The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Bismillah]

Actually, the site I use is an authentic Muslim site.

Dah Linkypoo for Islamawakened. Nice try though.
This is a direct quote from Islamawakened.com in regards to the translation of Din/Hillan.

Yes, and I don't find any major dissimilarities between the two translations. Furthermore, that translation online is wrong, by Qur'an says something different.

Evidently, some Muslims don't agree with your position on this matter.

That's fine, but the that's not what the translation states.

But that problem does not arise when one is looking at multiple translations. Just out of curiosity, which are the top three sites. I'll let you know if I ever bother reading them.

Why would the problem not be because of faulty translations and neglecting the context of the verse? Also the websites are fairly numerous but jihadiwatch againstislam etc. etc.

Why, thank you. To be fair, it isn't my idea, but it is an idea I have worked with for over three decades

It does seem to explain the inherent discord and the fact that both parties staunchly defend their ideas.

But... it doesn't. Remember, unchanged... protected... yadda, yadda, yadda.

Of course it doesn't, or else it would have been mindless gibberish for thousands of years. Furthermore, the purpose of the Qur'an would then change from a spiritual guide to a scientific textbook.

But that leaves far too much room for silliness to enter the picture. It is somewhat mind-numbing that a single 6 word, vaguely written phrase is used to support the idea of the Big Bang, for example, or that mountains act as pegs to stabilize the "shaking" earth.

But, there should be assumptions of a claim being completely wrong. Also I am not an expert on scientific processes, possessing only a basic understanding, so I cannot go in depth and find in the Qur'an verses relating to scientific processes. But, I do know enough to refute apparent scientific contradictions, if you would like to cite the verse numbers I'm sure we could discuss it.

That and Muslims reliance on a faulty understanding of scientific issues or what is popularly described as "junk science". So, we have one camp using a faulty understanding of science and another camp using the "wrong" translations. Sounds like a recipe for disaster as far as I can tell. Do you at least appreciate how Muslims set themselves up to be knocked right back down?

Do you generalize that all Muslims rely on pseudoscience to back up their claims? There can just as easily be an instance of poor comprehension in an atheist's post as there can be pseudoscience in a Muslim's post.

I think there is tremendous value in these discussions for those who know very little about Islam. It serves to underscore the mindset often held by Muslims and the borderline fanaticism that makes them believe that their thinking is valid. My advice is that Muslims should try a different tactic unless they just wish to swell their ranks with fools, as it is only the foolish that are taken in by the paper-thin circular reasoning.

Really? All of it, collectively, seems like a heaping pile of garbage. It is pointless banter back and forth between one side and the other. I find it improbable that a newcomer would be willing to read all 70 pages of this thread. Rather new comers join the debate with their preconceptions and automatically join their "team". They don't take the time to consider the other's views and in the end nothing changes and the one with little understanding of Islam remains ignorant. What you call fanaticism I call faith. If you believe in something you are not led astray until someone else provides clear evidence to the contrary.

I do agree with this. It is very difficult to have a straight forward discussion when everyone is jumping in from different directions. I tried having a one on one discussion with a Muslim a few weeks back, but it appears that he has lost interest in presenting his arguments.

Maybe, I have also been irregular on these forums for a while. Here for a while then gone for three weeks . It varies with my availability and time constraints and motivation.

And deftly ignores the fact that many Arabic words have multiple meanings which leaves up with the agenda of one particular translator.

All the established translations I have read do not seem to be incongruous in any way.

 

[Breathe]

the pagan arabs used to call the quran a poem. but Muhamed (saws) never had anything to do with poetry. his childhood years were spent as a shepherd then he became a merchant.

Doesn't matter, some people have a gift with words, song and poetry alike. It doesn't matter if he was a shepherd and a merchant, he was philosophical, and would have spent a long time in thought.

You can add many things - illiteracy, dyslexia, blindness, etc, and it doesn't detract from the fact they can be a natural poet and good with their words.

thats not what is meant when we say he was iliterate. he may have been iliterate but he was the smartest man alive. he knew everything that Allah wanted him to know, Gabriel was his teacher and mesenger from Allah to Muhamed (saws).

There's no proof of that, so I'll take that as deification only, sorry.
These kind of things are unpalatable for me, no offence meant.

unfortunately no one can really prove that he did or did not speak with the jews and chrisitans about their faiths.

One cannot prove it, the same way one cannot prove that he went to Heaven or spoke to Gabriel or met Jesus.

However, on one hand we have claims such as going to Heaven, which Muslims believe, and yet the idea that Muhammad would have spoken to Christians and Jews is unprovable.

Naturally if Muhammad was a merchant, which he was, he would have encountered many people in his life. Someone spoke to Muhammad, some relative of Khadija or something who said that Muhammad was a prophet - and this person who said that (begins with a W, I think?) said that he's saddened because he won't see Muhammad's prophecies in his lifetime.

If this story is true, then we see that Muhammad had definite contact with Christians.

If we believe Muhammad was a merchant and would have encountered many people in his life, it's logical to assume some of them would be Christian and Jewish. We should naturally assume he got to talking with a few of them, and began to learn more and more about their beliefs over time - hey, he may have even had a few regular Jewish and Christians customers whilst he was a merchant, and they may have spoken a lot with a soft-spoken merchant who was interested in the stories of these two people's religions.

We could assume he talked to them a lot them, and he learned why Jews did not accept Jesus, and he wondered why there were such hostile feelings towards one another, and he formulated his own opinion on their beliefs. To think that Muhammad never spoke to a Jew nor Christian about their beliefs is to take a large leap of faith, really.

Just my $0.02 though

 

[nameless]

hell is a punishment, for the rejectors/disbelievers. what more punishment could you be asking for?

your scriptures say it is due to the involvement of devils there is rejectors and disbelievers.(devils are referred to parents)
So it is not their mistake that they became rejectors, so why they are sent to hell for punishment? and why allah cannot kill or punish the devils?

please show that to me otherwise don't speak about Allah that wich you don't know.

here is the proof, your friend jamal accepted that it is allah who created disabled people

Why did Allah create disabled people? to be honest, i wasnt there when he made that decision, but what i can ascertain from it is that variation for his creation. Allah if he wanted could have made everyone look the same without any disbailities, or he could have made everyone disabled.

However, the disabled person has a greater task in front of thyself as they must first overcome their disability physically and secondly they must be grateful for everything they still have. If in great difficulty one can still be thankful and grateful to Allah then only Allah knows how loved he is by him. Such an individual must be and should still be grateful of Allah as he has given hum/her Air to breath and food to eat.

 

[nameless]

if one is ungreatful and cannot see that even in peril they are in benefit from allah then they do not deserve to b loved by allah. on the other hand, Allah says he does what he wills, and forgives those who he wills, so i guess only Allah knows.

how they are benefited from allah? does allah throw food and cash from sky to them? the disabled people get rid each day working so hard, what is the wrong in cursing allah for making their life so miserable?

eselam's response to this

those who are disabled have less duties in this world and a greater rewad in paradise for not being able to do as much good as they possibly could, due to them being disabled.

how they are benefited from allah? does allah throw food and cash from sky to them? the disabled people get rid each day working so hard, what is the wrong in cursing allah for making their life so miserable?

does your god throw food and cash to the homeless and diabled hes created, if he even exists?

i dont believe god has created us, also it is not the right way to answer, finding faults in others faith wont justify yours faith.

 

[syberpriend]

Actually, the truth is that science, on the whole, doesn't consider the so-called "scientific miracles in the Qur'an" arguments to be worthy of responses. That is one reason why scientists ignore the drivel of this kind of thinking. A second and more important reason is what scientist, in their right mind, would make themselves a lightning rod for fanatical Muslims to use as their latest target?
My guess is slim to none and that those scientists have far more interesting, far less risky, things too do.

Whatever u say, maybe u can understand only, didnt understand wat u r trying to tell here brother, the miracles were shown to scientist, and they agreed for it, maybe ur knowledge is very weak in regard to this, go study and do research buddy.
Furthermore, scientist have always changed their opinions or results by the matter of time, till they reached some what precise result, e.g light of moon, water cycle, life of human from water, embryology, but maybe these terms are a little hard and scientific for u to understand, better get some hints and research before u post dear.

How did these so-called "scientific miracles" get into the Qur'an? That's simple. They are simply not there to begin with, so it's a wild goose chase, right from the get go.
What reference u want for that? have u ever read Quran to begin discussion? if u dont knw something about, better not to talk or give ur statement kid

Realy, it shows u r so dumb , better take ur pills and go to sleep, I'll pray u get well soon.
)(
and no doubt, just by chance, you happen to be one of the "correct" sect members.

.Thanks

 

[England my lionheart]

it has made things easy. you are blaming the quran for something that man is responsible. if you don't know hot to read then why blame the book for being a book? Allah doesn't say that no one can know the meanings of those verses, he says learned people can. so all you need to do is learn. gain some knowledge.

OK lets look at this logically,the Qur'an is a message sent down to "make things clear ," however several different Muslims could read the same allegorical verse and get several different interpretation and meanings.
There are many Muslim clerics,Sheikhs and Immams,all have studied the Quran and most have a different interpretation or meaning,now if things have been made clear and thats what the Qur'an itself states then this should not happen therefor having ambiguous verses is a contradiction.

 

[syberpriend]

OK lets look at this logically,the Qur'an is a message sent down to "make things clear ," however several different Muslims could read the same allegorical verse and get several different interpretation and meanings.
There are many Muslim clerics,Sheikhs and Immams,all have studied the Quran and most have a different interpretation or meaning,now if things have been made clear and thats what the Qur'an itself states then this should not happen therefor having ambiguous verses is a contradiction.

Brother, it depends on what u think, and take meaning of the verses u think have multiple meaning, but however, as Muslims who have studied Quran, have'nt find any difficulty in getting the meaning or interpretation of verses. However, some may require more historical background to get, in order to get more clarification. Otherwise its clear to understand, thats y I asked u if u can kindly provide any source of these multiple meaning verses, so we can talk more clear here.
Thanks

 

[syberpriend]

eselam's response to this







i dont believe god has created us, also it is not the right way to answer, finding faults in others faith wont justify yours faith.

Brother nameless, finding fault in others religion is not ethical, and correct way, andd no muslim is allowed to do that, for ur question that God didnt created us, can we ask u "Who created us"?

 

[nameless]

Brother nameless, finding fault in others religion is not ethical, and correct way, andd no muslim is allowed to do that, for ur question that God didnt created us, can we ask u "Who created us"?

eselam's question is valid only if i believe god created us, and i dont believe so, that does not mean i have to answer who created us, just because of the nature of the topic.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think the Scientific miracles of the Quran should be put into context of the time ie 1400 years ago,then this science would have been impressive to the uneducated however we all know this knowledge was available hundreds of years before this time via the Greek Philosophers ie Leucippus,Democritus,Aristotle,Pythagoras etc and India produced so many great Mathematicians so the science of the Qur'an isn't so miraculous when viwed this way.

 

[England my lionheart]

Brother, it depends on what u think, and take meaning of the verses u think have multiple meaning, but however, as Muslims who have studied Quran, have'nt find any difficulty in getting the meaning or interpretation of verses. However, some may require more historical background to get, in order to get more clarification. Otherwise its clear to understand, thats y I asked u if u can kindly provide any source of these multiple meaning verses, so we can talk more clear here.
Thanks

The Qur'an states that the Mutashabihat Ayat have multiple meanings,to understand or interpret these you would need to have the knowledge that Eselam spoke of.
This is a contradiction to These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [26:2]

Do you see,even with knowledge these verses will give a different meaning which is contradicting "we have made clear," it is obvious that it isnt clear because just as Christians interpret the Bible in different ways so do Muslims when it comes to the Qur'an and especially these Allegorical ambiguous verses.
Many Muslims apart from those who follow the Qur'an alone rely on the Sunna and Ahadith to even understand the Quran which adds to the problems facing Islam today and far from making things clear it adds to the misinterpretation of the Qur'an which is very evident in Islamic states.

 

[syberpriend]

The Qur'an states that the Mutashabihat Ayat have multiple meanings,to understand or interpret these you would need to have the knowledge that Eselam spoke of.
This is a contradiction to These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [26:2]

Brother, where does Quran states that there are multiple meaning verses , and u need supreme knowdledge and scholar to read them? The meaning u quote of verse 26:2, is actually "These are the verses of book", where it say that makes things clear? again I say, it depends on what imagination or idea u adopt of the verse, otherwise its simple and easy to understandd, wats contradicting in this dear?

Do you see,even with knowledge these verses will give a different meaning which is contradicting "we have made clear," it is obvious that it isnt clear because just as Christians interpret the Bible in different ways so do Muslims when it comes to the Qur'an and especially these Allegorical ambiguous verses.
There r'nt any ambigous verses, or which are hard to understand, I have'nt found any, if uve seen any , kindly bring to us as well brother.
Many Muslims apart from those who follow the Qur'an alone rely on the Sunna and Ahadith to even understand the Quran which adds to the problems facing Islam today and far from making things clear it adds to the misinterpretation of the Qur'an which is very evident in Islamic states.

The problem which muslims face today, are only due to political reasons, and lak of education, it has nthing to do with Quran, if some1 dont know arabic, or some1 dont want to study Quran, they can just take meaning of their choice, and interpret as per their desire, for example. 1 true incident I willl quote.
In Malaysia, 1 professor of Quran, told his female students, that the verse of Quran. Verse 4:3 "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice"
Now this professor, cause of his lust, add all these 2 and 3 and 4, and final 1 to 10, and he marry 10 females, so its his intrepetation cause of his lust, and fungus mind, but Quran is clear in statement, and using the language .

Hope it makes bit clear to u brother

 

[England my lionheart]

Sayyid Qutb was well educated,studied the Quran since Childhood,even went to University in Colorado,wrote narratives on the Quran and numerous books such as "in the shade of the Qur'an" and some Muslims consider him to be a Martyr so one would expect such a person to have the neccessary knowledge but as we see in Afghanistan his writings have been used by the Taliban.
Now i would think from your posts so far that you are as far removed from Qutb as Chalk is from Cheese so these verses obviously do not make things clear otherwise there would only be Muslims and not Qutb ,Wahabi etc just Muslims,these to sects consider all others to be Apostates so somethings wrong somewhere and you cannot just blame culture lust and greed.

 

[syberpriend]

Sayyid Qutb was well educated,studied the Quran since Childhood,even went to University in Colorado,wrote narratives on the Quran and numerous books such as "in the shade of the Qur'an" and some Muslims consider him to be a Martyr so one would expect such a person to have the neccessary knowledge but as we see in Afghanistan his writings have been used by the Taliban.
Now i would think from your posts so far that you are as far removed from Qutb as Chalk is from Cheese so these verses obviously do not make things clear otherwise there would only be Muslims and not Qutb ,Wahabi etc just Muslims,these to sects consider all others to be Apostates so somethings wrong somewhere and you cannot just blame culture lust and greed.

What u r trying to say brother, what Syed Qutb or his studies, Taliban, setcs, my has to do with Quran contradiction? is there anything mention in Quran, where it states there will be sect among muslims? I didnt get u clearly, can u clarify plz

 

[England my lionheart]

What u r trying to say brother, what Syed Qutb or his studies, Taliban, setcs, my has to do with Quran contradiction? is there anything mention in Quran, where it states there will be sect among muslims? I didnt get u clearly, can u clarify plz

First to clarify i am not tarring all Muslims with the same brush,the point i am trying to get accross is simple 3:7] He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses.
Which contradicts:
"A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book. (alkitabi almubeenu)" [12:1]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [26:2][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear; (kitabin mubeenin)" [27:1] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [28:2][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"By the Book that makes things clear,- (Waalkitabi almubeeni)" [43:2, 44:2][/FONT]

Allegorical or multi meaning verses are not clear,if they were there would be one type of Muslim but we know that Wahabi and Qutb sects follow a path of Islam totally different to say your average Muslim in the UK,these verses are very open to interpretation and to the wrong interpretation,if you intend to make things clear one would do so with verses that are,therefor this is in itself a contradiction.

 

[syberpriend]

First to clarify i am not tarring all Muslims with the same brush,the point i am trying to get accross is simple 3:7] He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses.
Which contradicts:

Complete verse is this brother, and clarification will make it clear to u as well, cause u quote half verse, which is not good, uve to quote fulll context.
(3:7) It is He Who has revealed the Book to you. Some of its verses are absolutely clear and lucid, and these are the core of the Book.5 Others are ambiguous.6 Those in whose hearts there is perversity, always go about the part which is ambiguous, seeking mischief and seeking to arrive at its meaning arbitrarily, although none knows their true meaning except Allah. On the contrary, those firmly rooted in knowledge say: 'We believe in it; it is all from our Lord alone.'7 No one derives true admonition from anything except the men of understanding.
*5. Muhkam means that which has been made firmly and perfectly. The muhkam verses mentioned here are those Qur'anic verses which are embodied in clear and lucid language and whose meaning is not liable to any ambiguity and equivocation. The words of these verses are clear pointers to their true meaning and, therefore, it is difficult to subject them to arbitrary interpretation. Such verses form the core of the Holy Book; they are the verses which fulfil the true purpose for which the Qur'an was revealed, and they invite the whole world to Islam. They embody admonition and instruction as well as the refutation of erroneous doctrines and the elucidation of the Right Way. They also contain the fundamentals of the true faith; teachings relating to belief, worship and morality, and mandatory duties and prohibitions. These are the verses which will guide the genuine seeker after Truth who turns to the Qur'an in order to find out what he ought and ought not to do.
*6. 'Ambiguous' verses are those whose meaning may have some degree of equivocation. It is obvious that no way of life can be prescribed for man unless a certain amount of knowledge explaining the truth about the universe, about its origin and end, about man's position in it and other matters of similar importance, is intimated to him. It is also evident that the truths which lie beyond the range of human perception have always eluded and will continue to elude man; no words exist in the human vocabulary which either express or portray them. In speaking about such things, we necessarily resort to words and expressions generally employed in connection with tangible objects. In the Qur'an, too, this kind of language is employed in relation to supernatural matters; the verses which have been characterized as 'ambiguous' refer to such matters.

At best, such expressions may serve to either bring man close to or enable him to formulate some view of reality, even if it is a faint one. The more one tries to determine the precise meaning of such verses, the more their ambiguities proliferate, and the more one is confronted with choosing between several plausible interpretations. All this is likely to alienate one progressively further away' from the Truth instead of bringing one closer to it. Those who seek the Truth and do not hanker after the satisfaction of their egocentric quest for exotic superfluities, will be satisfied with the dim vision of reality derived from these verses. They will concentrate their attention instead on the clear and lucid 'core' verses of the Qur'an. It will be left to those who are either out to make mischief and mislead people or who have an abnormal passion for superfluities to devote their attention to hair-splitting discussions about the contents of the 'ambiguous" verses.
*7. This might give rise to an unnecessary problem: How can people believe in 'ambiguous' verses when the contents of these cannot be grasped?

The fact is that a reasonable person will believe that the Qur'an is the Book of God through his reading of its clear and lucid verses, rather than by learning fanciful interpretations of the ambiguous verses. Once so convinced, he is not likely to be worried by doubts and anxieties caused by the ambiguities of the verses concerned. One who seeks the Truth is satisfied with the obvious meaning of these verses, and wherever he encounters complications and ambiguities he abstains from pursuing their solution too far. Instead of wasting his time splitting hairs, he is content to believe in the things laid down in the Book of God, without seeking to know them precisely and in detail. He turns his attention, in the main, to questions of a practical nature.
Now its upto u what meaning u want to extract, for a true believer, the verses are clear, whereas the person who wants to find mistake,, even from good things, he will stilll try to find negative points.
"A.L.R. These are the symbols (or Verses) of the perspicuous Book. (alkitabi almubeenu)" [12:1]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [26:2][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear; (kitabin mubeenin)" [27:1] [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"These are Verses of the Book that makes (things) clear.(alkitabialmubeeni) " [28:2][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"By the Book that makes things clear,- (Waalkitabi almubeeni)" [43:2, 44:2][/FONT]

Allegorical or multi meaning verses are not clear,if they were there would be one type of Muslim but we know that Wahabi and Qutb sects follow a path of Islam totally different to say your average Muslim in the UK,these verses are very open to interpretation and to the wrong interpretation,if you intend to make things clear one would do so with verses that are,therefor this is in itself a contradiction.

Wahabi and Qutb dont follow the seperate path, if it was this, there wont be multiple gathering on occasion of Hajj, and there will be seperate masjids for every sect of wahabi and qutb.
Hadith (Saying) of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) "My ummah will be divided into seventy three sects. All of them will be in the Fire except one?, [Saheeh Muslim, no.976]

Now brother if u want to ask whicch sect is the one, we need another discussion, so lets finish this quran topic 1st, we shall move to this sect topic afterwards.

 

[YmirGF]

Whatever u say, maybe u can understand only, didnt understand wat u r trying to tell here brother,

First off, I am not your brother, so please do not insult me by calling me such. Thanks in advance.
Second, you didn't understand what I am saying and yet you go on to form conclusions about what I am saying. Forgive me, but some might think that is a bit illogical.

the miracles were shown to scientist, and they agreed for it, maybe ur knowledge is very weak in regard to this, go study and do research buddy.

Oddly, I hadn't noticed any well publicized events where world renowned scientists patted Muslim fiction writers on their collective heads.

I can only assume you are talking about abject morons like Gary Miller [SIZE=-1](Abdul-Ahad Omar), [/SIZE]Kenneth Moore, Maurice Bucaille and related disenfranchised former scientists/doctors. Perhaps it you who should be doing the actual research.

Furthermore, scientist have always changed their opinions or results by the matter of time, till they reached somewhat precise result, e.g light of moon, water cycle, life of human from water, embryology, but maybe these terms are a little hard and scientific for u to understand, better get some hints and research before u post dear.

I am quite likely far more proficient at this that are you my friend. Though I am most comfortable talking about Sub-atomic Physics, Cosmology, Theoretical Physics, Psychology and several other areas, I am, at least acquainted with the scientific data on the topics you mention. I understand that data just fine, thanks. I'm guessing that you wouldn't know what research was if it came and queried your opinions.

What reference u want for that?

Is this supposed to be an intelligible remark?

have u ever read Quran to begin discussion? if u dont knw something about, better not to talk or give ur statement kid.

Given that I am quite likely old enough to be your daddy, if not your grandfather, it is amusing to be called a "kid", though it is true that I am rather young at heart and certainly don't look my age... well, most days.

To answer your question, I have read several versions of the Qur'an in its entirety, perused various verses, compared translations, read a great deal of ahadith, countless fatwa's, conversed with Muslims for over 8 years... and on and on... Let's put it this way. I know enough about Islam to know when Muslims are pulling my leg.

Realy, it shows u r so dumb , better take ur pills and go to sleep, I'll pray u get well soon.

Please, do NOT pray for me, unless you are hell bent on insulting me completely. And thank you for saying that I am dumb, frankly, it isn't something I have noticed over the decades, so thank you for pointing that out. Where were you when I was getting A's in school? Obviously my teachers must have been terribly misguided, mind you, I did pay them well. :flirt:

Thanks

My pleasure.

 

[syberpriend]

First off, I am not your brother, so please do not insult me by calling me such. Thanks in advance.
Well i use to give every1 respect,and every1 is brother in humanity and mankind here, if u dnt like to get respect, its upto u, maybe I should call u sister, like it???:flirt:
Second, you didn't understand what I am saying and yet you go on to form conclusions about what I am saying. Forgive me, but some might think that is a bit illogical.
ofcourse, if u talk in human language, and in simple words, u can help every1 understand ur vision, ofcourse ur thoughts are illogical, and ur statements are beyond the understanding of a normal and sensible human
Oddly, I hadn't noticed any well publicized events where world renowned scientists patted Muslim fiction writers on their collective heads.
Well, those confrences are hapening in public and for ppl with open minds and open heart, not for mama's kid like u, who just sit in room and use computer for pointing out others, which shows ur aim of life is only this

I can only assume you are talking about abject morons like Gary Miller [SIZE=-1](Abdul-Ahad Omar), [/SIZE]Kenneth Moore, Maurice Bucaille and related disenfranchised former scientists/doctors.
Whatever u call them, they are famous personalities, and have respectable position in their field, life and world, not like a looser like u, maybe ur ideal is william campbell, who is without brain, and lost his debate.

Perhaps it you who should be doing the actual research.I am quite likely far more proficient at this that are you my friend. Though I am most comfortable talking about Sub-atomic Physics, Cosmology, Theoretical Physics, Psychology and several other areas, I am, at least acquainted with the scientific data on the topics you mention. I understand that data just fine, thanks. I'm guessing that you wouldn't know what research was if it came and queried your opinions.

maybe u r thinking in Quran u will find pythagoras theorem, or nuclear formula etc, well sister, its a book for mankind, it have directions, and method to live life for ideal society, morals, laws for civilisation, rules for good ruler, healthy life, better and decent war strategies etc etc. but anyways, its a book for ppl with mind and open heart, not for u sister.
Is this supposed to be an intelligible remark?Given that I am quite likely old enough to be your daddy, if not your grandfather, it is amusing to be called a "kid", though it is true that I am rather young at heart and certainly don't look my age... well, most days.
U can;t be my daddy , he is a man, and human, but for u, its more unlikely to be any of this

To answer your question, I have read several versions of the Qur'an
in its entirety, perused various verses, compared translations, read a great deal of ahadith, countless fatwa's, conversed with Muslims for over 8 years... and on and on... Let's put it this way. I know enough about Islam to know when Muslims are pulling my leg.
1st time I heard in my enrite life that several versions of Quran is available, realy it shows how dumb u r , there is only 1 version of Quran, eversince its revealed and writen in book form, maybe u r comparing with bible. Oh maybe u r talking a bout translations, there is difference between version and translation, go and enrol again in school kid.
Please, do NOT pray for me, unless you are hell bent on insulting me completely. And thank you for saying that I am dumb, frankly, it isn't something I have noticed over the decades, so thank you for pointing that out.
Stil I wil pray for u, atleast I will be justified in politness andd kindness, which my religion teaches me.
Where were you when I was getting A's in school? Obviously my teachers must have been terribly misguided, mind you, I did pay them well. :flirt:
U get A's or Z's, wat Ive to do with that? grow up, does;nt matter not to any1 here.
My pleasure.

By the way sister, its a religious forum, where ppl discuss about religions, not for unhuman or stupid stuff, u r most welcome to discuss any religious point, for other stuff, u can join tom & jerry forum:angel2:

 

[England my lionheart]

Wahabi and Qutb dont follow the seperate path, if it was this, there wont be multiple gathering on occasion of Hajj, and there will be seperate masjids for every sect of wahabi and qutb.
Hadith (Saying) of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) "My ummah will be divided into seventy three sects. All of them will be in the Fire except one?, [Saheeh Muslim, no.976]

Wahabi and Qutb consider other Muslims as Apostates

Now brother if u want to ask whicch sect is the one, we need another discussion, so lets finish this quran topic 1st, we shall move to this sect topic afterwards.

OK that would be interesting

 

[YmirGF]

Well i use to give every1 respect,and every1 is brother in humanity and mankind here, if u dnt like to get respect, its upto u, maybe I should call u sister, like it???

If you need to call me anything, you are welcome to call me “insolent kafir”.

ofcourse, if u talk in human language, and in simple words, u can help every1 understand ur vision, ofcourse ur thoughts are illogical, and ur statements are beyond the understanding of a normal and sensible human

Curiously, those who have endured my miserable 7,194 posts since November 2005 on RF have not had much difficulty understanding me. Given that, I must conclude that any difficulties in understanding exist solely on your side of the screen.

Well, those confrences are hapening in public and for ppl with open minds and open heart, not for mama's kid like u, who just sit in room and use computer for pointing out others, which shows ur aim of life is only this

Over the last 8 years, I have not heard a Muslim ever make this claim. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to back up your claim.
In the immortal words of Fatihah, "I see words. Where is the proof!"

Whatever u call them, they are famous personalities, and have respectable position in their field, life and world, not like a looser like u, maybe ur ideal is william campbell, who is without brain, and lost his debate.

To be fair, neither Moore or Miller have anything remotely approaching “fame” anywhere outside of Muslim circles. The scientific world is hardly hanging on their every word. In fairness to William Campbell, I have not read a thing he has written although I have watched his amusing exchange with Dr. Zakir Naik. Naik is quite the bombastic showman, I’ll say that. Naik’s approach is somewhat juvenile, but effective, nonetheless.

maybe u r thinking in Quran u will find pythagoras theorem, or nuclear formula etc, well sister, its a book for mankind, it have directions, and method to live life for ideal society, morals, laws for civilisation, rules for good ruler, healthy life, better and decent war strategies etc etc. but anyways, its a book for ppl with mind and open heart, not for u sister.

No, I am not expecting anything scientific in the Qur’an beyond what was accepted in the 7th century. I’m still waiting for evidence of this so-called “ideal” society though.

1st time I heard in my enrite life that several versions of Quran is available, realy it shows how dumb u r , there is only 1 version of Quran, eversince its revealed and writen in book form, maybe u r comparing with bible. Oh maybe u r talking a bout translations, there is difference between version and translation, go and enrol again in school kid.

My, but you are charmer.

It is true, I should have used the term “translations”, but even then, each translation I have read puts a slightly different twist on the meaning of the different sections. In effect, the translator consciously injects their own interpretations into the text and so, in English, at least, it is quite reasonable to say “versions” in this context. Deal with it.

Stil I wil pray for u, atleast I will be justified in politness andd kindness, which my religion teaches me.

Curiously, I don’t see much evidence of politeness in your amusing remarks. Perhaps you missed those teachings and should review them a few more times. You almost make me feel as if I am back on good old ISLAM.COM Their forums were pretty wild and had many people just like yourself!

By the way sister, its a religious forum, where ppl discuss about religions, not for unhuman or stupid stuff, u r most welcome to discuss any religious point, for other stuff, u can join tom & jerry forum

Please use the proper term and call me “insolent kafir”.

As to your advice, I much prefer to be a thorn in people’s side.