The two buttons

[Koldo]

For the sake of this topic, you have been granted a joystick with two buttons, the triangle button and the square button. Now here is how it works:

You can press only one button. And not more than once.

If you press the triangle button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, dies. Right away.

If you press the square button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, gets a complete change of mind. This person will never again commit any evil action and shall not be further punished for any of the past crimes.

What button would you press and why?

Here is my, most certainly, unpopular opinion: I would quickly press the triangle button. I will take justice over recovery any and every time.

Here is my perspective on justice:

When it is possible to repair the damage caused, justice is better served by doing so.

When it is not possible to repair the damage caused, justice is better served by punishing the perpetrator. Plus, there must be proportionality between the crime and the punishment.

 

[Salty Booger]

What can I do with the joystick?

 

[Eddi]

For the sake of this topic, you have been granted a joystick with two buttons, the triangle button and the square button. Now here is how it works:

You can press only one button. And not more than once.

If you press the triangle button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, dies. Right away.

If you press the square button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, gets a complete change of mind. This person will never again commit any evil action and shall not be further punished for any of the past crimes.

What button would you press and why?

Here is my, most certainly, unpopular opinion: I would quickly press the triangle button. I will take justice over recovery any and every time.

Here is my perspective on justice:

When it is possible to repair the damage caused, justice is better served by doing so.

When it is not possible to repair the damage caused, justice is better served by punishing the perpetrator. Plus, there must be proportionality between the crime and the punishment.

I agree with you:

Pressing the square button would mean there would be no justice for his victims - it would mean that he got off "scott free" with no punishment. Why should he get to continue his life - especially if he was a murderer who took the lives of many others? Even if it would reform him

I'd press the triangle button - his life being discontinued would serve as his punishment and be a measure of justice

 

[Koldo]

What can I do with the joystick?

Joy stick.

 

[Rival]

And if the wicked man repent of all his sins that he has committed and keeps all My laws and executes justice and righteousness, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he has committed shall not be remembered regarding him: through his righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Do I desire the death of the wicked? says the Lord God. Is it not rather in his repenting of his ways that he may live? -Yechezkel 18:21-23.

And when a wicked man repents of his wickedness that he has done, and does justice and righteousness, he will keep his soul alive. He will see and repent of all his transgressions that he has committed-he shall surely live; he shall not die. -Yechezkel 18:27-28.

 

[Salty Booger]

Joy stick.

Old School...back when there was a single stick to control the action.

 

[Quintessence]

I would ask them what they would prefer and carry out their will accordingly.

Isn't it interesting that humans sometimes pass judgement on others without asking the judged what they want for themselves?

 

[danieldemol]

For the sake of this topic, you have been granted a joystick with two buttons, the triangle button and the square button. Now here is how it works:

You can press only one button. And not more than once.

If you press the triangle button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, dies. Right away.

If you press the square button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, gets a complete change of mind. This person will never again commit any evil action and shall not be further punished for any of the past crimes.

What button would you press and why?

Here is my, most certainly, unpopular opinion: I would quickly press the triangle button. I will take justice over recovery any and every time.

Here is my perspective on justice:

When it is possible to repair the damage caused, justice is better served by doing so.

When it is not possible to repair the damage caused, justice is better served by punishing the perpetrator. Plus, there must be proportionality between the crime and the punishment.

I would take the square button. You have one more productive person in the world and revenge does nothing to repair the damage done.

Besides, if there was something repairably wrong with the mind of the criminal it wasn't really their fault as it could have just as easily been you who was dealt the defective mind in the cosmic game of chance that forms us as individuals.

 

[Koldo]

I would ask them what they would prefer and carry out their will accordingly.

Isn't it interesting that humans sometimes pass judgement on others without asking the judged what they want for themselves?

I am intrigued. Why do you find that interesting?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

My idea of justice isn't vengeance based. I'm more about rehabilitation and restorative justice than retribution.

Besides, there's nothing a corpse can do to better a society, whereas a person who has been rehabilitated can.

Further, people who have been wronged waiting for revenge is literally unhealthy. Nobody's healing or sense of closure should be based on what happens to the person who wronged you.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

For the sake of this topic, you have been granted a joystick with two buttons, the triangle button and the square button. Now here is how it works:

You can press only one button. And not more than once.

If you press the triangle button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, dies. Right away.

If you press the square button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, gets a complete change of mind. This person will never again commit any evil action and shall not be further punished for any of the past crimes.

What button would you press and why?

The most evil criminal in the world, in my perspective, is me. And I will GRUDGINGLY press the square button. I said "grudgingly" because I have no desire to live in this world in such a painful state of mind and spirit.

Why do I prefer the square button over the triangle? Because, by doing so, I am setting the wheels in motion for the creation of an entity that can only do good because of it's inability to do bad. What I'll do will lead to a formation of entity that'll only add positive value to the world, and will only breed all that is constructive and beneficial. It's more beneficial than to destroy it for sins that happened in the past which have absolutely no bearing on the future.

And God can undo the evils this criminal has done through His Infinite Power and Might. God have Power over all things, including his sins and his sinful pasts. God can give justice to his victims through His Might and/or punish him in afterlife and/or just outright erase what he did through His Power.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Square button, absolutely.

Far too many people confuse the notion of "justice" with simple revenge. And I think that's wrong.

I say this with what I truly believe and hope is real honesty -- If someone has done me a great harm, for example by killing someone I love, I do not think that I would get that loved one back, nor would I feel better by simply killing the perpetrator. And since no actual good could come out of that second killing, while a very real good will come from pressing the square button, it is the only thing that can possibly make sense.

 

[Koldo]

Square button, absolutely.

Far too many people confuse the notion of "justice" with simple revenge. And I think that's wrong.

I say this with what I truly believe and hope is real honesty -- If someone has done me a great harm, for example by killing someone I love, I do not think that I would get that loved one back, nor would I feel better by simply killing the perpetrator. And since no actual good could come out of that second killing, while a very real good will come from pressing the square button, it is the only thing that can possibly make sense.

I would say the problem with revenge is that it may or may not be just. It might not be proportional, for example.That's why revenge and justice are distinct.

How does justice play out on this case when you press the square button though? Do you think it is just and if so why?

 

[Koldo]

And if the wicked man repent of all his sins that he has committed and keeps all My laws and executes justice and righteousness, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
All his transgressions that he has committed shall not be remembered regarding him: through his righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Do I desire the death of the wicked? says the Lord God. Is it not rather in his repenting of his ways that he may live? -Yechezkel 18:21:23.

And when a wicked man repents of his wickedness that he has done, and does justice and righteousness, he will keep his soul alive. He will see and repent of all his transgressions that he has committed-he shall surely live; he shall not die. -Yechezkel 18:27-28.

On this particular case though, it is not the wrongdoer that has repented all by himself. Don't you think that changes everything?

Plus, what exactly does it mean to repent?
Is it just feeling regret or does it have to involve some sort of action?

 

[Rival]

On this particular case though, it is not the wrongdoer that has repented all by himself. Don't you think that changes everything?

Well, your OP said,

If you press the square button, the most evil criminal in the world, in your perspective, gets a complete change of mind. This person will never again commit any evil action and shall not be further punished for any of the past crimes.

That's at least a kind of repentence. I'm not sure how much more a person could possibly do, really. If he's had a change of mind, he's going to see his past actions as sinful. That's part of repentence. He's never going to do those acts again. That's the other part. So I'd class that as repentence of at least a kind.

 

[Koldo]

I would take the square button. You have one more productive person in the world and revenge does nothing to repair the damage done.

This sounds like an utilitarian point of view.
Do you see value in justice itself? If yes, how do you weight against other things? Do you think that pressing the square button is also more just?

Besides, if there was something repairably wrong with the mind of the criminal it wasn't really their fault as it could have just as easily been you who was dealt the defective mind in the cosmic game of chance that forms us as individuals.

I don't understand your wording.
What if someone has something unrepairably wrong with their minds? Does that make them more responsible for their actions?

 

[Koldo]

Well, your OP said,

That's at least a kind of repentence. I'm not sure how much more a person could possibly do, really. If he's had a change of mind, he's going to see his past actions as sinful. That's part of repentence. He's never going to do those acts again. That's the other part. So I'd class that as repentence of at least a kind.

It is forced repentence. Do you think it works just as fine as per your quote?

 

[Rival]

It is forced repentence. Do you think it works just as fine as per your quote?

He's changed his mind either way. I'm good with that. There's no point killing folks if we can help it.

 

[Koldo]

My idea of justice isn't vengeance based. I'm more about rehabilitation and restorative justice than retribution.

I am big fan of restorative justice myself, to the point we should always seek it first and foremost. But how to have justice when it is impossible to restore what was lost?

Besides, there's nothing a corpse can do to better a society, whereas a person who has been rehabilitated can.

Further, people who have been wronged waiting for revenge is literally unhealthy. Nobody's healing or sense of closure should be based on what happens to the person who wronged you.

I think people should be punished when they can't recover what was lost regardless of whether the victims want it to happen. I envision justice as a social virtue, regardless of what form it takes.

 

[Hellbound Serpiente]

Not to mention the change in mind comes by default through the desire for achieving redemption. It's the dominant desire that guides our thoughts.