The Unforgivable Sin Contradiction

[Iymus]

How many unforgivable sins are there?

The root or origin of obedience is love.

Concerning sin or disobedience, that also has a root or origin.

Therefore I see no contradiction.

 

[stvdv]

Matthew 12:31:
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
Matthew 6:15:
But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

No contradiction at all. So no need to rationalize this contradiction. Just a little introspection.

 

[stvdv]

there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

All Christians I meet, seem to sin if that is true

we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins

First Christians try to hook you on "You are a sinner because all humans are sinners"
Next they need to forgive

Funny. First the Christian creates sin, and then he needs to forgive what he created. Probably their exercise to practise forgiving sin.

which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31.

I see no difference there

I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions

I can explain. So that would be the first time you see it?
I let you stay in your "virgin" state

 

[dianaiad]

There's no choice and none of us are responsible for it because we too are nature. No more or no less.

I need to clarify this position.

You are saying that we none of us have a choice as to whether we commit murder?

The obvious result of this is that there should be no punishment for it; that when someone murders someone else, that we should all simply shrug and say something like 'boys will be boys?"

We are not in any way in control of what we do?

 

[dianaiad]

Whaaaaaaa???. . . . . . Never mind.

Have a good day.

.

Does it help any if you knew that the "you" being used here is the general 'you,' not you personally....because English doesn't have a plural 'you?' To restate it in the more awkward method, I could have written:

That...would be between them and God, and not anybody else's problem, yes? Besides, it is not the job of any specific human that is required to punish or 'not forgive' anybody for 'blaspheming against the spirit." for one thing, how would one know?

Simply disagreeing with one's opinions regarding God wouldn't qualify as blaspheming the spirit, I don't think."

If I was too sloppy in my first rendition, I apologize. I hope I just cleared up what I was attempting to say, namely....it is not my job to 'forgive' someone for blaspheming against the Spirit, since neither I, nor anybody I love or know, is being harmed. It is God Who is being 'blasphemed against" (or rather, the Holy Spirit, depending upon the level of Trinitarianism one believes in). He's the only One Who COULD forgive that one; it would be the epitome of arrogance for any human to grab that authority.

So...does that make more sense?

 

[Skwim]

Does it help any if you knew that the "you" being used here is the general 'you,' not you personally....because English doesn't have a plural 'you?' To restate it in the more awkward method, I could have written:

That...would be between them and God, and not anybody else's problem, yes? Besides, it is not the job of any specific human that is required to punish or 'not forgive' anybody for 'blaspheming against the spirit." for one thing, how would one know?

Simply disagreeing with one's opinions regarding God wouldn't qualify as blaspheming the spirit, I don't think."

If I was too sloppy in my first rendition, I apologize. I hope I just cleared up what I was attempting to say, namely....it is not my job to 'forgive' someone for blaspheming against the Spirit, since neither I, nor anybody I love or know, is being harmed. It is God Who is being 'blasphemed against" (or rather, the Holy Spirit, depending upon the level of Trinitarianism one believes in). He's the only One Who COULD forgive that one; it would be the epitome of arrogance for any human to grab that authority.

So...does that make more sense?

Re. my "If you forgive others their sins every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven exceptin' for blasphemy again' the Spirit."

That...would be between them and God, and not anybody else's problem, yes?

Other than I didn't say it was anyone else's problem, I assume yes, and as I understand the issue, god's forgiveness is entirely his decision.

Besides, it is not the job of any specific human that is required to punish or 'not forgive' anybody for 'blaspheming against the spirit." for one thing, how would one know?

Okay, but what does this have to do with what I said?

Simply disagreeing with one's opinions regarding God wouldn't qualify as blaspheming the spirit, I don't think."

And again, okay, but what does this have to do with what I said?

If you want to bring up different issues I suggest you do it in a separate post.


.
.

 

[shmogie]

How many unforgivable sins are there? As we can see, according to Matthew 12:31, there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, in Matthew 6:15, we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins, which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31. This is a clear contradiction. I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions. They are rarely even discussed, but they are quite obvious:

Matthew 12:31:

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:15:

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

They say the same thing. Obviously, Matt 6:15 is a sin against the Spirit.

The Spirit is given by God to enlighten and convict of sin.

For a saved Christian any unrepented sin is blasphemy against the Spirit, if the believer is aware of the sin. An unrepented sin cannot be forgiven, it is an unforgivable sin.

In 6:15 a specific sin against the Spirit is noted.

 

[shmogie]

I am an atheist, but I can see the rationalizations coming. You could argue that not forgiving others sins is in fact a sin against the Holy Spirit.

Correct. No rationalization, simply proper exegesis.

 

[dianaiad]

Re. my "If you forgive others their sins every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven exceptin' for blasphemy again' the Spirit."


Other than I didn't say it was anyone else's problem, I assume yes, and as I understand the issue, god's forgiveness is entirely his decision.


Okay, but what does this have to do with what I said?

And again, okay, but what does this have to do with what I said?

If you want to bring up different issues I suggest you do it in a separate post.


.
.

It was an acknowledgement of what you said, and a further clarification that 'blasphemy against the Spirit" isn't a sin anybody ELSE could forgive one for, since such blasphemy wouldn't be harming one in any way. Sins against God (or the Holy Spirit) have nothing to do with what anybody else has done against one.

It was a comment about the arrogance of anybody figuring that THEIR forgiveness of 'blasphemy against the spirit" meant anything...as if they could figure out when such a sin had been committed anyway.

As to what you wrote, it COULD be interpreted that you meant that 'if you forgive others their sins," that THEY would be forgiven everything. I don't think that's what you meant, though. the point is, hmmmn....

It's like that parable of the evil landlord who begged forgiveness of someone he owed money to, and received it, but would not forgive the debts of the folks who owed money to him. If you aren't going to forgive others of harm they may do to you (general 'you' again) then you can't expect others to forgive you, and that includes God.

So that's what it had to do with what you wrote; agreement and expansion of the thought. Don't take offense where none is offered, skwim.

 

[Skwim]

It was an acknowledgement of what you said, and a further clarification that 'blasphemy against the Spirit" isn't a sin anybody ELSE could forgive one for, since such blasphemy wouldn't be harming one in any way. Sins against God (or the Holy Spirit) have nothing to do with what anybody else has done against one.

It was a comment about the arrogance of anybody figuring that THEIR forgiveness of 'blasphemy against the spirit" meant anything...as if they could figure out when such a sin had been committed anyway.

As to what you wrote, it COULD be interpreted that you meant that 'if you forgive others their sins," that THEY would be forgiven everything. I don't think that's what you meant, though. the point is, hmmmn....

It's like that parable of the evil landlord who begged forgiveness of someone he owed money to, and received it, but would not forgive the debts of the folks who owed money to him. If you aren't going to forgive others of harm they may do to you (general 'you' again) then you can't expect others to forgive you, and that includes God.

So that's what it had to do with what you wrote; agreement and expansion of the thought. Don't take offense where none is offered, skwim.

What offense was to be taken? Your post simply needed clarification.

.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

How many unforgivable sins are there? As we can see, according to Matthew 12:31, there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, in Matthew 6:15, we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins, which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31. This is a clear contradiction. I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions. They are rarely even discussed, but they are quite obvious:

Matthew 12:31:

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:15:

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

Why do I need to rationalize it. (Matt. 5-7) speaks to the laws of the future Kingdom. Not Church laws. But in the kingdom the one who is not forgiving others sins is not sinning. But it results in the Father not forgiving their sins. And much can be said about what forgiveness entails.

As for the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, that is a done deal. No forgiveness allowed. No repentance allowed. You can forgive others sins all you want. Doesn't matter. Nothing but judgement.

But I'm sure your happy with your 'contradiction'. So just pretend it's real if it helps.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[74x12]

How many unforgivable sins are there? As we can see, according to Matthew 12:31, there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, in Matthew 6:15, we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins, which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31. This is a clear contradiction. I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions. They are rarely even discussed, but they are quite obvious:

Matthew 12:31:

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:15:

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

There is no contradiction here. Not forgiving others is in itself a sin and so has to repented of to be forgiven.

 

[dianaiad]

What offense was to be taken? Your post simply needed clarification.

.

you took offense. Your response did not ask for clarification. Your first response was a very dismissive and insulting "Whaaaaaaa???. . . . . . Never mind.

Have a good day." I figured that hey, you were offended, and if I clarified what I meant, you wouldn't be offended any more...but "never mind. Have a good day" is not a request for clarification. It's "you are too stupid to answer a question, I'm leaving now."

To my response regarding that, you wrote, at the end:
Okay, but what does this have to do with what I said?....

.....
And again, okay, but what does this have to do with what I said?

If you want to bring up different issues I suggest you do it in a separate post."[/quote]

In other words, "go away and don't bother me, I'm offended and I don't want to bother with you."

As you can see, I have been nothing but extra polite in my attempt to explain what I meant. You were offended. At least, I hope so. I'd hate to think you would use that sort of rhetoric with someone you were happy with.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

How many unforgivable sins are there? As we can see, according to Matthew 12:31, there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, in Matthew 6:15, we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins, which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31. This is a clear contradiction. I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions. They are rarely even discussed, but they are quite obvious:

Matthew 12:31:

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:15:

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

I can do so by telling you to stop trying to seek out contradictions. These are the same sin.

Mark 12:30-31

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”

First, what does it mean to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

What is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? | GotQuestions.org

Jesus said this in the context of Pharisees telling others what God was/wasn't willing to do, by declaring that Jesus's actions were a result of an evil spirit. But there are other ways to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

"God should never forgive that person, and neither will I!"

"God will not be able to forgive me, my sin is too great."

Whether against God, other people, or the self, all of these are the same sin. The sin of believing that we can define for ourselves whether God extends his grace to others. If we declare God will not forgive our sins, we in effect have committed an unforgivable sin by defining grace as conditional.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

I can do so by telling you to stop trying to seek out contradictions. These are the same sin.

Mark 12:30-31



First, what does it mean to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit?

What is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? | GotQuestions.org

Jesus said this in the context of Pharisees telling others what God was/wasn't willing to do, by declaring that Jesus's actions were a result of an evil spirit. But there are other ways to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.

"God should never forgive that person, and neither will I!"

"God will not be able to forgive me, my sin is too great."

Whether against God, other people, or the self, all of these are the same sin. The sin of believing that we can define for ourselves whether God extends his grace to others. If we declare God will not forgive our sins, we in effect have committed an unforgivable sin by defining grace as conditional.

First of all, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing to satan the works of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 12:24-31). In the instance involving Christ it was the Pharisees seeing the miracles that Christ had done and, unable to deny them, instead attributed this miracle to satan. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Second of all, this doesn't necessarily involve one's salvation, eternal destiny. Forgiving sins was not what Christ was doing on the Cross. He was paying the penalty for sin. Because He paid the penalty for sin, He can forgive sins. But He doesn't have to. Concerning the Pharisees and the nation of Israel at this point in (Matt. 12), this attributing to satan the work of the Holy Spirit was unforgivable. The Phraisees and Israel now would receive nothing but judgement from God. It was a done deal. No repentance would be allowed. The Kingdom Christ offered would not come. Only judgement.

To apply this to a Christian of today or even a believer under the Old Covenant: We too can commit an unpardonable sin. Meaning, God will not hear us when we ask forgiveness. The sin will be punished in our life here.

Remember Moses. He smote the Rock when God told him to speak to the Rock. He sinned a sin God would not forgive him for. See (Num. 20:8-12). Moses later sought repentance for this sin and asked God to let him go over to the land. See (Deut. 3:23-27). But God refused. He would not forgive Moses for that sin. Did Moses go to Heaven? Of course. But he suffered a judgement from God for that sin here. That sin Moses sinned was 'unforgivable' to God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[PruePhillip]

I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

BIGGEST CONTRADICTION I SEE IS PEOPLE SAYING THE BIBLE
IS FALSE, YET SPEND THEIR LIFE OBSESSING OVER IT.

 

[Faithofchristian]

How many unforgivable sins are there? As we can see, according to Matthew 12:31, there is only one, namely, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. But, in Matthew 6:15, we see another unforgivable sin mentioned, namely, the failure to forgive others of their sins, which is clearly different from the unforgivable sin mentioned in Matthew 12:31. This is a clear contradiction. I have never seen a Christian even attempt to explain away these contradictions. They are rarely even discussed, but they are quite obvious:

Matthew 12:31:

And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 6:15:

But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

So, I'm curious. Christians, how do you attempt to rationalize this biblical contradiction?

First there is no Contradiction...
It's you taking things out of it's context..

First we see in Matthew 12:31..Jesus Christ plainly saying...
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men"

This particular unforgivable sin..is against the Holy Spirit of God...
He that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable...
Now the question is....when does this take place and by whom?

Now as for Matthew 6:15---"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses"

If you notice not one word from Jesus Christ calling this sin Blasphemy...
This sin is forgivable...unlike the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in not forgiven..
Here's the catch..If you forgiven men their trespasses then God will forgive you..
If you do not forgiven other's..then God the Father will not forgive you...

There's no where...Where Jesus Christ said it is not forgivable...but that it is forgivable..
You for give others..then God for gives you..
But the sin of Blasphemy there is no forgiveness neither in this world or the world to come..
But the sin against another is forgivable..
This is why in a Christian Prayers...we ask God to forgive our sins as we forgive those who trespasses against us.

 

[Faithofchristian]

First of all, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing to satan the works of the Holy Spirit. (Matt. 12:24-31). In the instance involving Christ it was the Pharisees seeing the miracles that Christ had done and, unable to deny them, instead attributed this miracle to satan. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Second of all, this doesn't necessarily involve one's salvation, eternal destiny. Forgiving sins was not what Christ was doing on the Cross. He was paying the penalty for sin. Because He paid the penalty for sin, He can forgive sins. But He doesn't have to. Concerning the Pharisees and the nation of Israel at this point in (Matt. 12), this attributing to satan the work of the Holy Spirit was unforgivable. The Phraisees and Israel now would receive nothing but judgement from God. It was a done deal. No repentance would be allowed. The Kingdom Christ offered would not come. Only judgement.

To apply this to a Christian of today or even a believer under the Old Covenant: We too can commit an unpardonable sin. Meaning, God will not hear us when we ask forgiveness. The sin will be punished in our life here.

Remember Moses. He smote the Rock when God told him to speak to the Rock. He sinned a sin God would not forgive him for. See (Num. 20:8-12). Moses later sought repentance for this sin and asked God to let him go over to the land. See (Deut. 3:23-27). But God refused. He would not forgive Moses for that sin. Did Moses go to Heaven? Of course. But he suffered a judgement from God for that sin here. That sin Moses sinned was 'unforgivable' to God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Can you give one book in the Bible where it's written that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing to the working of Satan..

Did you know that Jesus Christ foretold in the book of Mark 13..what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is..
And when it will happen..
And who are the ones that can commit it..

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Can you give one book in the Bible where it's written that the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is attributing to the working of Satan..

Did you know that Jesus Christ foretold in the book of Mark 13..what the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is..
And when it will happen..
And who are the ones that can commit it..

I believe I gave the reference. (Matt. 12:24-31)

I believe you mean (Mark 3:22-30)

These verses are pretty clear that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Faithofchristian]

I believe I gave the reference. (Matt. 12:24-31)

I believe you mean (Mark 3:22-30)

These verses are pretty clear that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to satan.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Did you not understand what I said...
I said the Lord Jesus Christ himself foretold what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is..
in the book of Mark 13.
And when it will happen
And who are the ones that can commit it..
It's all there in the book of Mark 13