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The Tyranny of the Minority

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
OK, this has been bugging me for some time now. I do understand the idea of the tyranny of the majority and the need to provide space for dissenting voices and consciences. I also understand the need for the majority, when someone says that they're being marginalized, to take a look at themselves and examine the ways in which they may be contributing to this marginalization. For me, when a person of color, or women, or GLBT, or a member of a minority faith group talks about their feeling offended by the way something is done, I try to make my first reaction be to listen and empathize. It may be that the way we do things reflect systemic bias that I'm not aware of, and the only way to be aware of it is to listen to others.

BUT, I honestly think that there are times when we UUs go overboard with this. When the whole group is so sensitive to the idea of offending even one person that we as a group become hostage to the feelings of that person or persons, particularly if they are of historically marginalized status.

ex #1) A group of twelve UUs went out to a comedy club one evening. It was a place where you eat dinner first and then watch the show. We had gotten there early and had great seats up front near the stage. Before the show actually started but after the place had filled up, one of our group became bothered by the occasional cigarette fumes that made it over to us from the smoking section. Most of us didn't even notice it until she pointed it out. We offered to have her sit at the far end of our group, as far away from the fumes as possible. But she said she couldn't stand it and went to sit on the other side of the room, towards the back. That's fine. My beef is then that others within the UU group couldn't stand the idea of this woman sitting alone, so half of us decided to move along with her. And because half of us decided to move, the rest of us had to go also. This meant that we had to settle the bill with our first waiter and then start another tab with a second waiter. It also meant that we had to order more drinks than we otherwise would have so as not to screw the second waiter, who is depending on tips from orders to make a living. Regardless, both waiters ended up having to do more work for less money, and we lost our prime seats because one person didn't like the location and we as a group bowed to the one person.

ex #2) Today at church the choir sang Amazing Grace. We've sung it many times at church. It happens to be my favorite hymn. One of my pet peeves is how UUs will often substitute the word "soul" for "wretch" because they don't like the word "wretch." I've gotten used to that. But today I noticed that the choir changed the words to another part of the song. Instead of "I once was lost but now am found; was blind but now I see" they sang "I once was lost but now am found across the stormy sea." I thought that was odd but whatever. Well it turns out that the senior minister and music director intend for our congregation to permanently change the way we sing that song, not just the choir but all of us. One member of our congregation and choir, who is blind, objected to the "was blind but now I see" part as ableist. He's offended so now the whole congregation is supposed to stop singing those words.

I'm trying to be open here. I do understand how those words might be offensive to someone who is blind. But I am also thinking of how much those words mean to me personally. And I know how heavily invested many other people are in those words. If the senior minister and music director think that the congregation is going to happily sing "across the stormy sea" the next time we sing Amazing Grace they are in for a rude awakening.

So now I'm in the uncomfortable position of asking a question that I normally hear coming from conservatives, just how far are we willing to go with our "sensitivity" and how much is too much?
 

Radio Frequency X

World Leader Pretend
lilithu said:
So now I'm in the uncomfortable position of asking a question that I normally hear coming from conservatives, just how far are we willing to go with our "sensitivity" and how much is too much?

Without taking the opportunity to push my conservative BS on you, I will say that it really comes down to a matter of boundaries. Each of us are responsible as individuals for deciding what those should be.
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
Able-ism is incredibly complex- but the main point that I and many many many other disabled people try to get across is that being disabled does not mean that we are worse off than abled people- being disabled does not mean our lives are less meaningful, less fulfilling, less pleasurable, or something to be pitied.

To quote Harriet McBryde Johnson, whom I only wish I was as eloquent as,

"When nondisabled people start learning about disability, what seems most startling, most difficult to accept, is the possibility of pleasure.

...

We need to confront the life-killing stereotype that says we're all about suffering. We need to bear witness to our pleasures.

...

But I am also talking about those pleasures that are peculiarly our own, that are so bound up with our disabilities that we wouldn't experience them, or wouldn't experience them the same way, without our disabilities. I'm talking about pleasures that may seem a bit odd. Let me give some examples.

...

A nation within a nation, of Deaf people, capitalizes its name to demand recognition as a language group, equal to any in dignity and ferocious beauty. ... In an essay on smell, Helen Keller wrote that she could never warm up to another person who did not have a distinct and recognizable body odor. ... After decades of torment, Professor John Nash recognizes his delusions for what they are and lets voices and visions and mathematical creativity cohabit in a mind unlike any the world has ever known.

...

Throughout my life, the nondisabled world has told me my pleasures must be only mental, never physical. Thinking to help me, it has said my body is unimportant. I respectfully disagree. For me, the body- imperfect, impermanent, falling apart- is all there is. Through this body that needs the help of hands and machines to move, that is wired to sense and perceive, comes all pleasure, all life. My brain is only one among many body parts, all of which work through one another and cooperate as best they can. ... Now the body I live in doesn't only affect me. It is me.

The nondisabled world tells disabled people generally that our lot is unavoidably tragic, and if we're smiling, we're smiling through tears and despite suffering. In the face of these power social forces, I believe that living our strange and different lives, however we choose and manage to live them, is a contribution to the struggle. Living our lives openly and without shame is a revolutionary act."



Harriet McBryde Johnson also talks many times of the pleasures of rolling over smoothy paved concrete in her wheelchair, zipping past people on the street, gracefully rolling around obstacles... and that's another pleasure. I love the feeling of riding around in my scooter, or my wheelchair when I have to use it (rarely, and only when I go out for long periods of time that will require lots of walking). It's a very freeing experience. In a decade or so I will move from using a cane to being in a wheelchair, and that's nothing to be sad about. That's just how I will move.

The thing is, I don't want my cane taken away or to be out of my scooter or my wheelchair- I just want to be in that building, at the top of those stairs, I want to be able to go to the restroom in a stall that is big enough for me to move myself and with handrails to help with that movement. I actually get very distressed if I do not have mobility aids. It's comforting to have my them with me, they're beatiful to look at (this is about what my favourite cane looks like), they're strong, and they make a steady noise when I walk. In my dreams I either have my cane or am in a wheelchair. Whenever I see people stand up or walk I always wonder for a moment where their canes are.




Now for able-ism in Amazing Grace... first off, I'm not blind. I'm close to being "legally blind" with how terrible my vision is and I do have to wear dark glasses in sunlight or I get visual hallucinations, so I've been confused before for being blind- but I am not. My commentary is not as meaningful as a blind person's would be, but as far as I am aware, there are no blind people here at RF.

I really do not find it able-ist, because of the history and meaning of the song, and I do not find it to be used in a ill-putting manner. Were the song to go "and how horrible it is to live as a blind person but now I can see!" I would consider that to be very able-ist. In the context of the church- should it be changed? Maybe, but that is something the entire church should decide, not just a couple of people.
 

uumckk16

Active Member
lilithu said:
So now I'm in the uncomfortable position of asking a question that I normally hear coming from conservatives, just how far are we willing to go with our "sensitivity" and how much is too much?
I agree with Jay regarding the 2 situations. My personality would probably have made me move to be with the friend; it would have nothing to do with religion or anything, just me feeling bad that the person was alone. And plus because I can't stand cigarette smoke either :D

When it comes to the second situation...I'm in agreement with you, I think there's a certain point where we have to say enough is enough. As religious liberals it's difficult for us to say that. But I'll tell you - the only thing that's turned me off about UU is something that really bothers me, and that is the youth. So many of them do things that I don't consider right, yet it doesn't seem to bother the adults, and I wonder if it's right for the adults to condone their behavior. Maybe it's not just UU - in fact, I'm sure that there are kids like that in every religion. Teens are teens. Maybe it's just the fact that I've always had friends who shared my views on sex and drugs. Yet it is something that has bothered me quite a bit, and I can't help but notice the fact that I spend a lot of my time with youth "biting my tongue" if you will.

That's a little different from the situation you were describing, but I think it's the same basic problem. At what point do you say to someone "just deal with it" or "this has gone too far" (using kinder language of course :p)? I honestly (obviously) believe we should respect others, but we can't respect everyone all the time. We'll never get anywhere if we do that. I know that's probably not a sentiment I'll be praised among UUs for, but it's something I honestly believe. If you bend to everyone's whims constantly, you'll end up in an overly-politically-correct community that doesn't actually stand for anything. Then aren't we just upholding what those who criticize us say?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
jamaesi said:
Able-ism is incredibly complex- but the main point that I and many many many other disabled people try to get across is that being disabled does not mean that we are worse off than abled people- being disabled does not mean our lives are less meaningful, less fulfilling, less pleasurable, or something to be pitied.
I can't remember now if I ever saw someone in a wheelchair and thought, "Oh, you poor person." Probably at some time I did. But one of my dearest friends is in a wheel chair. We got to know each other when I was still a biologist. When he joined the lab, I'll admit that I wasn't particularly happy about the thought of having to rearrange things so that he could reach them. I of course scolded myself right away for my selfishness but the thoughts were still there.

It turned out that the physical adjustment was minimal. He could reach most things just fine without our majorly rearranging things. And those things that he needed help with I was happy to help because I quickly grew very fond of him. The biggest adjustment for me and for others in the lab was mental. I had to learn how to be around him without being uncomfortable, without scurrying out of the way when he passed by so as not to inconvenience him. Sad to say but I had to learn how to see the guy before the wheelchair.

Eventually I did learn that, and then I started to notice when we went out to eat or went strolling around Manhattan how other people stared at him or scurried out of the way. And I realized that it hadn't been just me; that this is something that he has to deal with all the time, and how tiring that must be for him. If I ever feel sorry for my friend at this point, it's not for the fact that he's in a wheelchair; it's for what he has to deal with from other people every day. And the "good intentioned" people are probably more annoying than the jerks.


jamaesi said:
The thing is, I don't want my cane taken away or to be out of my scooter or my wheelchair- I just want to be in that building, at the top of those stairs, I want to be able to go to the restroom in a stall that is big enough for me to move myself and with handrails to help with that movement.
That I understand and agree with. I'm all for making our building AND the way that we conduct services as accessible to everyone as possible. And if that means some inconvenience to the rest of us that's fine by me, because what's at stake here is the ability for someone to participate in community with us. So right now, because our old church doesn't have an elevator, only the first floor is accessible to people in wheelchairs and it also makes it harder for others who have mobility concerns. And I and most everyone I know at church will happily move a class or meeting to make sure that everyone can attend. That's not the same thing as changing the lyrics to a song.


jamaesi said:
Now for able-ism in Amazing Grace...

I really do not find it able-ist, because of the history and meaning of the song, and I do not find it to be used in a ill-putting manner. Were the song to go "and how horrible it is to live as a blind person but now I can see!" I would consider that to be very able-ist. In the context of the church- should it be changed? Maybe, but that is something the entire church should decide, not just a couple of people.
If the song went "and how horrible it is to live as a blind person but now I can see!" then I would be all in favor of changing it. The thing is that the song isn't talking about physical sight at all. It's talking about understanding something that one didn't understand before. And I can see how using vision as a metaphor for understanding might be annoying to someone who is blind. But that is part of our language. In fact, I used the word "see" in that context above. I can also see how our language reflects the biases of the majority, in this case those with sight. It's not like I'm not sympathetic to his argument. But again, how far do we go on this? There is another song that our children's choir sings occasionally where a line goes "Ya gotta walk the talk," meaning you have to practice what you preach. Should that be changed too to some nonsensical words that just happen to rhyme?

But actually, all ranting from me asside, you are spot on. A large part of the reason why I am mad is because this decision was made by two people without the say of the congregation. If the congregation as a whole decided to change the lyrics, I would still disagree, but I wouldn't be mad. It is not the fault of the guy who complained. He is just voicing his opinion. It's the fault of my senior minister and he is going to get an earful from me. :tsk:

Thanks Jamaesi. :)
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
Most of that post really wasn't directed at you so don't think I thought like, I dunno, you didn't know anything about it :eek:... but sort of a background of what the disabled thoughts to able-ism are.

I completely agree with you on the meaning of the word blind in the song and that things shouldnt be changed on the wants of one person (valid as their wants and concerns may be), there should be dialogue between all members before there's even thought to change.

I can't remember now if I ever saw someone in a wheelchair and thought, "Oh, you poor person."
What I like to tell people who do think that is not to feel pity for them, but to be happy they have freedom. Wheelchairs aren't a trap or a cage, they give those who otherwise would not be able to move around the ability to move freely and fully particpate in life. :)
Eventually I did learn that, and then I started to notice when we went out to eat or went strolling around Manhattan how other people stared at him or scurried out of the way. And I realized that it hadn't been just me; that this is something that he has to deal with all the time, and how tiring that must be for him. If I ever feel sorry for my friend at this point, it's not for the fact that he's in a wheelchair; it's for what he has to deal with from other people every day. And the "good intentioned" people are probably more annoying than the jerks.
Definately.

I have a printout I keep with me at all times for "helpful suggestions" from people who have no business talking to me about my health or medical history. I'm always shocked at what people- complete strangers!- will say or do to me. I've gotten everything from being asked if "I wished I was dead" to strangers coming up behind me and grabbing my wheelchair and PUSHING me around. That is terrifing to have my personal space violated like that. I've screamed bloody murder about it before out of FEAR, and duntcha know, I was being a bitter cripple who was so combative to someone trying to help.
There is another song that our children's choir sings occasionally where a line goes "Ya gotta walk the talk," meaning you have to practice what you preach. Should that be changed too to some nonsensical words that just happen to rhyme?
Ergh, I'd hope not. People in wheelchairs do say things like that such as "I'm going out for a walk" or "I have to run."



I'm just sort of trying to put a disabled view out here, sorry for the rambling and offtopicness. :eek: Education is a big hurdle for people with disabilities, there is so much that too much of the abled world is ignorant of with disability rights/culture/etc.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
uumckk16 said:
I agree with Jay regarding the 2 situations. My personality would probably have made me move to be with the friend; it would have nothing to do with religion or anything, just me feeling bad that the person was alone. And plus because I can't stand cigarette smoke either :D
The smoke was barely noticeable. No one else in our party noticed it and none of us are smokers. Even so, if it had been just me with the woman who objected to the smoke, I would have moved without much hesitation. But this wasn't just two people moving, it was twelve. And the night club had had to place three tables together to accomodate us and then had to do it again, not to mention clean off the tables that we left. Even those of us who favored moving acknowledged that we hosed both waiters, tho we tried to minimize the damage to them.


uumckk16 said:
When it comes to the second situation...I'm in agreement with you, I think there's a certain point where we have to say enough is enough. As religious liberals it's difficult for us to say that. But I'll tell you - the only thing that's turned me off about UU is something that really bothers me, and that is the youth. So many of them do things that I don't consider right, yet it doesn't seem to bother the adults, and I wonder if it's right for the adults to condone their behavior. Maybe it's not just UU - in fact, I'm sure that there are kids like that in every religion. Teens are teens. Maybe it's just the fact that I've always had friends who shared my views on sex and drugs. Yet it is something that has bothered me quite a bit, and I can't help but notice the fact that I spend a lot of my time with youth "biting my tongue" if you will.

That's a little different from the situation you were describing, but I think it's the same basic problem. At what point do you say to someone "just deal with it" or "this has gone too far" (using kinder language of course :p)? I honestly (obviously) believe we should respect others, but we can't respect everyone all the time. We'll never get anywhere if we do that. I know that's probably not a sentiment I'll be praised among UUs for, but it's something I honestly believe. If you bend to everyone's whims constantly, you'll end up in an overly-politically-correct community that doesn't actually stand for anything. Then aren't we just upholding what those who criticize us say?
I think the thing with the teens is a different issue. I'm not saying that your criticism isn't valid. I think you're right that in our efforts to be tolerant we can be too... well, wimpy when it comes to setting the boundaries of what is proper behavior. I also do think that we can respect everyone all the time. But respecting them doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with them or letting them do whatever they want. Sometimes respecting someone means letting them know that we think they can do better than they are doing.

What I was talking about isn't so much about passive tolerance of other people's behaviors (whether that tolerance is wise or not) but about the majority actively changing in order to accomodate the needs of the individual. And I do think that there are times when it is right for the majority to change in order to be more welcoming to others. But when we start getting to the point of changing things because it's "offensive" to some, well I think we are getting into dangerous territory. If a statement is clearly hateful, then yeah it shouldn't be said/sang at our church. But if the statement isn't hateful yet someone finds it offensive for personal reasons, well I'm sorry but I do often wonder why it is that people think they have the right to never be offended. Respecting each of us as individuals doesn't mean making the world revolve around each of us. In fact, that's quite impossible.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
jamaesi said:
Most of that post really wasn't directed at you so don't think I thought like, I dunno, you didn't know anything about it :eek:... but sort of a background of what the disabled thoughts to able-ism are.
Nah, I didn't think you were ranting at me. I understood that you were explaining your experiences. :) And I decided to share my experiences of how I learned to see more from my friend's perspective. As you said, much of the abled world just doesn't know, and the ignorance is understandable but still annoying. I'm actually very glad that you're giving us your perspective.


jamaesi said:
Ergh, I'd hope not. People in wheelchairs do say things like that such as "I'm going out for a walk" or "I have to run."
Actually, the guy who objected to the wording in "Amazing Grace" has used the phrase "I see" too. :p Granted that he is just as socialized into the way we talk as the rest of us are, but it's still ironic.
 

uumckk16

Active Member
lilithu said:
The smoke was barely noticeable. No one else in our party noticed it and none of us are smokers. Even so, if it had been just me with the woman who objected to the smoke, I would have moved without much hesitation. But this wasn't just two people moving, it was twelve. And the night club had had to place three tables together to accomodate us and then had to do it again, not to mention clean off the tables that we left. Even those of us who favored moving acknowledged that we hosed both waiters, tho we tried to minimize the damage to them.
Ah, I understand the situation better now. I can see how that could be a bit of a dilemma. And when I was pondering this I thought of situations where one friend was unhappy with our choice of spots for lunch and left, but the rest of us stayed because we were settled and happy. Selfish? Maybe. But I'm not sure it's necessarily wrong. I like your wording, "the tyranny of the minority." I guess what I should have said before which would have been more appropriate wording is that you can't please everyone all of the time. If that person moves that probably means they're okay with being alone. If I was the only person who wanted to do something and nobody else did, I'd most likely stick with the group because I don't like being alone. Not everyone's like that. :shrug:

I agree, though, that it's sort of a lose-lose, sticky situation. Either you abandon a friend or inconvenience the waitors. Blech.

lilithu said:
I think the thing with the teens is a different issue. I'm not saying that your criticism isn't valid. I think you're right that in our efforts to be tolerant we can be too... well, wimpy when it comes to setting the boundaries of what is proper behavior. I also do think that we can respect everyone all the time. But respecting them doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with them or letting them do whatever they want. Sometimes respecting someone means letting them know that we think they can do better than they are doing.
You're right that it's a different issue, it's just the first thing that came to mind. But I regret my wording; I shouldn't have used the word "respect", but rather "please" as I said above.

I like the way you phrased the sentiment I was trying to express. You put it much better than me :)

lilithu said:
What I was talking about isn't so much about passive tolerance of other people's behaviors (whether that tolerance is wise or not) but about the majority actively changing in order to accomodate the needs of the individual. And I do think that there are times when it is right for the majority to change in order to be more welcoming to others. But when we start getting to the point of changing things because it's "offensive" to some, well I think we are getting into dangerous territory. If a statement is clearly hateful, then yeah it shouldn't be said/sang at our church. But if the statement isn't hateful yet someone finds it offensive for personal reasons, well I'm sorry but I do often wonder why it is that people think they have the right to never be offended. Respecting each of us as individuals doesn't mean making the world revolve around each of us. In fact, that's quite impossible.
Yes, I absolutely see your point. I agree entirely (though I'm not sure you worded the bolded statement correctly? Or maybe I'm just reading it incorrectly :eek:). In the case of Amazing Grace I'm going to have to agree with what you and jamaesi have already said, that the wording isn't referring to physically seeing, and that it should have been brought up for the entire congregation to consider rather than just a few individuals.
 

Pardus

Proud to be a Sinner.
To answer the first example, don't like it, lose that friend.

On the second example, lose that congregation.

Notice how i'm not the most popular person on this site? That's because i am willing to point this kind of thing out, it's alot easier for you to walk away because you will be pushed away if you speak up.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Pardus said:
To answer the first example, don't like it, lose that friend.

On the second example, lose that congregation.

Notice how i'm not the most popular person on this site? That's because i am willing to point this kind of thing out, it's alot easier for you to walk away because you will be pushed away if you speak up.
It's too easy to walk away. It shows a lack of commitment. The gist of the question is how we balance the needs of the individual with the needs of the community.

You may not have noticed but this thread is in the Unitarian Universalist discussion forum and I put it here for a reason. Input from non-UUs is welcome but kindly respect that leaving the community is not an option.
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
lilithu said:
So now I'm in the uncomfortable position of asking a question that I normally hear coming from conservatives, just how far are we willing to go with our "sensitivity" and how much is too much?
My thoughts on this matter are simple. If someone wants to change the words to a favored old hymn to satisfy a single person's sensitivities....I think the whole song should be dropped. I think it's ludicrous to change the lyrics of Amazing Grace to the words mentioned in the OP. Why not just sing other songs?

I agree with you......Amazing Grace a great, great song and should remain status quo. In my mind it shows great disrespect to the song's author and to the disappointed congregation. Surely you are not the only one disheartened by the changes.

BTW....the "Blind" word mentioned in the song doesn't mean literal blindness, it's more like "deliberate spiritual ignorance". I wonder why the offended party is so touchy?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Buttercup said:
My thoughts on this matter are simple. If someone wants to change the words to a favored old hymn to satisfy a single person's sensitivities....I think the whole song should be dropped. I think it's ludicrous to change the lyrics of Amazing Grace to the words mentioned in the OP. Why not just sing other songs?
Then we lose the song. :( Asside from the word changes, our choir did a breathtaking rendition, starting off slow and quiet and building to a crescendo. I don't even really mind the choir changing the words; I'm upset about the idea that we the congregation are expected to follow suit.


Buttercup said:
BTW....the "Blind" word mentioned in the song doesn't mean literal blindness, it's more like "deliberate spiritual ignorance". I wonder why the offended party is so touchy?
Well... I find it understandable that someone who is blind would be more senstive about such words than we who are not blind. It's not that I don't think he has a point at all. The issue would be a lot easier if I thought his complaint was completely without merit.
 

TeePee

Member
Language is imperfect communication!

UU hymns can be bland in the extreme maybe because the original sentiment, the passion, of the writer has been lost.

But if someone objects specifically like the non-smoker or the blind person it's a matter of balance where to draw the line depending on how important the recognition or change is to them I guess, and how accomodating others are able or willing to be.

Re the issue of disabilities I have a disabled brother and I myself am bipolar: to us no one need treat us any different than anyone else and that includes language. Disability and mental illness are just two of life's many challenges to learn to live with and part of living well is to overlook and balance out when things aren't perfect.

Sometimes we can take offence when it wasn't meant, and UUs do have a tendency to crusade which is a bit controlling in my humble opinion, this need to formalise everything and have a dogma!

A few years ago I went on holiday to Montserrat in the Caribbean, I was introduced to so many different people and writing up my diary at the end of the days and trying to describe people I was enthralled to realise I belong to that growing generation who does not notice people's ethnicity or disability or appearance so much as their enthusiasm and what they have to say or show me....I don't have to box people off and categorise them and treat them accordingly. I can be just a human alongside other humans.

Telling me 'this is how you should treat X' is just teaching me to put someone in another box and I don't want to!
 

jamaesi

To Save A Lamb
Re the issue of disabilities I have a disabled brother and I myself am bipolar: to us no one need treat us any different than anyone else and that includes language. Disability and mental illness are just two of life's many challenges to learn to live with and part of living well is to overlook and balance out when things aren't perfect.
A few years ago I went on holiday to Montserrat in the Caribbean, I was introduced to so many different people and writing up my diary at the end of the days and trying to describe people I was enthralled to realise I belong to that growing generation who does not notice people's ethnicity or disability or appearance so much as their enthusiasm and what they have to say or show me....I don't have to box people off and categorise them and treat them accordingly. I can be just a human alongside other humans.

Telling me 'this is how you should treat X' is just teaching me to put someone in another box and I don't want to!
I would agree except for what you call something effects how you think of it. When someone calls me "cripple" I know they don't really see me as equal to someone who doesn't need mobility aids. It's like how we call Agnes Bojaxhiu Mother Teresa. Were we to call her Hussy Tramp Teresa I am sure that would effect how we thought of her.

I also really don't see how "not seeing differences" is better than noticing them and loving and accepting people because of- not in spite of- our differences. To ignore differences is to ignore large parts of who we, and who others, are.
 

TeePee

Member
Ignore might be diminuishing, yes, but what if the differences don't matter or occur to the communication or connection between the people involved?

If I am enjoying someone's work or conversation or they have cute eyes why would I notice if they don't walk around or other superfluous matters?

I agree in the case of the woman who hates smoke and the guy who didn't want to sing about his impairment that's about them and the only way to respond is to recognise their discomfort- though when people have a high discomfort level it's often not much to do with the issue they are drawing attention to and more about- their high discomfort level!

When I was first diagnosed with bipolar I went through a long time of talking about it a lot and drawing attention to it, though I doubt if anyone would ever know unless I pointed it out.

I realise now that when I still had issues around who I was it mattered to have it acknowledged, and now I'm at peace with it, it really doesn't matter.

I don't expect other people to be perfect or to restrain cultural norms just in case I am offended. The words 'crazy' and 'nuts' used to bother me, now I wouldn't take them personally unless that's how they were meant.

It is rude and patronising to call you 'cripple', I guess my head-injured brother would be irritated by the label 'retard'...but why be offended by people's ignorance or stupidity? It really does say more about them than about me...

In the hymn context I think blind and crippled are metaphors from another less sensitive era in the same way as those missionary hymns about heathens or savages maybe...not politically correct but for example in Amazing Grace it's not meant in a mean-spirited way and the changed words from the start of the thread really are quite meaningless in comparison?

Calling Mother Theresa Hussy Tramp Teresa seems just rude somehow, though that might be linguistic, I am English and hussy is 'rough, course, lewd' in my language. I have heard her referred to as 'Saint of the Gutter' which I guess could be seen as somewhat patronising to people in poverty?
 
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