The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[England my lionheart]

Now we can do some simple sums,did creation take 8 or 6 days,i don't think a calculator will be required Sura 41:9.10.12 adds up to 8 whereas 10:3 says 6 how does it add up to you.

[41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."*
[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.*
<A name=11>[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly." 41:12] Thus, He completed the seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every universe. And we adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and placed guards around it. Such is the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient.

10:3 Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind ?

 

[Bismillah]

Surah 86:7

To properly understand the wording of a verse in the light of proven science, one should take into consideration the literal meaning(s) of words in Arabic. Also, the context of the verse, in the light of preceding and following verses, together with the context of the whole chapter and the Quran at large should be considered.

Taking a word or a phrase out of context, quoting or misquoting uninformed or erratic outdated interpretations, or relying on conflicting or tampered English translations, would lead nowhere but to error end. Such practices and more tricks are typical of the writings of some missionaries, western Orientalists, secularists, and atheists, in their efforts to distort and hide the true Islam.

The linguistic and scientific interpretation of verse 7 of Surat At-Tariq which reads:
*{Going out between the loins (Or: backbone) and the ribs.}* could be viewed as follows.

The six verses (5-10) relating to the origin from which man is created had been subject to various interpretations before and after modern discoveries.

Ancient classic interpreters understood the term "from between the loin and ribs" to mean: "from between the man's loin and the woman's ribs", with no further detail. This description, due to their lack of modern knowledge, was not only ambiguous but also rather perplexing.

In the light of current knowledge, two authoritative interpretations of verse 7 have been put forward:

1. The most plausible interpretation, from the linguistic point of view, is that the pronoun referred to in the verse is 'man' and not the 'fluid'; as evidenced by the preceding verses (5 and 6), as well as those which follow, namely verses 8-10.

The verses most certainly refer to the full chain of events concerning the pronoun 'man', regarding his source of creation, his coming to life, and his return for Judgment in the Hereafter. The pronouns are highlighted as follows:

*{So let 'man' look into what 'he' was created from. 'He' was created from effusive water. Going out between the loins (Or: backbone) and the breastbones. Surely He (Allah) is indeed Determiner over 'his' return (to life). On the Day when secret thoughts and actions are tried. Then in no way will 'he' have any power or any vindicator.}* (At-Tariq 5-10)
If we could visualize the womb, we will realize that its upper pole touches the sternum (chest bones); and its lower pole and back touches the vertebral column and the bony pelvis. Therefore at birth, the babe issues forth from the space located between the chest and the pelvis. The pronoun in verse 7 should thus refer to the full baby at the moment of birth, and the verse should be understood to mean:

"He (man) issues forth at birth from the space between the bony pelvis and the breast-bone, the course that is normally negotiated."

2. An earlier interpretation used the emitted fluid as the unmentioned pronoun in the verse. In their opinion, verse 7 refers to is the embryonic stage when the primordial gonads are first formed.

Their analysis goes as follows: On impregnation of the female ovum by the male sperm, the product is a compound cell 'or zygote' (Arabic: notfah amshag, the precise term used in Quran Surat Al-Insan 76:2).

This compound cell begins to divide and re-divide as it travels in the Fallopian tube on its way to the womb. By this time, it will have become many cells surrounded by a wall forming a ball-like mass or cyst. These cells begin to acquire certain characteristics, each group having a certain function or duty to perform.

One of the first duties is to set aside a certain number of cells which will give rise to the next human generation. They segregate in the wall of the yolk sac which nourishes the embryo or babe in its very early stage. Then they assume an amoeboid form, and migrate towards the region to be known as the loin in the back of the developing or growing embryo.

The primordial gonads (testicles in males, and ovaries in females) form before the end of the second month of gestation, and are located in a position between the middle of the vertebra (loin region) and the breast bones (ribs).It is from these sex cells which emigrated from the front to the back that Allah brings forth the descendants or future generations.

Later, the testicles descend and enter the scrotum about eight weeks before birth, and the ovaries descend and enter the pelvis much earlier.As they descend, either testicles or ovaries are not detached from their original location.

Rather, both gonads on depend on supply from the same location: that is, blood supply from arteries branching from the aorta at the level of the kidneys, and nerves connected both to the aortic plexus and to the tenth inter-costal nerve originating from the spinal cord between the tenth and eleventh vertebrae.

Upon this basis, verse 7 could thus be understood to mean:

"Effusive water (sperms and ova) that goes out from (a source which, when primordial, occupies a position) between the loin (or backbone) and the breast-bones."

A corollary to this is that the pregnant mother, therefore, carries not only her child but a parent of her grandchild as well. The moment of fertilization, therefore, is the culmination and climax of events that have been pre-set in train twenty or more years previously. This is amazingly referred to in another verse:

*{And (remember) as your Lord took from the Seeds (Or. sons) of Adam, from their backs, their offspring, and made them bear witness concerning themselves, "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes indeed, we bear witness."}*(Al-A`raf 7:172)

Indeed it is wonderful that embryologists discovered that the testicles and ovaries originate between the backbones and ribs. But is it not more amazing to find the Quran, fourteen centuries ago, hinting in the above verse to what was described only recently by embryologists in the 1940's through their microscopic studies?
The verse definitely did not intend to state that the 'effusive water' comes or gushes out from between the backbones and the ribs; otherwise, it would have been very easy for anyone, even the early Arabs at the time, to put the verse into question.
The word (yakhruj), ('originating' or 'proceeding') &#8212; taking either of the two interpretations above &#8212; should be understood in the context of the whole chapter, which speaks of humans and how they were created and how their creation started and proceeded, and that they will be returned to account for their secret actions and deeds.

Thus 'yakhruj' refers to man's creation, which originated from the sperm formed in the testicles that proceeded from between the backbones and the ribs and finally born as a full baby.

In view of the plentiful authentic proofs of the scientific and intellectual precision of the Quran, and its inimitable divine style far beyond the knowledge and capability of the Prophet or any human at his time, if one finds difficulty in comprehending a word, phrase or verse, he or she should refer to authoritative Arabic sources or to honest English references derived thereof, rather than hectically swerve away from the wealth of clear-cut overwhelming evidence.

Reading Islam

 

[Bismillah]

Surah 23:13-14 (I think)

Third, in describing the further development of the embryo, the Qur'an states in Sura 23:13-14 that: "...We placed him as a drop of liquid (sperm) in a firm lodging (the womb). Then we fashioned the sperm (Nutfah) into something that clings (Alakah) which We fashioned into a chewed like lump (Modgha). The chewed like lump is fashioned into bones which are then covered with flesh...Then we developed it into another act of Creation. Blessed is God, the best to create."
The term "Alakah" in Arabic literally means something that clings or attaches to something else. This term refers to the blastula or ball-like structure of cells that forms about six days after fertilization and becomes implanted in the uterine wall. After the fourth week, the embryo actually looks like what in Arabic is termed "Modgha", a lump or flesh on which indentations that look like teeth marks are apparent, containing the basis for the development of the muscular and skeletal system. The Qur'an also correctly points out the sequence of the development stages: the developments of the bones first, followed by the soft tissues, muscles, and skin.


The Qur'anic Science of Human Creation


Though I think this site does a better job explaining the Surah
Answering False claims about izam' bone' formation

But I neither want to nor need to.

Ah, but then why spend time trying to find contradictions in the Qur'an? Are you not trying to understand a religion better and convince me that your PoV is correct?



Also who is to say I want to convince you

Kindly point out my supposed 'circular logic', and anywhere where I have used a holy book to validate my own religious views on something such as 'the first human was the same religion as me', or something similar.

The fallacy of petitio principii, or "begging the question", is committed "when a proposition which requires proof is assumed without proof." Begging the question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Your proposition that Adam wasn't the first Muslim is a proposition assumed without proof no? Whereas, my proposition that Adam was the first Muslim is assumed through the validity of the Qur'an.

Yep. However, it's far more difficult to disprove a deity than it is to disprove that children are born Muslim.

Ah, but are they not interrelated? If you disprove the Qur'an, for example, then you disprove everything within its contents, such as children being born Muslim. So it is all on an even playing field no?

If I'm honest, I'd be absolutely fine with that.
But then again, I believe in only one God - no matter what religion, I see all religions as attempts at following the Supreme Deity. Some having different interpretations.

Are you sure you're not Muslim xD

Yes in Islam but outside Islam which is the majority of the world population its no,is this claim a way of aquiring some legitimacy.

I you ask me for proof, but cannot find any evidence to the contrary is this not a useless debate?

 

[Aquitaine]

Now we can do some simple sums,did creation take 8 or 6 days,i don't think a calculator will be required Sura 41:9.10.12 adds up to 8 whereas 10:3 says 6 how does it add up to you.

[41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."*
[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.*
<A name=11>[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly." 41:12] Thus, He completed the seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every universe. And we adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and placed guards around it. Such is the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient.

10:3 Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind ?

He turned to the sky, when it was still Gas? What did it become then, afterwards?

Also, does that mean he created the sky (gas) before the Earth then?

Can any Muslim help verify this please?

 

[England my lionheart]

He turned to the sky, when it was still Gas? What did it become then, afterwards?

Also, does that mean he created the sky (gas) before the Earth then?

Can any Muslim help verify this please?

I also find these quite confusing

[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.*

All its inhabitants? what inhabitants?

<A name=11>[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

He says to the Earth and Sky that did'nt yet exist"to come into existence" then the Eath and Sky that did'nt exist said they come willingly this is much tougher than the Times Crossword

 

[Bismillah]

edit nevermind.

So what do you take the 7 universes to be?

 

[England my lionheart]

Yes it does,41: 9,10,11 and 12

 

[Aquitaine]

I also find these quite confusing

[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.*

All its inhabitants? what inhabitants?

<A name=11>[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

He says to the Earth and Sky that did'nt yet exist"to come into existence" then the Eath and Sky that did'nt exist said they come willingly this is much tougher than the Times Crossword

Another thing is why're the "Stabalizers" Mountains? Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't Mountains the result of plates that have collided and thrusted upwards? Also, arn't the areas around Mountains quite unstable?

 

[England my lionheart]

From my little knowledge of Mountains they are the result of tectonic plates hitting each other so yes i make you right

 

[England my lionheart]

edit nevermind.

So what do you take the 7 universes to be?

Well i have pondered this part perhaps you will enligten me

 

[Bismillah]

Yes it does,41: 9,10,11 and 12

Nevermind, I took it all as one lump.

Another thing is why're the "Stabalizers" Mountains? Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't Mountains the result of plates that have collided and thrusted upwards? Also, arn't the areas around Mountains quite unstable?

A lot of the websites that supply lists of supposed innacuries within the Qur'an come up with faulty or awkward translations.

I have found a website that not only explains this, but also of the supposed "8 Days".

41:9Say, &#8220;What! Do you deny Him Who has created the earth in Two Eras? And would you still ascribe rivals unto Him? He it is, the Sustainer of the Worlds.&#8221; [36:40, 79:30. Yaumayn = Two days = Two stages = Two Eras = Two Aeons = Indefinitely long periods]

41:10
And He it is Who placed therein firm mountains towering above it, and bestowed enduring Bliss upon it. And He measured therein its sustenance in Four Eras, alike for all who (invariably) need it.
[39:67, 56:63-73. Six Eras or Stages: 41:9 says &#8216;Two Eras&#8217;, 41:12 says &#8217;Two Eras&#8217;. Thus, according to the Qur&#8217;an, the creation of the heavens and the earth took place in Two Eras. The word Yaum here means a very long period. (A thousand years of your reckoning (32:5) or it may be fifty thousand years (70:4). In scientific terms, the period of creation of the material world is called &#8216;Azoic&#8217; or Lifeless. The Qur&#8217;an however, divides this period into two and calls it Two Eras. Modern scientific research throws some light on the division of Azoic Era into two: To begin with, the entire space was full of smoke (41:11). Smoke, as we know, is a mixture of gases and solid particles. Areas of condensation appeared later in this gas and the dust cloud, resulting in the formation of Prostars which further developed into stars. The stars further became divided into planets and other smaller heavenly bodies. The division of one complete whole of Smoke to Prostars is a great event. Thus we may call the period before the division of the whole Smoke as Era-I of the creation of the universe; and the period after this division until the appearance of life asEra-II. The Qur&#8217;an divides the time of creation after the appearance of life on the earth into Four Eras. Two plus Four makes &#8216;Six Eras&#8217; of evolution. 32:4]


The Seven layers of Universe struck me as Heaven. In Islam there are 7 layers to Heaven with each layer progressively more rewarding and requiring greater piety. It is said that the Prophet himself would be present in the 7th Heaven.

What I see it is confusion between Earth and the Universe.

also here is the website http://www.ourbeacon.com/?cat=55

 

[Gharib]

Now we can do some simple sums,did creation take 8 or 6 days,i don't think a calculator will be required Sura 41:9.10.12 adds up to 8 whereas 10:3 says 6 how does it add up to you.

[41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."*
[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.*
<A name=11>[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly." 41:12] Thus, He completed the seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every universe. And we adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and placed guards around it. Such is the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient.

10:3 Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind ?

6 days, have already proven this in the thread "proving the existence of Allah (swt) to an atheist" first few pages. i've been discussing it with rouge cardinal.

 

[England my lionheart]

I have read that interpretation,in each layer there is a Prophet like the Night Journey

 

[Bismillah]

I have read that interpretation,in each layer there is a Prophet like the Night Journey

Yes, that is what I gathered from 7 universes.

 

[Gharib]

I also find these quite confusing

[41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.*

All its inhabitants? what inhabitants?

humans and animals, who do you think are the inhabitans of the earth?

[41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

He says to the Earth and Sky that did'nt yet exist"to come into existence" then the Eath and Sky that did'nt exist said they come willingly this is much tougher than the Times Crossword

you've missunderstood. he created the earth and the heavens and told them to either come together willingly or unwillingly.

 

[Gharib]

Another thing is why're the "Stabalizers" Mountains? Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't Mountains the result of plates that have collided and thrusted upwards? Also, arn't the areas around Mountains quite unstable?

yes thats what scince says. that is correct.

 

[England my lionheart]

humans and animals, who do you think are the inhabitans of the earth?

But i thought Adam was the first Man




you've missunderstood. he created the earth and the heavens and told them to either come together willingly or unwillingly.

Yes but how can you tell something that does'nt exist to exist and then the non existant things to reply "we come willingly"

 

[Gharib]

Yes but how can you tell something that does'nt exist to exist and then the non existant things to reply "we come willingly"

they are existant. he created them, then asked the question.

 

[England my lionheart]

Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

"Come into existence",this implies that they were non existant how can they come into existence if they existed already

 

[Gharib]

Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

"Come into existence",this implies that they were non existant how can they come into existence if they existed already

i serioulsy think you've missinterpreted the verse. can you post it again with the chapter and verse number thanks.