The Vortex beckons,how many contradictions and errors are in the Qur'an

[Don Penguinoini]

Kai one of our Posters on RF coined a phrase which best described debating with Muslim Posters concerning topics such as "scientific miracles of the Qur'an" because of the circular reasoning used by some Posters in said thread.
Now ,i am not expecting to break free of the Vortex but at the request of Eselam i am asking for examples of errors or contradictions in the Qur'an and if there are any does this prove that the Qur'an was inspired by Man or in the event there are none does it prove it was inspired by God.
I will ask that people refrain from personal remarks or insults as these just detract from the debate,we are all different (if we are allowed to be that is) so show a little tollerance.

ZAM!

Wrong. Koran is perfect.

 

[YmirGF]

Why would someone choose their sexuality,what would be the motivation to do that IYO

Given the existing sentiments about homosexuals, I am not entirely sure how people would get it into their head that it was something one chooses to do. Why on earth would anyone choose to be gay, given the existing prejudices against this aspect of human behavior? It makes no sense, whatsoever. They obviously have not thought this through or thought to ask a gay person how it really is.

 

[Fatihah]

Sorry i do not buy that,lets go one step further,a Person who was born mentally retarded does he face the same test,just how can he negotiate these obstacles.

Response: What do you mean by "same test?" There is no specific test. What you may go through in life will differ from mine depending on the lifestyle you choose to live.

 

[Fatihah]

Given the existing sentiments about homosexuals, I am not entirely sure how people would get it into their head that it was something one chooses to do. Why on earth would anyone choose to be gay, given the existing prejudices against this aspect of human behavior? It makes no sense, whatsoever. They obviously have not thought this through or thought to ask a gay person how it really is.

Response: To the contrary, you seem to not grasp just how illogical your statement is. It's not like you've never heard of pedophiles, rapists, drug dealers, adulterers, prostitutes, etc. All of these are lifestlyes which people choose despite the harsh criticism they face in choosing such behavior. You yourself get criticized for your beliefs and arguments all the time. Proof of that is the fact that you just stated that you were called "Satan". I myself face the same criticism because I my religion of islam. So to say that it's a failed argument to say that someone would choose homosexuality because they would not want to face such prejudices and criticism it brings is the actual failed argument because not only do you know from the examples above that people do in fact choose behaviors which brings prejudice and harsh criticism but you as I well as myself are living proof of it.

 

[Fatihah]

Why would someone choose their sexuality,what would be the motivation to do that IYO

Response: Lust.

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: Lust.

Why lust,Hetersexuals lust aswell its a Human trait,and anyway you would have to be attracted to someone to lust after them,why would someone choose to lust after somebody of the same sex unless they were already Gay.

 

[Fatihah]

Why lust,Hetersexuals lust aswell its a Human trait,and anyway you would have to be attracted to someone to lust after them,why would someone choose to lust after somebody of the same sex unless they were already Gay.

Response: It's lust that makes the person gay. Yes, lust is very natural and it is a human trait. When we say that homosexuality is "unnatural", it seems we first need to agree as to what is meant by "unnatural". Or atleast, how we use the term. By unnatural, I mean that it's not what nature intened, or it's not according to the purpose of nature.

For example, the purpose of feet would be to walk on rather than to use them to to grab. Surely, you can use them for that, but that's not the purpose of feet. So it is quite "unnatural" for someone to use their feet to grab and their hands to walk.

However, if by "natural", we mean, "relating" to nature, then homosexuality is in fact natural, because lust is natural.

But let's not get very technical in how we choose a word. If you say homosexuality is natural, then for the sake of arguing, I will agree because lust is in fact natural. But the issue is whether it is right or wrong and why Allah says it's wrong. The answer to that is because it's lust, not love. In islam, a relationship based on lust is wrong. Whether by the same sex or opposite sex. The reason is because lust requires the act when you show affection to receive affection. In other words, you are using the person. Whereas in love, you show affection for the joy of making someone happy. What you get in return is irrelevant.

So homosexuality is wrong because it comes from an act of lust, not love. It's not humanly possible to love the same sex in a sexual way. It's an act of lust. So the question now is whether it is in fact love, or lust? Now the debate begins.

 

[Commoner]

Response: It's lust that makes the person gay.

That's absurd. Heterosexuals don't "lust" for homosexual sex, how the hell would lust make you gay?!

Even if you assert that homosexual relationships are not based on love - lust still can't have been the reason for someone to have turned gay.

 

[Fatihah]

That's absurd. Heterosexuals don't "lust" for homosexual sex, how the hell would lust make you gay?!

Even if you assert that homosexual relationships are not based on love - lust still can't have been the reason for someone to have turned gay.

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

 

[England my lionheart]

Response: It's lust that makes the person gay. Yes, lust is very natural and it is a human trait. When we say that homosexuality is "unnatural", it seems we first need to agree as to what is meant by "unnatural". Or atleast, how we use the term. By unnatural, I mean that it's not what nature intened, or it's not according to the purpose of nature.

For example, the purpose of feet would be to walk on rather than to use them to to grab. Surely, you can use them for that, but that's not the purpose of feet. So it is quite "unnatural" for someone to use their feet to grab and their hands to walk.

However, if by "natural", we mean, "relating" to nature, then homosexuality is in fact natural, because lust is natural.

It would be good to get a Gay Forum member answer that but i would wager Love beats lust,i would also bet they would have known their sexuality quite early in their lives

But let's not get very technical in how we choose a word. If you say homosexuality is natural, then for the sake of arguing, I will agree because lust is in fact natural. But the issue is whether it is right or wrong and why Allah says it's wrong. The answer to that is because it's lust, not love. In islam, a relationship based on lust is wrong. Whether by the same sex or opposite sex. The reason is because lust requires the act when you show affection to receive affection. In other words, you are using the person. Whereas in love, you show affection for the joy of making someone happy. What you get in return is irrelevant.

So homosexuality is wrong because it comes from an act of lust, not love. It's not humanly possible to love the same sex in a sexual way. It's an act of lust. So the question now is whether it is in fact love, or lust? Now the debate begins.

Have you ever heard a Gay person say they are Gay because of lust,do Gay people marry because of lust,no i think not,its because they have the same feelings for their Partner as any Hetersexual does.

 

[MissAlice]

That's absurd. Heterosexuals don't "lust" for homosexual sex, how the hell would lust make you gay?!

Even if you assert that homosexual relationships are not based on love - lust still can't have been the reason for someone to have turned gay.

Maybe he's projecting his own lust for the same gender onto everyone else....:sarcastic

It would take someone who's lusted another of the same gender to make such a blunt assumption.

 

[Fatihah]

Maybe he's projecting his own lust for the same gender onto everyone else....:sarcastic

It would take someone who's lusted another of the same gender to make such a blunt assumption.

Response: To the contrary, it takes common sense. Whereas it's the lack thereof to say otherwise.

 

[Commoner]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof?

Fatihah, are you saying that there is something desirable in homosexuality? Something that a heterosexual could lust for?

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah, are you saying that there is something desirable in homosexuality? Something that a heterosexual could lust for?

Response: Not at all.

 

[Gharib]

Why would someone choose their sexuality,what would be the motivation to do that IYO

like the brother said, they don't suddenly wake up gay one day.

it's all got to do with their childhood. and when they grow up they realise they like men and not women. have you ever heard a grown man say that their homosexuality isn't natural or that they've been like that since they were little kids?

 

[Gharib]

Response: To the contrary, you seem to not grasp just how illogical your statement is. It's not like you've never heard of pedophiles, rapists, drug dealers, adulterers, prostitutes, etc. All of these are lifestlyes which people choose despite the harsh criticism they face in choosing such behavior. You yourself get criticized for your beliefs and arguments all the time. Proof of that is the fact that you just stated that you were called "Satan". I myself face the same criticism because I my religion of islam. So to say that it's a failed argument to say that someone would choose homosexuality because they would not want to face such prejudices and criticism it brings is the actual failed argument because not only do you know from the examples above that people do in fact choose behaviors which brings prejudice and harsh criticism but you as I well as myself are living proof of it.

the first muslims also chose to be muslims regardelss that the kafirs were killing, and torturing them. it was their choice to be muslims.

 

[Gharib]

Why lust,Hetersexuals lust aswell its a Human trait,and anyway you would have to be attracted to someone to lust after them,why would someone choose to lust after somebody of the same sex unless they were already Gay.

exactly, they are gay since childhood but don't realise it after growing up. you don't become gay overnight.

 

[Commoner]

Response: Not at all.

Then what would a heterosexual lust for that would turn him/her gay?

 

[Gharib]

Then what would a heterosexual lust for that would turn him/her gay?

didn't we already have this converstation? do you really want go through it once more?

 

[Commoner]

exactly, they are gay since childhood but don't realise it after growing up. you don't become gay overnight.

Wait, wait - so you're saying that children choose to be gay (since it's a "choice") and after that there is no more choice?