The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Commoner]

no it would be a change, never to look at men the same way as before.

But you argued that "gays preffer to have sex with men rather than try and change back". But surely there have been those that have tried and failed? I mean, I find it hard to imagine that I could convince myself not to like ice cream anymore.
Clearly it's not a "just try it and you'll see that you'll like it" type of situation.

 

[Gharib]

Response: Yet, when that lust supercedes their lust for the opposite sex, then the person is no longer a heterosexual lusting for the same sex, but a homosexual.

exactly how it is. thats why some men create families with a woman, but once their lust for men starts to increase they eventually become homosexual.

 

[Fatihah]

exactly how it is. thats why some men create families with a woman, but once their lust for men starts to increase they eventually become homosexual.

Response: Exactly. Hence the term, "coming out of the closet".

 

[Commoner]

you aren't, but i am. and just like i said, a grown heterosexual cannot become gay. you are proof.

where as a homosexual can become heterosexual. does that make sense now, cos it didn't just a few posts before.

I am only proof that I don't think I could become gay, not that that's actaully true. And what is proof of the opposite - that a homosexual can become heterosexual.

If you say that I shouldn't be fooled by homosexuals that have turned gay after living as straight men, how do you know the opposite is not true as well - that those who have rejected their homosexuality are not fooling you as well?

No, it still doesn't make sense.

 

[Gharib]

But you argued that "gays preffer to have sex with men rather than try and change back".

yes they do kind of preffer that. they say homosexuality is natural. it's probably not so much that they deliberately like man but you could kind of say that.

But surely there have been those that have tried and failed?

well what good would it do to someone who has the pig flu and takes an aspirin to cure him?

if you don't know what the cure is, you can take all the pills in the world and it will not cure you.

I mean, I find it hard to imagine that I could convince myself not to like ice cream anymore.

we're not talking about ice cream. please don't use these kinds of examples. homosexuality has to do with the brain (something you can't control), not with ice cream.

Clearly it's not a "just try it and you'll see that you'll like it" type of situation.

no it's not. i never said that. it's harder to get the cure to work than to become sick.

 

[Gharib]

I am only proof that I don't think I could become gay, not that that's actaully true. And what is proof of the opposite - that a homosexual can become heterosexual.

well i don't know any gays that have become heterosexual, but i can prove it. i just need the right candidate who is willing to do it.

If you say that I shouldn't be fooled by homosexuals that have turned gay after living as straight men, how do you know the opposite is not true as well - that those who have rejected their homosexuality are not fooling you as well?

what do you mean fooled by those who have rejected their homosexuality?

No, it still doesn't make sense.

we still have a bit more to go.

 

[Commoner]

we're not talking about ice cream. please don't use these kinds of examples. homosexuality has to do with the brain (something you can't control), not with ice cream.

I don't see what you find unsuitable about my ice-cream example. Liking the same sex is a preference - just like liking ice cream. Our actions are a result of our preferences - if you like ice cream, you eat it.

While we can certainly decide not to eat ice cream anymore (not to have homosexual relationships), I don't think we can decide not to like it anymore.

 

[Gharib]

I don't see what you find unsuitable about my ice-cream example. Liking the same sex is a preference - just like liking ice cream. Our actions are a result of our preferences - if you like ice cream, you eat it.

While we can certainly decide not to eat ice cream anymore (not to have homosexual relationships), I don't think we can decide not to like it anymore.

told you not to use the ice cream. if you do continue to use it then you will be in denial concerning homsexuals changing to heterosexuals and forgetting about having sex with other men.

wanting to have sex with someone of the same sex isn't a preference. it's got to do with the brain. the brain has been affected so there isn't really much of a choice to like men, since your brain is telling you to like them. not the other way around.

 

[Commoner]

well i don't know any gays that have become heterosexual, but i can prove it. i just need the right candidate who is willing to do it.

So, you actually know of no instance that a choice has actually been made, yet you still claim homosexuality is a choice, because you have an untested hypothesis. Now that's just silly.

what do you mean fooled by those who have rejected their homosexuality?

That the men and women who would choose to change to being heterosexual form being homosexual, were in fact heterosexual all the time. Just as you claim those who have changed to homosexual were actually never heterosexual. You would have no way of knowing, would you? So even if you "cure a homosexual" with your as of yet untested method, you would not be able to establish if they were not fooling you all along and have always been heterosexual.

we still have a bit more to go.

I think we're actually going in opposite directions.

 

[Commoner]

told you not to use the ice cream. if you do continue to use it then you will be in denial concerning homsexuals changing to heterosexuals and forgetting about having sex with other men.

wanting to have sex with someone of the same sex isn't a preference. it's got to do with the brain. the brain has been affected so there isn't really much of a choice to like men, since your brain is telling you to like them. not the other way around.

I am my brain, there is no distinction between the two.

 

[Gharib]

So, you actually know of no instance that a choice has actually been made, yet you still claim homosexuality is a choice, because you have an untested hypothesis. Now that's just silly.

no you missunderstood. i don't know anyone personally who has changed from gay to straight. i have heard of this happen but have not witnessed it personally. i gave links about homosexuals becoming heterosexual in the other thread.

That the men and women who would choose to change to being heterosexual form being homosexual, were in fact heterosexual all the time. Just as you claim those who have changed to homosexual were actually never heterosexual. You would have no way of knowing, would you? So even if you "cure a homosexual" with your as of yet untested method, you would not be able to establish if they were not fooling you all along and have always been heterosexual.

really? well how would you explain sex with the same sex? or is that just a trick?
if you have sex with another male you are gay. otherwise you would never do it. you said it yourself.

I think we're actually going in opposite directions.

no you're just one train behind me, you need to catch up, i'll slow down.

 

[Gharib]

I am my brain, there is no distinction between the two.

really?

well how come some people have voices in their head? they should be able to contorl thier brain not to do that, shoudln't they? you only contorl a fraction of your brain. remember a human uses only 10% oh his brain. i blieve einstein has said that.

 

[Commoner]

really? well how would you explain sex with the same sex? or is that just a trick?
if you have sex with another male you are gay. otherwise you would never do it. you said it yourself.

Really? Well how would you explain sex with the opposite sex? Or is that just a trick? If you have sex with a woman you are heterosexual. Otherwise you'd never do it.

Point out the distinction, please.

 

[Commoner]

really?

well how come some people have voices in their head? they should be able to contorl thier brain not to do that, shoudln't they? you only contorl a fraction of your brain. remember a human uses only 10% oh his brain. i blieve einstein has said that.

I am my brain. I do not control my brain nor does it control me. When my brain hears voices - I hear voices. When I hear voices, my brain hears voices.

A human, on average, uses only 10% of the brain at any given time. But not the same 10% all the time. We just don't utilize every part of it at the same time, that's it. And Einstein had nothing to do with it, he was a physicist.

 

[Gharib]

Really? Well how would you explain sex with the opposite sex? Or is that just a trick? If you have sex with a woman you are heterosexual. Otherwise you'd never do it.

Point out the distinction, please.

you would, it all depends on the brain though. i gave one of the many examples in the other thread as to why a child may grow up liking men. some children will grow up to be teenagers and realise since then that they like men and not women. some will grow much older before they realise it (before the brain kicks in) and some will never get to know they are homosexual because their brain has already been changed from liking female stuff to male stuff again during their erly life years. it's all got to do with how much the childhood environment affects the brain.

 

[Gharib]

I am my brain.

so why aren't you your heart then? does your brain get to choose which woman you like or the heart? you cannot contorl your brain as much as you think just like you cannot control your heart. i'm not saying you do not control your thoughts and your brain, you do. but not for everything.

I do not control my brain nor does it control me. When my brain hears voices - I hear voices. When I hear voices, my brain hears voices.

when you hear voices from the outside you can stop them, when the brain hears voices from the inside why can't you stop them??

A human, on average, uses only 10% of the brain at any given time. But not the same 10% all the time. We just don't utilize every part of it at the same time, that's it. And Einstein had nothing to do with it, he was a physicist.

atleast i had one thing kind of correct.

 

[Commoner]

you would, it all depends on the brain though. i gave one of the many examples in the other thread as to why a child may grow up liking men. some children will grow up to be teenagers and realise since then that they like men and not women. some will grow much older before they realise it (before the brain kicks in) and some will never get to know they are homosexual because their brain has already been changed from liking female stuff to male stuff again during their erly life years. it's all got to do with how much the childhood environment affects the brain.

You haven't pointed out the distinction between the two.

On what grounds do you claim that a heterosexual cannot become homosexual, but a homosexual can become heterosexual?

I agree that the men who had families and later started a homosexual relationship were probably always homosexual (or at least bisexual), but I would have to apply the same rule to the opposite situation. If there is a case where a homosexual has turned heterosexual (as you claim they have), they were probably heterosexual all along.

 

[YmirGF]

From a gay perspective, reading the thoughts of Fatihah and Eselam on the topic of homosexuality is quite a chuckle. It is also appalling because they actually seem to believe the rubbish they are spouting. Though I scarcely can believe it, words fail me. It is hard to counter such idiocy though I do tip my hat to those of you who are trying to make sense out of their drivel.

 

[Gharib]

You haven't pointed out the distinction between the two.

what distintion?

On what grounds do you claim that a heterosexual cannot become homosexual, but a homosexual can become heterosexual?

what do you mean on what gorunds?

I agree that the men who had families and later started a homosexual relationship were probably always homosexual (or at least bisexual),

they were homosexual. if you ask a person that had a wife then latter became homosexual, how did this happen, they'll say it's natural, from birth.

but I would have to apply the same rule to the opposite situation. If there is a case where a homosexual has turned heterosexual (as you claim they have), they were probably heterosexual all along.

well yeah, everyones nature is heterosexual. thats why i'm saying a gay can become a heterosexual if they wanted to and stopped saying that it's natural. if you convince yourself that 2+2=5 then how can you have a discussion with that person that 2+2=4 when he's already convinced himself?

 

[Commoner]

so why aren't you your heart then? does your brain get to choose which woman you like or the heart? you cannot contorl your brain as much as you think just like you cannot control your heart. i'm not saying you do not control your thoughts and your brain, you do. but not for everything.

I do not "control" my thoughts at all, how would that work? I think what I think. The only thing I control (usually) are my actions.

The heart just pumps blood, that's all it is. I choose who I like and I am my brain - or rather the processes that we describe as our consciousness, occur in the brain. I don't know what the heart has to do with it, it's there to pump blood.

when you hear voices from the outside you can stop them, when the brain hears voices from the inside why can't you stop them??

Because I hear them - how would I stop them. Maybe my brain is the one that can't stop them and I'm imposing the voices on it. I don't really see what you mean? Are you trying to point out the distinction between the conscious an the unconscious self?