The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

you are the one who is justifying quran, so it is your duty to prove devils are not referred to parents, till then it remains devils are referred to parents.

Response: Likewise, you are defending your logic as correct. So you must also prove that devils are referred to parents in the qur'an.

 

[nameless]

so claiming that he doesn't know the whole quran is a mistake in your eyes.

open your eyes with fingers and read this

I am human so it is natural that I will mistakes.

It is your brother who told he did mistake.

 

[Gharib]

open your eyes with fingers and read this

It is your brother who told he did mistake.

to the contrary. he never said he made a mistake, he is saying it is human to make a mistake. see you are wanting a statement to say what you want, rather that what it actually says.

 

[nameless]

Response: Likewise, you are defending your logic as correct. So you must also prove that devils are referred to parents in the qur'an.

you are too late here, go through the previous posts before posting.

 

[nameless]

to the contrary. he never said he made a mistake, he is saying it is human to make a mistake. see you are wanting a statement to say what you want, rather that what it actually says.

your brother justifying his mistake saying that every human can make mistake.
YmirGF is 100% correct, im talking to a ............

 

[Gharib]

you are too late here, go through the previous posts.

so first abibi doesn't know what he's talking about according to you, now fatihah must not post cos he is 'too late'.

am i too early? i can come back later. oh but then i'll be too late.

 

[Gharib]

your brother justifying his mistake saying that every human can make mistake.
YmirGF is 100% correct, im talking to a ............

to yourself? yeah i can see that.

i can also see that you are imagining things, YmirGF isn't around. please close your eyes when dreaming, it makes you look better.

 

[Gharib]

your brother justifying his mistake saying that every human can make mistake.

his statement does say that. show me where it says "i made a mistake, it is human to make a mistake".

 

[Fatihah]

you are too late here, go through the previous posts.

Response: Proof has no time limit. You were wrong in the previous posts and you are wrong now.

 

[nameless]

so first abibi doesn't know what he's talking about according to you, now fatihah must not post cos he is 'too late'.

am i too early? i can come back later. oh but then i'll be too late.

yes again and you are proving that,

i already provided enough proof for devils are referred to parents.
Fatihah did not see all that asking me for the same proof, so i asked him do so.

 

[Gharib]

yes again and you are proving that,

i already provided enough proof for devils are referred to parents.
Fatihah did not see all that asking me for the same proof, so i asked him do so.

you've provided proof?

you've only tried to change the verse in saying what isn't there. show me this proof of yours again. where did you post it.

 

[nameless]

Response: Proof has no time limit. You were wrong in the previous posts and you are wrong now.

abibi argued devils are not be referred to parents as devils are singular.
i proved to them devils are plural and abibi and eselam accepted that.
So it is proved that devils refers to parents.
Again abibi is asking me for the verses explaining that
but it is their turn to prove devils are not parents by showing verses.

 

[Fatihah]

yes again and you are proving that,

i already provided enough proof for devils are referred to parents.
Fatihah did not see all that asking me for the same proof, so i asked him do so.

Response: And exactly how do you know what I didn't see? Nonetheless, I know the qur'an from beginning to end. It clearly doesn't say what you claim. So any alleged evidence or proof otherwise isn't proof at all.

 

[nameless]

Response: And exactly how do you know what I didn't see? Nonetheless, I know the qur'an from beginning to end. It clearly doesn't say what you claim. So any alleged evidence or proof otherwise isn't proof at all.

read posts 504 and 522

 

[Fatihah]

abibi argued devils are not referred to parents as devils are singular.
i proved to them devils are plural and abibi and eselam accepted that.
So it is proved that devils refers to parents.
Again abibi is asking me for the verses explaining that
but it is their turn to prove devils are not parents by showing verses.

Response: "Devils" and "parents" are not synonymous in any way. So the verse clearly doesn't mean that. The proof is clear.

 

[nameless]

Response: "Devils" and "parents" are not synonymous in any way. So the verse clearly doesn't mean that. The proof is clear.

the parents themselves are disbelievers and make their children disbelievers, so they are called devils.

 

[YmirGF]

How is it that longer responses strain credibility? A longer response is needed to use the accepted translation, provide for the context of the passage etc. etc.The longer the response is, the more developed the argument is likely to be.

What accepted translation? There are many "accepted" English translations, my friend. When I am investigating a point in the Qur'an, I normally utilize 16 translations simultaneously, that also provides the transliterations of the original Arabic. Utlizing so many translations gives a far clearer view of what is really being talked about in the text and I am not at the mercy of any individual translator's agenda.

To be perfectly honest, it is child's play to take any given translation and use it as your proof text, as a gold standard, if you will. The reality is that most of the passages of the Qur'an have been translated in numerous ways over the years, so one cannot point to a single translation and say it is the "accepted translation".


As to the windy Muslim replies, the sad fact is that most replies rely on circular reasoning and so are very difficult to critique. When pressed Muslims, if they are feeling generous, may admit it is all a matter of faith, whereas others may claim the reader is simply in denial for not accepting the answers that are given.

Likewise, I began this thread with a very clear contradiction between the Qur'an and widely accepted events in the life of your prophet. I do understand that the ahadith are not on the same level as the Qur'an, however, it does occupy the 2nd place in Muslim thinking. The thing is, non-Muslims point out errors and contradictions, which Muslims then trip over themselves to explain, at length, why those contradictions are not actually contradictory. These answers seldom impress the non-Muslim greatly, unless of course, said non-Muslim knows very little about Islam to begin with.

At the end of the discussion, when both parties are exhausted from playing mental and verbal gymnastics, we simply choose to disagree. Sadly though, a draw is not exactly what I would expect in such conversations. In theory, Muslims have the word of God on their side, so the debates should ALWAYS land in the Muslim's favor. But the reality is, that all we ever get are stalemates, followed by ad hominem barrages.

Doesn't that fact, alone, make you question the validity of your arguments? In my view, if Muslim positions actually had merit these discussions would be over very, very quickly and we would all sit back and wonder what just hit us. Instead, we are left blinking at what we are reading, trying to find the sense in it.

 

[Fatihah]

the parents themselves are disbelievers and make their children disbelievers, so they are called devils.

Response: There's the statement? Where's the proof?

 

[Fatihah]

What accepted translation? There are many "accepted" English translations, my friend. When I am investigating a point in the Qur'an, I normally utilize 16 translations simultaneously, that also provides the transliterations of the original Arabic. Utlizing so many translations gives a far clearer view of what is really being talked about in the text and I am not at the mercy of any individual translator's agenda.

To be perfectly honest, it is child's play to take any given translation and use it as your proof text, as a gold standard, if you will. The reality is that most of the passages of the Qur'an have been translated in numerous ways over the years, so one cannot point to a single translation and say it is the "accepted translation".


As to the windy Muslim replies, the sad fact is that most replies rely on circular reasoning and so are very difficult to critique. When pressed Muslims, if they are feeling generous, may admit it is all a matter of faith, whereas others may claim the reader is simply in denial for not accepting the answers that are given.

Likewise, I began this thread with a very clear contradiction between the Qur'an and widely accepted events in the life of your prophet. I do understand that the ahadith are not on the same level as the Qur'an, however, it does occupy the 2nd place in Muslim thinking. The thing is, non-Muslims point out errors and contradictions, which Muslims then trip over themselves to explain, at length, why those contradictions are not actually contradictory. These answers seldom impress the non-Muslim greatly, unless of course, said non-Muslim knows very little about Islam to begin with.

At the end of the discussion, when both parties are exhausted from playing mental and verbal gymnastics, we simply choose to disagree. Sadly though, a draw is not exactly what I would expect in such conversations. In theory, Muslims have the word of God on their side, so the debates should ALWAYS land in the Muslim's favor. But the reality is, that all we ever get are stalemates, followed by ad hominem barrages.

Doesn't that fact, alone, make you question the validity of your arguments? In my view, if Muslim positions actually had merit these discussions would be over very, very quickly and we would all sit back and wonder what just hit us. Instead, we are left blinking at what we are reading, trying to find the sense in it.

Response: To the contrary, your own responses show that even you agree with the muslims. You just simply have a hard time acknowledging it.

 

[YmirGF]

Response: Or because they don't see any logic behind having a dialogue with those who are closed minded. You see, while you or other non-muslims here like to debate for the fun of it, we as muslims do not. Are job is to deliver the message, then let you decide for yourselves. Continuing in an ongoing debate that leads no where is not what many muslims find worth participating in. Trust me, no one's hiding from any question.

But the problem is that you don't deliver that message very well. THAT is why these discussions go on and on and on.... If you were better at this, we would all be in awe of your brilliant answers.

Edit: I sincerely don't mean that in a mean or malicious way either, Fatihah.

I sincerely mean it.

If you were better at delivering your message you would find us to be an eager audience. Instead... we get this "classic" Fatihah...

Response: To the contrary, your own responses show that even you agree with the muslims. You just simply have a hard time acknowledging it.