The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Fatihah]

the universe simply existed all the time, some stars collides each other, and earth might have formed in such manner, and there was water in earth and life formed.
many millions of years ago happened all these. The universe may be or may not be complicated that does not mean somebody created these. Why not possible this complicated evolved naturally, i assume you know the mechanism of rain, one who have no idea about mechanism of rain thinks that some people are pouring water from sky, but when its mechanism is known, he can understand that there is no intelligent mind behind that.
BTW in the quran it is said that rain is happened by allah's will and allah's angel makes it rain whenever allah wishes, but no one is able to prove that, thus it is a fault in quran.

Response: But indeed, it has been proven. You see, if there is proof that Allah is the originator of the heavens and the earth and all of the universe and life itself, and also that the qur'an is the true word of Allah, then that alone proves that the rain comes by Allah's will. So the question is "What proof is it that the qur'an is the true word of Allah?" As England suggests, now the vortex beckons.

In the qur'an we read:

In ch: 4:82 of the qur'an we read, "Will they not,then, meditate upon the Qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". Also in ch.2:23 we read "And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful".

Here we have two tests to prove the authenticity and truth of the qur'an. Once applied, you will come to learn that the qur'an is in fact from Allah and has never nor will it ever be corrupted. For if you can prove that it is humanly possible to produce a chapter like the qur'an, then you are correct in saying that there is no proof that the qur'an is from Allah. But if you can not, then the question to ask is "where did the qur'an come from if it's not humanly possible to create a chapter like it?" Then you will come to learn that the originator is none other than Allahu subhanna wa ta ala. You disagree? Then the challenge still stands. Produce a chapter like it.

 

[nameless]

Response: But indeed, it has been proven. You see, if there is proof that Allah is the originator of the heavens and the earth and all of the universe and life itself, and also that the qur'an is the true word of Allah, then that alone proves that the rain comes by Allah's will. So the question is "What proof is it that the qur'an is the true word of Allah?" As England suggests, now the vortex beckons.

None of your comments are proven, they are just a claim with no base.
Existence of heaven proved? when?
allah created universe? lol, Universe formed from bigbang, so the earth.
Quran is the word from allah? even existence of allah is not proved other than name of allah written in some animals somewhere. In you words 'MIRACLE'
rain comes from allahs will? we dont see allah's angels sitting over the clouds pouring rain, also it is scientifically proven how rain happens, eselam knows that how.

 

[syberpriend]

Note the edit

I am busy today but will ask this,in the Qur'an there are over 100 non Arabic words which is pretty much agreed on,now i have already heard the loan word argument but this is in contradiction to 16:103] We are fully aware that they say, "A human being is teaching him!" The tongue of the source they hint at is non-Arabic, and this is a perfect Arabic tongue.
__________________

(16:103) Surely We know well that they say about you: "It is only a human being who teaches him," (notwithstanding) that he whom they maliciously hint at is of foreign tongue, while this (Qur'an) is plain Arabic speech.

Now to get idea of this verse, ofcourse uve to read and previous verses and the after verse,. wats the connection of non-arabic words in Quran, with this verse? if u say that non-arabic words arabs dont know, thn u may say its a contradiction, e.g glass is an english word, but we use it in our language urdu frequently, even totaly illetrate man, who dnt know abcd knows glass and its usage. Similarly those non-arabic words used in Quran, are part of arab life at that time, and all the arabs were well verse with those words. Does'nt seem any contradiction here.

To make it easy brother, u r bringing contradiction for language and grammer etc, but contradiction u can say should be like "IF its stated Prophet Moosa came before Jesus, and other place it will show that he came before Abraham or after Jesus, this is example of contradiction, like geneology of Jesus in Bible, Matthew 1:1-16, and Luke 3:23-38 is example of contradiction,

 

[syberpriend]

only you feels such.
the universe as a whole was same yesterday like today, was same day before yesterday just like today, if this theory is applied, it proves that universed simply existed since the bigbang.

UNiverse existed as always? where in science is this phrase? since the big-bang means big-bang happen, when it was proven by science? give proof with year and scientist name plz

whats the problem saying human body formed naturally? nothing is happened inside human body unnaturally.
gravitation force, heat, chemical reactions etc etc are responsible for the formation of human body.
u mean heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, typical brain functio etc are form of gravitational force and heat chemical reacton? does all chemical reactons result in same? how much acccuracy they hold? and how many humans have same function in percentage wise? does this all goes by chance or by chemical reaction? dnt give statements, provide proof also


it does not require proof for raining, it happens naturally, even if gravitational force was not invented apple will be falling down.

u still ddidnt answer, how and when humans come to knw about rain process or water cycle??

after the bigbang it simply existed.

when big bang happen, and when humans come to know, again,proof required about when this theory came

 

[syberpriend]

England my lionheart, 1 question for u as well, little out of topic.

What fault do u see in Islam, and what thing u dont like in Islam, just curios to know that.
Thanks

 

[Breathe]

I'd like to ask about Mary mother of Jesus' father in Islam. It's Imran, right?
Is this the Arabic version of the name Amram?

 

[syberpriend]

I'd like to ask about Mary mother of Jesus' father in Islam. It's Imran, right?
Is this the Arabic version of the name Amram?

Odion, foreign names are used in every languge, and cause of long usage, or the influence of other culture, it become part of it, Imran is not arabic word, but is used in Arab later on, same as Moses in Hebrews, but Greek didnt changed it, though they changed Yeshua to Jesus, but in arabic, stil they used Imran or Amran. I guess there is nothing wrong in this

 

[Breathe]

Odion, foreign names are used in every languge, and cause of long usage, or the influence of other culture, it become part of it, Imran is not arabic word, but is used in Arab later on, same as Moses in Hebrews, but Greek didnt changed it, though they changed Yeshua to Jesus, but in arabic, stil they used Imran or Amran. I guess there is nothing wrong in this

I was not criticising.
A simple 'yes' or 'no' was all I was after. I'm very well aware of how languages and and names within different languages are used, considering I've studied linguistics.

 

[syberpriend]

I was not criticising.
A simple 'yes' or 'no' was all I was after. I'm very well aware of how languages and and names within different languages are used, considering I've studied linguistics.

I know Odion its not a critism by u, I just feel like giving a bit brief answer, so other readers can understand as well.

 

[Breathe]

I know Odion its not a critism by u, I just feel like giving a bit brief answer, so other readers can understand as well.

Oh, ok. Thanks!

 

[England my lionheart]

England my lionheart, 1 question for u as well, little out of topic.

What fault do u see in Islam, and what thing u dont like in Islam, just curios to know that.
Thanks

The fault i see is'nt Islam,the fault is with some of its followers who take it literally,but the biggest fault is the Ahadith,some are sahih to some but not to others which causes suffering through punishment for Apostacy,Adultery etc via cruel punishments such as stoning which is unacceptable in this day and age.
The other thing i dislike is the holier than thou attitude of some Muslims and the incredible claims of miracles and such,i having nothing against people having faith in something as this can give comfort but to purport it to be something else is wrong IMO.

 

[syberpriend]

The fault i see is'nt Islam,the fault is with some of its followers who take it literally,but the biggest fault is the Ahadith,some are sahih to some but not to others which causes suffering through punishment for Apostacy,Adultery etc via cruel punishments such as stoning which is unacceptable in this day and age.
The other thing i dislike is the holier than thou attitude of some Muslims and the incredible claims of miracles and such,i having nothing against people having faith in something as this can give comfort but to purport it to be something else is wrong IMO.

Ok, Im glad u share ur feelings towards Islam, like its in Quran, "There is no compulsion in religion". Ofcourse i know uve studied Quran, and got to know Islam in little detail, but still some concepts are not clear to u till now.
1st of All, for Quran I think u dont have any un-human, un-ethical clause for humans.
2nd, for Hadith, its agreed upon all the muslim sects, that the 6 authentic book of hadiths, have no contratiction, and to be followed after Quran for general rules.
Now if some ppl made another sect, and dnt want to follow Quran and hadiths, it does;nt mean u blame full mulims and Quran and hadiths.
If u are considering Death penalty by stoning or cutting hands incase of theft, or lashes, u must be knowing for wat reasons these punishments are.
1) Stoning is only for Adultery, means married man r woman do sex hiddenly or openly, not with their legal husband or wife.
2)If unmarried man or woman do sex with each other, they get lashes only, but there is limit and some condition for this.
3) Hand cut is only for theft, with certain condition and limits.
Now these certain and condition require another talk, like if some1 steal food item, or from masjid, or amount less thn 10 dhs, or equal amount etc, or cause of poverty, no hand cut should be there, means its only for normal or rich ppl this penalty, mostly poor ppl dont get this punishment, cause for poverty, govt. head is responsible to provide food and basic life things to citizens.

Now by implementing these laws, a model society can be obtained, without crimes, theft, jealousy which tempts humans to do bad things.

For miracles and this, if its proven by Quran and hadiths, there is no problem, but after death of Prophet Muhammmad, no miracle is shown to mankind by God, as it was only done by God through sprophets, but normal life miracles, like falling from some 3-4 storey building and alive, its common, this is only God's wisddom or decision, that the time is not there for the person to die.

Hope it clear some concepts , for punishments, we can start new topic andd I can explain more clearly and in depth, which will make it more clear to u Inshallah.


Thanks for everything

 

[Fatihah]

None of your comments are proven, they are just a claim with no base.
Existence of heaven proved? when?
allah created universe? lol, Universe formed from bigbang, so the earth.
Quran is the word from allah? even existence of allah is not proved other than name of allah written in some animals somewhere. In you words 'MIRACLE'
rain comes from allahs will? we dont see allah's angels sitting over the clouds, also it is scientifically proven how rain happens, eselam knows that how.

Response: You have beautifully dodged the challenge. No where in the post did I claim anything was proven but rathered issued a challenge to see if in fact there is proof. A challenge you clearly dodged, clearly showing your own denial.

 

[nameless]

Response: You have beautifully dodged the challenge. No where in the post did I claim anything was proven but rathered issued a challenge to see if in fact there is proof. A challenge you clearly dodged, clearly showing your own denial.

i did not mean you did or did not proved those in this forum, just meant they all are not proved by the quran or by scholars. BTW i dodged what challenge?

 

[nameless]

@ Fathihah

we were talking about mechanism of rain, isnt it? or which one?

 

[England my lionheart]

To show why IMO the ahadith are a problem,about 5 months ago there was an old Man who married a Child in Saudi Arabia,many would argue that this is a cultural thing and possibly true but as the old Man is a Muslim he can justify the marriage because he has a precedent because Muhammed married Aisha.
Apostacy,in the Qur'an it states that there should be no compulsion in religion but as we know from the ahadith Muhammed had Apostates killed for Apostacy,there are many Hadith to testify to that and proof that they are still taken lterally.
Adultery,people are killed by the stones for this very Human act,for what ever reason Adultery has been commited it surely is'nt worth stoning someone to death for,to add to this some rape victims end up being stoned instead of the rapist because of the four witness rule,thankfully we do not have huddood punishments in the UK as Sharia here can only arbitrate which is the right of us all.
So as you see the Ahadith are a problem as they set many bad precedents because many Muslims in places, like Pakistan,Iran,Saudi cannot see past the 7th century and many Quran only Muslims would agree with me.

 

[syberpriend]

To show why IMO the ahadith are a problem,about 5 months ago there was an old Man who married a Child in Saudi Arabia,many would argue that this is a cultural thing and possibly true but as the old Man is a Muslim he can justify the marriage because he has a precedent because Muhammed married Aisha.
Apostacy,in the Qur'an it states that there should be no compulsion in religion but as we know from the ahadith Muhammed had Apostates killed for Apostacy,there are many Hadith to testify to that and proof that they are still taken lterally.
Adultery,people are killed by the stones for this very Human act,for what ever reason Adultery has been commited it surely is'nt worth stoning someone to death for,to add to this some rape victims end up being stoned instead of the rapist because of the four witness rule,thankfully we do not have huddood punishments in the UK as Sharia here can only arbitrate which is the right of us all.
So as you see the Ahadith are a problem as they set many bad precedents because many Muslims in places, like Pakistan,Iran,Saudi cannot see past the 7th century and many Quran only Muslims would agree with me.

I told u, u wil mistake the hadiths without knowing in depth the meaning, the best way is to make new topic, and invite me, which I told u before as well, as here it will deviate all of us from the basic topic . I will answer all ur concerns there I promise

 

[Fatihah]

i did not mean you did or did not proved those in this forum, just meant they all are not proved by the quran or by scholars. BTW i dodged what challenge?

Response: The challenge explained in post 781.

 

[nameless]

Response: But indeed, it has been proven. You see, if there is proof that Allah is the originator of the heavens and the earth and all of the universe and life itself, and also that the qur'an is the true word of Allah, then that alone proves that the rain comes by Allah's will. So the question is "What proof is it that the qur'an is the true word of Allah?" As England suggests, now the vortex beckons.

In the qur'an we read:

In ch: 4:82 of the qur'an we read, "Will they not,then, meditate upon the Qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". Also in ch.2:23 we read "And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful".

Here we have two tests to prove the authenticity and truth of the qur'an. Once applied, you will come to learn that the qur'an is in fact from Allah and has never nor will it ever be corrupted. For if you can prove that it is humanly possible to produce a chapter like the qur'an, then you are correct in saying that there is no proof that the qur'an is from Allah. But if you can not, then the question to ask is "where did the qur'an come from if it's not humanly possible to create a chapter like it?" Then you will come to learn that the originator is none other than Allahu subhanna wa ta ala. You disagree? Then the challenge still stands. Produce a chapter like it.

Response: You have beautifully dodged the challenge. No where in the post did I claim anything was proven but rathered issued a challenge to see if in fact there is proof. A challenge you clearly dodged, clearly showing your own denial.

so we have to produce a new chapter like the chapters in quran to prove quran is wrong? my life purpose is not to prove quran is wrong, no one would have enough patience to do so. Why need to go for this when there is countless number of faults and contradictions in quran?
we were discussing something about the universe and mechanism of rain, and before completing that discussion you came up with a challenge, this is what we call 'doding' coming forward with some challenge which you decides and asking us to disprove that, this is almost like accepting quran false. If quran is true, it is us who is to decide what the challenge is to be and you should prove quran is correct.

It is clear now who is actually 'Dodging', we were discussing something about the universe and mechanism of rain,
now you should prove the qurans explanation of rain is true.

 

[.lava]

I'd like to ask about Mary mother of Jesus' father in Islam. It's Imran, right?
Is this the Arabic version of the name Amram?

Imran is the name of the family of Saint Maria. i don't know about Amran.






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