The two paths

[NobodyYouKnow]

In all honesty, I cannot become a renunciant in this lifetime.

Although the material world, possessions and such mean nothing to me, the world means something to me in the fact that I cannot abide by the plain stupidity of others and if I was to become a sannyasi, I wouldn't care about all this stupid s*** either, ya dig?

It has become such a huge obstacle in my sadhana, that I have had to turn to the Buddhist teachings of compassion and loving kindness before I am even ready to take that next step.

I wonder how many people take sannyasa because that's their only option left? They are totally broke, have no accommodation, are single (and wish to remain thus), believe in either a God, or in Yoga...so becoming a renunciant, begging for alms and traveling from place to place becomes necessary for survival?

This is why I would have no problems and no hesitation in 'giving up everything', because Karma has basically put me in that position anyway.

I just need to give up my disgust for humanity (not everybody, but I cannot watch the news without wanting to destroy my TV set) before I can even think about this.

Om Namah Shivaya

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Hehe, the guy (or is that a woman?) at the front on the right looks like a ghost ...

That's the whole point. lol

Jai Bhuteshwar!!!

 

[Poeticus]

I just need to give up my disgust for humanity (not everybody, but I cannot watch the news without wanting to destroy my TV set) before I can even think about this.

Avoid the news at all costs!
No, wait...do not trust it! ​

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Avoid the news at all costs!
No, wait...do not trust it! ​

I have thought about 'not trusting it', but how does one do that without fully denying what is happening in the world?

I mean, I don't really want to know if WW3 is about to start or if an asteroid is on a collision course...

When my parents told me about that plane crash, all I could think of was 'good! less humans'.

Thing is, then, I must contend myself with 'ignorance being bliss'...and we all know it's not like that.

*yay, post #2000

Om Namah Shivaya

 

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste,

Perhaps this article on "the two paths" from Hinduism Today (in PDF form) may prove
interesting for members in this thread:

www.hinduismtoday.com/pdf_downloads/.../WIH_Sec1_Chapter10.pdf

JAI MATA DI

 

[Vinayaka]

LOL, you shaiva-s are scary, wanting to carry trishUls around and take bhikShA using actual skulls...jk

Not this Saiva ... only in some schools, and those are fairly rare I believe.

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste JS

quote js: " LOL, you shaiva-s are scary, wanting to carry trishUls around and take bhikShA using actual skulls...jk"

I have seen LOTS more scary than just a nice skull bearer in San Francisco (as well as Berkeley, LA, and even Disneyland). Like some bum coming up in the Tenderloin and saying (threats, aggressive), "Give me a dollar or I will throw AIDS blood on you!" and horrible things like that. We now have "knock out game" and you won't believe some of the freaks and deviants.

So a few nice skull bearers with trishuls on the weekend who can actually help protect society would be super welcome.

Some of the worse freaks of all wear a 3 piece suit. Though there is no doubt in my mind, there are also those who wear a 3 piece suit who would rather love the chance to wear ashes on their face, gook in their hair, and bear a skull on weekends. They yearn in their heart for such a chance if revealed, and "join the club".

Speaking of trishuls, here in America every citizen has the Second Amendment right to Keep and Bear Tridents (or for that matter Kirpans too), and those sandfly politicians who don't agree are nothing but despots. Of course, private facilities such as banks have the right to make you "check your trident at the door, partner", of course, but I wouldn't be planning a visit to the bank with a trishul anyway.

Namaste MV

I hear you are not married?

I would definitely, DEFINITELY recoomend it! Hope you can find a nice Hindu girl. Speaking personally, my wife increased my Hindu spiritual path greatly, it seems to me the NUMBER ONE "defender" and preserver of Hinduism in India and all over the world is the women in the homes, the bread bakers, the women keep all the scriptures and Devatas preserved in action and in memory and story and love.

Frankly, if it weren't for my wife of decades, I probably would be dead by now.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Vinayaka]

Perhaps, it is the ardent seeking of gaining a
celibate, renunciate-like life that is bothersome.
Should one go looking for this path? Or does it
come naturally like a heat-like essence rising
outwards from within?​

I think it comes naturally. It's a natural outcome of many lifetimes reducing karmas to a minimum, living virtuously, and much much more. it's not an escape from the world, or the world of action. Renunciate life is tougher than householder life, striving to be in a constant state of sadhana. 'Out here' we can relax some.

 

[Vinayaka]

Namaste,

Perhaps this article on "the two paths" from Hinduism Today (in PDF form) may prove
interesting for members in this thread:

www.hinduismtoday.com/pdf_downloads/.../WIH_Sec1_Chapter10.pdf

JAI MATA DI

Somehow the link didn't get to the correct chapter, at least not for me. But, yes that would probably be a great explanation.

 

[Poeticus]

it's not an escape from the world, or the world of action.

Could it be, perhaps...

That renunciation is ultimate action?​

 

[Vinayaka]

Could it be, perhaps...

That renunciation is ultimate action?​

the ultimate action, yes, that's definitely one way I'd look at it. Been there, done that, to the extreme. Materialism, the other 3 goals of Hinduism, etc. no longer hold sway, so I guess its time.

 

[Poeticus]

no longer hold sway, so I guess its time.

Nooooooo!​

Don't leave me! :sad:​

 

[Vinayaka]

Nooooooo!​

Don't leave me! :sad:​

The way a sannyasin would see it ... not me ... yet ... maybe next lifetime, or the next, or the next... from the very little interaction I've had with sannyasins, that was one key though ... they definitely knew without a doubt that they wanted to be a monk.

 

[Poeticus]

The way a sannyasin would see it ... not me ... yet ... maybe next lifetime, or the next, or the next... from the very little interaction I've had with sannyasins, that was one key though ... they definitely knew without a doubt that they wanted to be a monk.

Just a quick question:​

...is it that they want...
...or is it that they need...

To be a monk?​

 

[Vinayaka]

Just a quick question:​

...is it that they want...
...or is it that they need...

To be a monk?​

I would go with 'they need'. It's an unexplainable mystical event, that last drive towards the Self, from what I've read. I think if it was a 'want', it just wouldn't be the same.

After about 10 days of absence, I 'need' to go to the temple. Certainly more than a mere want. I also think this stuff is mostly beyond words, when it happens to a soul searching for the ultimate truth.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

I think of it this way, if God didn't want me to become a renunciant, He would not take away everything from me I get as soon as I get it. I mean, what's the point of doing that?

There's no other logical explanation as to why I am not allowed to have/own anything.

There's a message in there, somewhere.

Om Namah Shivaya

 

[Poeticus]

I would go with 'they need'. It's an unexplainable mystical event, that last drive towards the Self, from what I've read. I think if it was a 'want', it just wouldn't be the same.

After about 10 days of absence, I 'need' to go to the temple. Certainly more than a mere want. I also think this stuff is mostly beyond words, when it happens to a soul searching for the ultimate truth.

Thanks for explaining, Vinayaka.
I believe that I understand this
"need". I have a small havan-kund,
you see. And, if I don't conduct
a mini-yajna two to three times a
week, I fall into the same boat as
you. ​

 

[Vinayaka]

Old thread, new thoughts.

Some days I don't think we realise how distinct the two paths in Hinduism are. It can get confusing, because we read a book, or hear a teaching that was really meant for the other path, not for the one that we're on. It leads to things like not being ready for certain esoteric teachings, or guilt from not being able to live up to the stuff you've heard about, but actually wasn't intended for you. If you're sitting in on a swami's talk, and he's talking to monks and sannyasins primarily, it might be more beneficial just to close your ears to avoid it.

I've personally seem a couple of marriages fail because one of the spouses took it upon themselves to act and behave like a sannyasin. Hence the family struggles.

For the grihastha, look at what good wealth can do for the planet. I can't remember the scripture exactly, because I'm not a scripture kind of guy, but there is one that basically states that the sole purpose of acquiring wealth is to give it all away. Now that suits certain billionaires who've pledged to donate 99% to charity. Can you imagine what problems this world would be without if more philanthropists did that, and did it wisely? Big change, big time. That's a true and valid goal. Certainly the guy who wants to combine that with sannyas won't reach that one.

Of course, as with all things Hinduism, different schools view the separation of the two paths differently. In Saiva Siddhanta it's a pretty well-defined line. Either you're a monk, or you ain't.

Thoughts?