The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Bismillah]

so there is no probability of not seeing allah unless his parents forces him become christian or jew.

Yet, you forget the devil and the fact that he leads believers astray.

 

[Gharib]

again circular logic, we were discussing about how first cristians and jews came to being, you say it occurred due to other cristians and living beings.

and i've already replied to this. they came to be by disbelieving.

such a situation as you assert does not exist. Adam (as) was the first human, he had no parent to teach him about anything. Allah taught him through his angel gabriel.

i'm expecting you to post that statement again.

 

[nameless]

and i've already replied to this. they came to be by disbelieving.

such a situation as you assert does not exist. Adam (as) was the first human, he had no parent to teach him about anything. Allah taught him through his angel gabriel.

i'm expecting you to post that statement again.

Yet, you forget the devil and the fact that he leads believers astray.

you both have different explanations for the same thing, cannot deal with you both at a time, you both must come to peace at first.

 

[Gharib]

you both have different explanations for the same thing, cannot deal with you both at a time, you both must come to peace at first.

nice try, go use that with someone else.

 

[nameless]

and i've already replied to this. they came to be by disbelieving.

see eselam, im tired of your circular logic, your scripture tells, there is no probability of disbelieving unless by the involvement of their parents who are disbeliever.

The Prophet Muhammad said, " It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

My question was how the first disbeliever came to being, you are using circular logic to answer that, the previous some 15 posts is proof for that.

'The Vortex beckons' in quran is proved.

 

[Bismillah]

you both have different explanations for the same thing, cannot deal with you both at a time, you both must come to peace at first.

How do we have different explanations? Does not the devil acomplish his goal by sowing discontentment and goading the disbelievers. Those who disbelieve and the devil's role in their disbelief are obviously linked. My previous posts allign with Eeslam's fine.

You have stated that there is no question of free will to change religions other then parental influence. Consider this statement and tell me it is not sheer folly. The subject at hand that you are addressing is a young child. Yes a child can be influenced by parents only, as he doesn't have the ability to think rationally. A grown man who rejects Islam on the other hand has the free will to do as he pleases. This is a basic fact of Islam, humans have the free will to commit to their own choices.

 

[England my lionheart]

What proof of a Devil is there,none,a Child is born with its inherited traits from its Parents Genes nothing more,apart from these traits it is a blank Canvas.

 

[Bismillah]

What proof of a Devil is there,none,a Child is born with its inherited traits from its Parents Genes nothing more,apart from these traits it is a blank Canvas.

Our discussion is based religous text, you cannot be arguing that there are contradictions in the Qur'an and when I prove otherwise revert to "well your religion is all wrong anyway look at science!" This thread isn't about whether my faith is the Qur'an is scientifically backed, I believe it is but you don't so there is nothing to gain from such a discussion, rather it is about you disproving my religion's scripture.

 

[Gharib]

see eselam, im tired of your circular logic, your scripture tells, there is no probability of disbelieving unless by the involvement of their parents who are disbeliever.

My question was how the first disbeliever came to being, you are using circular logic to answer that, the previous some 15 posts is proof for that.

'The Vortex beckons' in quran is proved.

since you are accusing me about the circular logic but are using it yourself.
a question to you, when did the first disbeliever come to be in hinduism?

and as for in islam, they become a disbeliever when their faith isn't strong and they go astray. so you end up with dog worshipers, rat worshipers, fire worshipers, jews, christians, worm worshipers, idol worshipers etc etc. the list goes on.

 

[England my lionheart]

Our discussion is based religous text, you cannot be arguing that there are contradictions in the Qur'an and when I prove otherwise revert to "well your religion is all wrong anyway look at science!" This thread isn't about whether my faith is the Qur'an is scientifically backed, I believe it is but you don't so there is nothing to gain from such a discussion, rather it is about you disproving my religion's scripture.

Wrong,its not about disproving anything,the Qur'an is a book of faith not facts,it was'nt written as a Book in any kind of order,as you surely know it was written over 23 years ish on bits of this and that,there were no punctuation marks etc so its not surprising it contains errors and thats why Uthman standardised it.
Muslim Scholars call them apparent errors,apologists call them bad interpretations or translations,the purpose of this thread is to examine the claim that the Qur'an is indeed perfect and without error and all the scientific claimed miracles,if it does contain contradictions so what,the Books of the Bible contains errors but there are still Christians because its about faith not facts.

 

[YmirGF]

Wrong,its not about disproving anything,the Qur'an is a book of faith not facts,it was'nt written as a Book in any kind of order,as you surely know it was written over 23 years ish on bits of this and that,there were no punctuation marks etc so its not surprising it contains errors and thats why Uthman standardised it.
Muslim Scholars call them apparent errors,apologists call them bad interpretations or translations,the purpose of this thread is to examine the claim that the Qur'an is indeed perfect and without error and all the scientific claimed miracles,if it does contain contradictions so what,the Books of the Bible contains errors but there are still Christians because its about faith not facts.

I think you make a valid point, England. The problem is that Muslims have backed themselves into a corner that they cannot escape from. They openly and hotly claim there their beloved book contains no errors and yet it takes them pages and pages to explain why those errors are not, in fact, errors. It does tend to stretch credulity.

 

[Aquitaine]

Can any Muslims here inform me on one of these "Scientific Miracles" in the Koran? Post some, and then we can analyse.

But don't just send me to that "Miracles of the Koran" site by Harun Yahya, that site is full of nothing but none-sense that was written by a guy who is in jail right now.

 

[nameless]

How do we have different explanations? Does not the devil acomplish his goal by sowing discontentment and goading the disbelievers. Those who disbelieve and the devil's role in their disbelief are obviously linked. My previous posts allign with Eeslam's fine.

devil? now from where devil came? it is understandable you introducing devils and satans when you are out of words. Also your prophet too did not say anything regarding that. Simply rejecting your statement.

 

[YmirGF]

devil? now from where devil came? it is understandable you introducing devils and satans when you are out of words. Also your prophet too did not say anything regarding that. Simply rejecting your statement.

Think "fire and brimstone" Christian fundamentalists, put them on steroids... and you end up with the equivalent of a "moderate" Muslim.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think you make a valid point, England. The problem is that Muslims have backed themselves into a corner that they cannot escape from. They openly and hotly claim there their beloved book contains no errors and yet it takes them pages and pages to explain why those errors are not, in fact, errors. It does tend to stretch credulity.

I think most Muslims would avoid threads such as this for that very reason

 

[YmirGF]

I think most Muslims would avoid threads such as this for that very reason

And that would be why some of them prefer to answer questions from within the safety of the Islam DIR foxhole, so that no one can question them too hard.

 

[England my lionheart]

Shame really,but understandable,so called Muslim Scholars have done so much harm by presenting the Qur'an as a book of Scientific Miracles or a book that is perfect with no errors,the first thing i did when i read these claims was to see if it was true so all they have achieved by such claims is draw criticism and ridicule.

 

[Irjustlooking]

Or maybe it has to do with muslims being tired explaining the same thing over and over, and even if they did it still won't be satisfactory for you.

I mean some people see this verse as contradicting, saying stuff like its the DNA inheritance that shapes us.

"He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [2:6]"

 

[Aquitaine]

Or maybe it has to do with muslims being tired explaining the same thing over and over, and even if they did it still won't be satisfactory for you.

I mean some people see this verse as contradicting, saying stuff like its the DNA inheritance that shapes us.

"He it is Who shapes you in the wombs as He pleases. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [2:6]"

Most of the verses that're claimd to be Scientific Miracles are just too damn vague, and ambiguous to be given any scientific merit. Like that oen verse about seeing people "not protected from the sun" apparently is referring accurately to the O-zone layer.

I know, it's none-sense but hey, some people believe all that stuff

 

[Bismillah]

Wrong,its not about disproving anything,the Qur'an is a book of faith not facts,it was'nt written as a Book in any kind of order,as you surely know it was written over 23 years ish on bits of this and that,there were no punctuation marks etc so its not surprising it contains errors and thats why Uthman standardised it.
Muslim Scholars call them apparent errors,apologists call them bad interpretations or translations,the purpose of this thread is to examine the claim that the Qur'an is indeed perfect and without error and all the scientific claimed miracles,if it does contain contradictions so what,the Books of the Bible contains errors but there are still Christians because its about faith not facts.

No, nameless is arguing about the Hadith and Surahs. She takes them to be true for the purposes of this discussion. Claiming that God nor the Devil do not exist doesn't contribute anything to this statement, as the subject on hand is whether this Surah and Hadith do contradict. Yet all your apparent contradictions have been refuted. As to why it matters, Muslims view the Qur'an as the word of God. Thus it is a book of facts, but from your PoV it is a book of faiths. The only thing you have to do to prove your point is to prove that a verse from the Qur'an is contradictory.

They openly and hotly claim there their beloved book contains no errors and yet it takes them pages and pages to explain why those errors are not, in fact, errors. It does tend to stretch credulity.

If a Calculus problem takes you three sheets of paper to solve does it also stretch the credulity?

devil?

now from where devil came? it is understandable you introducing devils and satans when you are out of words. Also your prophet too did not say anything regarding that. Simply rejecting your statement.

Are you serious in asking me where the Devil comes from? Maybe you need to go brush up on some basic beliefs. Eeslam says that the first Non-believers committed Shirk by disbelieving. Islam says that the Devil is responsible for the disbelievers and the doubters. My Prophet did not say that? Are you again asking me such a basic question as to whether Prophet Muhammad did not discuss the Devil? Well, look at what you have been copying pasting for the past few days:

The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray".

The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?"

(Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).

This Hadith is taking about a child born, a newborn. It is not refrencing everyone, just children in particular, hence the context of this Hadith is a new born influenced by his parents. Muslims have the ability to think consciously, but no Human can think consciously or rationally at such a you age. Then the only way that a child can turn away from Allah, logically, is through influence from his parents. When a person is old enough to think for himself, then he can turn away from Islam without the need of parental influence. These two statements not only do not contradict each other they flow logically from the first to the next.