The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[YmirGF]

If a Calculus problem takes you three sheets of paper to solve does it also stretch the credulity.

Of course not, as Calculus equation is not an opinion. There is no interpretation involved. Your comparison is therefore very weak, nay, 'tis ludicrous.

 

[nameless]

No, nameless is arguing about the Hadith and Surahs. She takes them to be true for the purposes of this discussion. Claiming that God nor the Devil do not exist doesn't contribute anything to this statement, as the subject on hand is whether this Surah and Hadith do contradict. Yet all your apparent contradictions have been refuted. As to why it matters, Muslims view the Qur'an as the word of God. Thus it is a book of facts, but from your PoV it is a book of faiths. The only thing you have to do to prove your point is to prove that a verse from the Qur'an is contradictory.

If a Calculus problem takes you three sheets of paper to solve does it also stretch the credulity?

Are you serious in asking me where the Devil comes from? Maybe you need to go brush up on some basic beliefs. Eeslam says that the first Non-believers committed Shirk by disbelieving. Islam says that the Devil is responsible for the disbelievers and the doubters. My Prophet did not say that? Are you again asking me such a basic question as to whether Prophet Muhammad did not discuss the Devil? Well, look at what you have been copying pasting for the past few days:



This Hadith is taking about a child born, a newborn. It is not refrencing everyone, just children in particular, hence the context of this Hadith is a new born influenced by his parents. Muslims have the ability to think consciously, but no Human can think consciously or rationally at such a you age. Then the only way that a child can turn away from Allah, logically, is through influence from his parents. When a person is old enough to think for himself, then he can turn away from Islam without the need of parental influence. These two statements not only do not contradict each other they flow logically from the first to the next.

If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.

The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
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So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion. (By Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips )

"I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray"
god can create servants only as child, so in both cases they are talking about child.

"I created my servants(child) in the right religion but devils made them go astray"
"Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian"
see, from this it is clear that the devils are referred to christian or jew or other faith parents.

 

[Bismillah]

Of course not, as Calculus equation is not an opinion. There is no interpretation involved. Your comparison is therefore very weak, nay, 'tis ludicrous.

How is it that longer responses strain credibility? A longer response is needed to use the accepted translation, provide for the context of the passage etc. etc.The longer the response is, the more developed the argument is likely to be.

 

[Bismillah]

Now, that you understand "where the devil comes from" this can be resolved.

god can create servants only as child, so in both cases they are talking about child.

Are they talking about a child? How can you say? Do you realize when the Devil leads people astray, it is out of the mistakes of those who disbelieve, the Devil cannot force you to do anything. So again, where have you seen a human at such a young age consciously separate themself from Islam? Answer, it doesn't happen. When a child turns away from Islam it is due to impressionable individuals that influence him. A child cannot argue whether religion is right or wrong. Thus in this hypothetical the child would clearly be influenced by his parents. However, if that same child was not impressed religion, but two decades later chose, for example, Christianity then the Devil clearly had a hand in his thought process.

"I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray"
"Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian"
see, from this it is clear that the devils are referred to christian or jew or other faith parents.

Devil is singular, not plural. Muslims only believe that there is one Shaitan. As I have said numerous times those who changed faith were influenced by the Devil, such as the Non-believing parents. They are not devils themselves. So yes, one could argue it is the Devil who directly or indirectly leads people astray. Like I said.

 

[Gharib]

nameless, you've missed post 489.

 

[Gharib]

i'ts nice how every non muslim says there are contradictions and errors in the quran but can't seem to prove anything.

we've gone through 50 pages and still nothing.

if there was a contradiction (which is actually there rather than imagining things) then surely, it would be impossible for any muslim to have proof against it.

whats also nice is that we've gone through a number of so called "contradictions" and no one said "OK there is no contradiction concerning this, lets move on". nope no one even has the guts to accept anything from muslim. i wouldn't be too surprised if someone said "nope, you haven't provided enough evidence to prove there is no contradiction." and it's always the muslims that get blamed, just like always the same in this thread, just go through pages 49, 50 and 51.

i feel sorry for most of you. it really is a shame.

 

[nameless]

since you are accusing me about the circular logic but are using it yourself.
a question to you, when did the first disbeliever come to be in hinduism?

i dont know, you know? BTW you are missing a lot of my posts too.

 

[Gharib]

i dont know, you know?

like i said, i feel sorry for most of you. (don't mean it as a personal thing)

 

[nameless]

like i said, i feel sorry for most of you. (don't mean it as a personal thing)

lol, it is nice to see you getting a bit relief after getting enough from all corners. BTW, is it raining there eselam?

 

[Bismillah]

Nameless, would you care to tell me now how your assumption that the Qur'an and Hadith contradicted or can we move on?

 

[Gharib]

lol, seeing your threads everyone would feel sympathy towards you.

thanks i didn't know that.

 

[nameless]

i'ts nice how every non muslim says there are contradictions and errors in the quran but can't seem to prove anything.

already proved that the god mentioned in quran is evil,immoral and egoistic. see post see post 201 and 205.

 

[Gharib]

already proved that the god mentioned in quran is evil,stupid and egoistic. see post see post 201 and 205.

really, you proved that. all by yourself? i'm amazed so much that i will take a look at those posts.

 

[Gharib]

is it moral to send him to hell and give more punishment?

hell is a punishment, for the rejectors/disbelievers. what more punishment could you be asking for?

allah punished him by creating him disabled, in return he cursed him, what is wrong in that?

how do you know that those who are created disabled are being punished by Allah?

It is natural to feel bad about the guy who punishes us for no reason, does that deserves more punishment?

i'd like to see proof that says "all those who are disabled are being punished by Allah."

please show that to me otherwise don't speak about Allah that wich you don't know.

 

[nameless]

hell is a punishment, for the rejectors/disbelievers. what more punishment could you be asking for?



how do you know that those who are created disabled are being punished by Allah?



i'd like to see proof that says "all those who are disabled are being punished by Allah."

please show that to me otherwise don't speak about Allah that wich you don't know.

already finished proving that thing, go through the earlier posts, i dont want to repeat my previous posts, even jamal_a_man accepted and you too did not made any reply seeing those at that time.

 

[Bismillah]

is it moral to send him to hell and give more punishment?
allah punished him by creating him disabled, in return he cursed him, what is wrong in that?
It is natural to feel bad about the guy who punishes us for no reason, does that deserves more punishment?

If someone is disabled, then strictly from an economical PoV they are better off believing in Islam. Believing that they will be more generously rewarded then the healthy for their struggles and faith. Even a disabled person can be thankful. Instead of losing just his hand it could be his arm, or his ability to control his body, or even his cognitive abilities.

how they are benefited from allah? does allah throw food and cash from sky to them? the disabled people get rid each day working so hard, what is the wrong in cursing allah for making their life so miserable?

Do they not have a working mind? Is that something that you should take for granted? Are they not shown mercy and compassion by Allah on the Day of Judgment, for he holds greater compassion for these who encounter greater obstacles? The disabled among us have also been some of the strongest believers.It was Allah's commandment to take care of those who are less privileged in society, including those with disabilities. In a time when disabled people were being killed and persecuted for something out of their control, Allah dictated that we provide them with kindness and compassion. So yes, in a sense disabled people are being thrown "cash from the sky". They are protected and considered important parts of the Muslim Ummah and it is the collective responsibility of every healthy Muslim to ensure that this is done so.

 

[Fatihah]

And that would be why some of them prefer to answer questions from within the safety of the Islam DIR foxhole, so that no one can question them too hard.

Response: Or because they don't see any logic behind having a dialogue with those who are closed minded. You see, while you or other non-muslims here like to debate for the fun of it, we as muslims do not. Are job is to deliver the message, then let you decide for yourselves. Continuing in an ongoing debate that leads no where is not what many muslims find worth participating in. Trust me, no one's hiding from any question.

 

[Gharib]

how they are benefited from allah?

those who are disabled have less duties in this world and a greater rewad in paradise for not being able to do as much good as they possibly could, due to them being disabled.

does allah throw food and cash from sky to them?

does your god throw food and cash to the homeless and diabled hes created, if he even exists?

the disabled people get rid each day working so hard, what is the wrong in cursing allah for making their life so miserable?

the disabled that are born in a muslim family are not required to do any work unless they themself want to be occupied by something. it is no ones fault that the non muslims who are well don't take care of the dissadvantaged in their community.

 

[Gharib]

already finished proving that thing, go through the earlier posts, i dont want to repeat my previous posts, even jamal_a_man accepted and you too did not made any reply seeing those at that time.

they were never directed at me. but now that i've answered them, you don't seem to like it one bit. i knew you never wrote them all by yourself. cos if you did you would be able to asnwer them. good try though.

 

[Fatihah]

Most of the verses that're claimd to be Scientific Miracles are just too damn vague, and ambiguous to be given any scientific merit. Like that oen verse about seeing people "not protected from the sun" apparently is referring accurately to the O-zone layer.

I know, it's none-sense but hey, some people believe all that stuff

Response: What's even more interesting is to watch someone like yourself spend so much time criticizing the qur'an, yet never wishes to shed light on their own beliefs. I know the reason why. It's very easy to to always pick fun of other religions. But it's not so fun when the tables are turned is it? But I do understand. If I myself believed what you believed, I wouldn't want to share it as well. After all, it's hard to defend irrationality.