unknown aspect in science can still be answered by an scientific theory, although not proven. I see religion also as a theory, so there are completelly no things that religion can explain wich science can't. you just choose your theory.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
The first experience I ever had with sacrificial love convinced me of a higher purpose/God. Until such point as you see people actually LIVING their religion, life is empty and chaotic. God is love and those who truly follow him are mere servants sacrificing their lives for others. Sometimes they don't even know that they are following God: God knows those who love and try to love like he does.
 

Revasser

Terrible Dancer
I don't really know that I could pinpoint the moment that I realized that I no longer believed the atheism I was espousing at the time and shifted into "there's probably something out there."

As for reasons... well, at that point I was becoming very interested in religion from an intellectual standpoint. I'd always been interested in the myths from ancient cultures for as long as I could remember, and was just starting to get into the mythos of more recent religions (including the Abrahamics), which was more fun and interesting than I had previously given it credit for. So I was reading a lot about a lot of different religions and talking to people and I guess some of it must have just snuck in, because before I knew it, not only was I becoming a lot less hostile to religion and religious people, but I was starting to take some of it in on a deeper level than just intellectual.

At least, I think that's probably what happened. Like I said, it's hard to actually pin down when and exactly how it happened.
 

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
I feel similar to Revasser. Hard to pin these things down, and for good reason perhaps.

There was a time I strongly believed and participated in a particular 'religion'. I lost that by allowing myself to question it and putting its beliefs to test. It failed miserably to live up to the hype. I became a staunch atheist until I started having experiences that confused me. They weren't wholly outside what I'd learnt of neuropsychology and psychoanalytic theory, but there was more going on than I understood. Because of that I became agnostic, keeping my naturalist worldview but accepting that there were things outside the bounds of what I could intelligibly make sense of.

These are the two areas that puzzle me:

1) There is an experience of [insert appropriate metaphor here] that is typically reached when people meditate for a long time and/or undergo a falling away of ordinary perception leaving nothing to replace it. Non-dualistic thinking, buddhamind, Tao, etc. whatever it is it is certainly something that people commonly encounter. Although it can be somewhat explained in terms of brain chemistry there is great difficulty identifying the boundary between the phenomenal and the noumenal. It feels like some base noumenal quality of consciousness that is often overlooked. This opens up so many questions for me.

2) There is another experience that again brings up many questions. Different to the above it does not feel like some base quality of consciousness but a particular instance of a conscious awareness, i.e. an immensely powerful mind, alarming even, and only seemingly a 'mind' as such because it 'feels' a little like deeply being in love and having equanimity of thought through very sharply focused attention. However it is not these things, they are simply the best comparisons my mind can throw up. Again, this is a fairly common experience people have but there seems to be much more variation in the way people experience it and what they make of it than the first.

The latter area is the closest thing to a God I've come across, but what it really is beyond me. My best guess is that it is the ghost-echo of some amazing future event. If I believe anything about it then it tends to be that. However, I know that this is just an irrational response to something that fries my circuits. Thus I am ultimately agnostic.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
I grew up in church. My Dad is a deacon, I was in church every Sunday morning, every Sunday night and every Wednesday night. Even had to take Sunday afternoon teen classes for a while. Went to church camps, the whole bit. All I can say is, it never felt right, never seemed right, and never seemed logical to me.

Even as an 8 or 9 year old, I remember listening to the preacher and reading the Bible, and thinking that this stuff didn't really make sense. If the world was created in 6 days, and Adam was created that same week, then how do we explain dinosaurs, which everybody knew and acknowledged existed, but did not exist during the same period of time as man? A few years later, stories like Jonah and the Whale, and Noah and The Ark, began to bug me.

There was also the problem of a loving God, who loved each of us more than we loved each other, but that would be willing to send so many of us to a firey Hell to burn and be tormented for all of eternity. Even to a child, that seemed illogical. I guess I was burdened with a mind that requires things to make sense, and so much of what I was hearing in church just did not add up.

I also was pretty convinced that if there was a Hell, then I had almost no chance of escaping it. Our church taught that the Babtists were wrong in their concept of "once saved always saved" and there was lots of talk about backsliding. "If you are the greatest Christian in the world, but die with an unconfessed sin on your heart, then you are doomed to spend eternity in Hellfire" was something I heard so many times I memorized it.

So here I sit. I am about 13 or 14 years old, when an epiphany hit me. I could go to church 3 times a week, pray every single day, give 10% of everything I earn to the church, for my whole life, then one day, I step off a curb in front of a bus, and just before it hits me, say "oh sh!t!" and get to spend all of eternity in Hell because I died with a sin (cursing) on my heart, without having had the chance to confess it, and ask for forgiveness. Bear in mind, I had come very close to meeting my demise already, and I know, because I can remember, that there were a lot of "Oh Sh!t's" going through my head during the time of that close call.

It was at that time, that I came to the conclusion that I had no reasonable chance anyways, so why bother. I still went to church, because there was no choice in the matter, and I stuffed a Louis L'Amour western novel into my shirt, and tucked it away inside my bible, and read that every Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. I still heard all the stories from the Bible, and many of them still did not make any sense, but I quit getting real worried about praying quite so often, tho I still did on occasion.

Then when I got into college, in an effort to make Christian Religion make sense, I became a History major, and started studying, with intensity the history of the Western World. Which if anyone has taken any college level history classes, you may remember, is written in blood. A study of history is the study of religion, politics and war, and the the 3 are often intertwined. It was then that I had yet another epiphany.

When studying the Greeks, the Romans, and especially the Egyptians, all great civilizations of the ancient Western world, I realized that there were massive civilizations that grew up, lived, died out and were replaced, all without ever having heard of what I had always been told was the one true God. Literally millions of people in Egypt for thousands of years were worshipping the Sun God Ra, and worshipped the Pharoa as a living God. Same with the pantheon of Greek and Roman gods. These society's were the dominant cultures on the planet Earth at the time of their power, and not a single one of them were worshipping Jehovah. I recall sitting in class one day and asking myself the question that has plagued me ever since. . .

Why is it any more, or less likely, that Jehovah (who everybody knows exists) to exist, than for Ra, Zeuss, Athena, etc. etc. etc. (who everybody knows do not exist) to exist?

This blasphemous thought burdened me greatly, and I began delving deeper and deeper, into both history and theology, hoping I might find some nugget, some evidence to bring me back to the faith I was brought up in. Because, after all, the reward promised to a faithful Christian is a pretty nice reward, and the punishment for the unfaithful is dire indeed. However, sadly, and this continues on to the present time, the deeper I researched, the more I read, the more I learned, the more clear it becomes that there really is no more reason for beleiving in Jehovah than there is to beleive in Ra, or Zeuss.

So that is how I turned, in a long winded answer to the OP.

B.
 
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mr.guy

crapsack
Marijuana makes me want to believe in god. It's the only argument he really has locked down, in my eyes.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Bouncing Ball said:
You didn't really make a turnover if you always had the feeling there was something..
I did however have a similar thing. I was raised as catholic and "turned" to atheist. I did have a bit the feeling that there was something, but I didn't really believe in God. And all those "thing" got an answer in the long run, turning me in a real atheist I guess.

I fail to see any intrinsically natural, all I see is patterns and order..
About the "no explaination from science" i have something to say. I think that every unknown aspect in science can still be answered by an scientific theory, although not proven. I see religion also as a theory, so there are completelly no things that religion can explain wich science can't. you just choose your theory.
You didn't really make a turnover if you always had the feeling there was something..
When I say 'something' I was not meaning 'God'.......just 'something' bigger than us. But I suppose it comes to the same thing; I just later named it 'God'.;)
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
i don't think i was really atheist but i was definetly agnostic at one point.
the concept of G-d was nice for philosophical or theological waxing but please don't interfere in my life thank you very much.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Was atheist for at least half of my life. The other half has been spent pondering over why my mind can go far beyond what I can see, feel, hear, smell, and touch. The immesurable......By this I mean not only that these are everyday, familiar, run-of-the-mill phenomena - not something weird, spooky, paranormal, or occult. More to the point, beliefs, desires, and meaningful use of language belong, in their own right, to what, on any reasonable construal, is to be termed the world of "nature". It is part of our nature, as human beings, to form beliefs, desires, and intentions and to act on them, and to learn and use languages with semantic structures to communicate with our fellows. So me becoming a theist/Religious was only a response to that.
 

Bangbang

Active Member
I think that God would have to speak to me directly before I could even begin to believe. We would have to have a very seriuos talk and I would demand direct answers to alot of questions......then I would write a book about it. I AM WAITING!!!!!!!Knockout
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
I think my journey to HaShem and judaism began when i met Rachel. At first i was extremely leary about Judaism, as i was w/ most other forms of organized religion. I kept it all at arms length at first and then, as our relationship grew and i began to understand her better, i decided to research this faith that she loved so much. At first it became essentially a Rachel fact finding mission, like sneaking into someone's room to read their diary. Before long it had overtaken me. I found the world view of Judaism and it's long history of debate and questioning a refreshing change from the religions that others, including w/in my family, had tried to force feed me. Eventually i began to read Torah itself, along w/ commentary, and began attending minyan services on a daily basis.

Judaism's rich tradition of study, debate, and more study appealed to me intellectually and spiritually, something i never found anywhere else.
 

c0da

Active Member
I was Atheist until i stumbled upon Buddhism on t'internet. I read through the teachings and the values of the religion on a website and it appealed to me instantly. Also, the meditation techniques can be extremely calming.
 

Cynic

Well-Known Member
Bouncing Ball said:
I am an atheist in heart and soul. only then my heart is only a device to pump blood through my body and the soul is more of an operationsystem..
Anyway, I cannot think of any way that I would become religious. The concept of God seems very weird to me and very unlogical. I need to bend my thoughts very much to come even close. Even if my mother would survive a planecrash as only survivor on my birthday and I had a dream about that the previous day, would not give me a reason to start believing.

Ok, now my question(s) :rolleyes: :
Mostly to the people that did turn over to "the religious side".
What happened that made you suddenly believe?

To the ones that didn't turn over:
Can you think of something that could turn you over? (besides God showing himself to the world :p )

And to people who had the turnover the other way around:
What made you lose your religion?
I grew up in the church and was very devout as a believer. Well, my loss of religious beliefs was a process that happened over time due to multiple circumstances. One major reason is because it didn't seem that God was there, listening or watching over me, because of a list of events that occured in my life.

I've honestly thought about becoming religious again here and there, I started praying one time, thinking about the possibility that a God might exist, etc.

But, turns out, I'm still agnostic/atheist, however my beliefs are getting more erratic by the day.

The skeptic/atheist mindset is a whole different world, I've been on both sides of the tracks. But I think the major reasons why that I would go back into being religious, is because of the way you can feel comforted in times of distress. Religion gave me a lot of hope, confidence, and less worry in life. It also gave life meaning and purpose. I also felt comforted by the idea that a God unconditionally loved me. Rationality and logic can come down to a nihilistic perspective where there is no meaning or point in life, other than to just live. I think that such things as meaning and purpose are essential to a life, and that ultimately, religion is a way to fill this gap. I think it's through man's inquisitiveness and the need of meaning and purpose that religion was born and had evolved, perhaps with the human mind.
 

d.

_______
Bouncing Ball said:
Mostly to the people that did turn over to "the religious side".
What happened that made you suddenly believe?
hello all, this will be my first post. i hope it's ok if i plunge into the discussion right away - i'd rather skip the introduction forum if i can, since i never know what to say on those things. i have enough of that applying for jobs. :) hopefully this post will serve as a minor introduction instead.

i jumped on this topic as it adresses the reason i came to these forums to begin with. all my life, since perhaps age 12 or 13, i've called myself agnostic. mainly because i've never been able to swallow any 'metaphysical claim of knowledge' meaning someone claiming to know something about what noone can know anything about. this goes for atheism too - the very idea of saying 'this is the way it's most likely to be' when we're talking about something that most probably is way beyond human capacity to comprehend just seems absurd to me. (no offense intended, it's just the way i see things)

obviously to those that do claim to 'know' (or believe), it's a matter of faith, and i can't (and don't want to) argue with faith. i'm kind of pragmatist about these things - if you can't know (and by knowledge i mean a reasonable working hypothesis ;) ) don't worry about it.

all the same, i've always, throughout my life, had a deep sense of something that i've really never been able to communicate. if i had to put a name on it, i would call it magic(as in wonder, not as in spells or illusions). all the same, these words are misguiding and futile.

the only way i know it can be communicated is through the arts, especially music. probably because i am a musician and the medium appeals to me, but also because music in a sense is a language without words. in text, you can try to communicate meaning "beyond language", but you have to try and escape the narrowness of words, their exactness. good music is direct in a different way. it speaks directly to the "soul", without detours. recent years, i've called myself a spiritual agnostic so not to deny this experience.

anyway, this wasn't supposed to turn into an arts manifesto:help: - i'm sorry if my rambling gets annoying - i'm just trying to provide some background here. so anyway, what happens is my interest in chinese music and culture (in that order;)) leads me to taoism, and i've known about taoism for a long time, but never really bothered to investigate it in-depth (i'm a happy agnostic, remember?).

to cut a long story short (too late!), the tao te ching completely floored me. every word in it rang true, as if an infinitely older and wiser me had written it. and now, after reading four more translations of it, i've realised i'd been something resembling a taoist all along.

because what the tao te ching doesn't do is make the metaphysical claim of knowledge(at least that's not how i read it) it can, in a way, be considered an agnostic religion. it fits in perfectly with my philosophy, and the way i see things. and most importantly, it speaks to me. it's intensely meaningful and precious to me.

if i could, i would call myself a spiritual agnostic/taoist on these boards, but there's too little space... i really don't know if 'real' taoists would consider me a taoist, but i want to investigate taoism further, and i also love an interesting debate regardless, and that's why i joined this forum. seems like a nice place so far!

so to answer the question posed in the first post, what happened was i received a kind of guidance through the tao te ching which made me able to settle the conflict between my worldview and the "spiritual". i guess you could argue that i was religious or spiritually inclined all along, and maybe you're right. but i don't see it that way - to me, it was a radical change.

 

CAPPA

Member
In Response to Bouncing Ball's question

- Religion, my friend, is a fiend, a distraction, and most importantly a lie. There is a great number reasons why I would never be able to consider myself a religious person (humor included).

1.) there is no real proof of there being a god (voices in your head do not count)

2.) there is/has been no interaction to any such supreme being (throw a ball... won't get it back)

3.) the trials and tribulations in my life have been overcome by myself and my family not a higher power's help (heard voices, but they were about guns and stuff.. definitely not god)

4.) the real world and all it's chaos serves as proof against any such being (asked god for rain, got a hurricane)

5.) the evil acts of man that have been unchallenged through out time and still continue, can not possible resemble the works of a higher/all loving/powerful spirit (GOD TOLD me to TAKE A PLANE INTO THE SHINNY BUILDING)






:sarcastic




Cappa's Thoughts
 

Squirt

Well-Known Member
Bouncing Ball said:
Ok, now my question(s) :rolleyes: :
Mostly to the people that did turn over to "the religious side".
What happened that made you suddenly believe?
Okay, this may sound dumb, but I was born believing. I am the exact opposite from you. No matter what I do, I cannot convince myself that there is not a God. I have, on occasion, tried to talk myself out of believing in Him, but I can't. And to me, your perspective is an difficult to comprehend as mine probably is to you.

I did see something on TV awhile back. It had something to do with what some scientists have referred to as the "God gene." As it turns out, some people have this gene and some do not, and it apparently ties very closely to their inclination to be a believer or a non-believer. Science is definitely not my strong point, so I can't give you any more information. I might be able to find something online, though. If I do, I'll pass it on to you.

I mention this primarily because it has helped me come to terms with the atheistic viewpoint. For a long, long time, I used to think, "How can anybody be so stupid as to not believe in God?" I'm sure that many an atheist has often thought the reverse: "How can anyone be so stupid as to believe in God?" Maybe it really does have something to do with how we're "programmed." The one thing I will say is that I have decided that intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with whether one is a believe or not. There are brilliant and stupid people on both sides of the fence.
 
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