The west?

[Spiderman]

Some one recently mentioned the west dropping bombs and killing civilians.

Who is "the west"? What is "Western Civilization"?

Yes , I get what is typically being referred to, and my country being "the west", but there are so many countries that are just as west as my country, that are third world , impoverished countries where children huff glue, gas, and paint , to kill their hunger pains.

Can't we call that "Western Civilization"?

And other Western European countries, that qualify as "The West", are just as far west as countries in Africa where people don't even have well water, and spend hours hauling water daily from the river to their mud huts. Why can't we call that "the west", or "Western Civilization"??

I mean, if it's just as far west, why or why not is it western civilization?

 

[Spiderman]

Yes, people huff glue and gas in America, but we are not usually starving to death.

 

[Spiderman]

What I will say about the third world is, in the impoverished nations, often the suicide rate is lower.

I keep hearing from folks in real life, who have been to the third world, or read from the likes mother Teresa , (and this American Doctor who found more happiness among the poor starving people in Haiti, and others who live in the third world slums), the people smile more, are more loving, more friendly, more affectionate, get to know their neighbors better, and are more humble as a general rule.

I get that impression from the immigrants I meet from the third world as well.

 

[The Hammer]

Some one recently mentioned the west dropping bombs and killing civilians.

Who is "the west"? What is "Western Civilization"?

Yes , I get what is typically being referred to, and my country being "the west", but there are so many countries that are just as west as my country, that are third world , impoverished countries where children huff glue, gas, and paint , to kill their hunger pains.

Can't we call that "Western Civilization"?

And other Western European countries, that qualify as "The West", are just as far west as countries in Africa where people don't even have well water, and spend hours hauling water daily from the river to their mud huts. Why can't we call that "the west", or "Western Civilization"??

I mean, if it's just as far west, why or why not is it western civilization?

Western civilization refers to the art, literature, culture, and enduring ideas that emerged from the eastern Mediterranean basin in the centuries before the common era, that developed in myriad forms through the Middle Ages, and that ultimately took modern shape after the Renaissance.

Western Civilization.

 

[Spiderman]

Western civilization refers to the art, literature, culture, and enduring ideas that emerged from the eastern Mediterranean basin in the centuries before the common era, that developed in myriad forms through the Middle Ages, and that ultimately took modern shape after the Renaissance.

Western Civilization.

Yes, I understand.

Thank you.

It was a question I knew the answer to it.

But I just don't like it being called "The West" or "Western Civilization"! You see what I'm saying?

It isn't fair to the other civilizations that are just as far west, because they aren't included as "Western Civilization"!

Making a statement like "the west" just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, when so much of "the west" isn't actually "the west".

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes, I understand.

Thank you.

It was a question I knew the answer to it.

But I just don't like it being called "The West" or "Western Civilization"! You see what I'm saying?

It isn't fair to the other civilizations that are just as far west, because they aren't included as "Western Civilization"!

Making a statement like "the west" just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, when so much of "the west" isn't actually "the west".

What’s unfair about it, exactly?
The West isn’t a statement of superiority or indeed a denigration against other civilisations, art and literature. In fact those things from the East, Africa and Asia are becoming more and more accessible and celebrated

 

[Spiderman]

What’s unfair about it, exactly?
The West isn’t a statement of superiority or indeed a denigration against other civilisations, art and literature. In fact those things from the East, Africa and Asia are becoming more and more accessible and celebrated

Because it is NOT an accurate statement!

To say "the west" and not include so much of "the west", is simply a false picture, a false description, a false statement!

The choice of vocabulary is simply bad!

Plus, I keep hearing "this is why they hate the west, the west did this, the west is getting fatter and fatter, the death of western civilization, the west has lost it's morals" etc..

There is so much of "the west" that is not included in that choice of words, it isn't even funny. I simply don't like how it is so NOT accurate!

 

[SomeRandom]

Because it is NOT an accurate statement!

To say "the west" and not include so much of "the west", is simply a false picture, a false description, a false statement!

The choice of vocabulary is simply bad!

Plus, I keep hearing "this is why they hate the west, the west did this, the west is getting fatter and fatter, the death of western civilization, the west has lost it's morals" etc..

There is so much of "the west" that is not included in that choice of words, it isn't even funny. I simply don't like how it is so NOT accurate!

It’s not inaccurate, actually. Like what is inaccurate about it, exactly?
I’ll grant that the term is somewhat fluid and has changed somewhat. It does depend a lot on context for the most part. But it’s hardly inaccurate, since we created it for a specific purpose of identification and the identities have remained pretty much intact. Though the borders of what we consider the West has slightly changed somewhat over the centuries, usually due to a very big historical event.
(In particular WWII I think you’ll find.)

But it’s inaccurate to say, like the Myth of Mwindo is an example of “the West” since it’s an ancient oral folktale native to Africa (specifically the Nyanga people.) Whereas say Le Morte d’Arthur is a specific example of the west, since it specifically contributes to what we classify as the West. In this instance, culture and literature in particular. Hell I think saying like Anansi the Spider is anything other than African would be very insulting to the people of Africa since it’s theirs. It’s their culture, their pride and their example of rich folkloric history.
Shakespeare might have a proud tradition in India (for the sake of argument, I don’t know if that’s necessarily true, I think it is though) but he is specially thought of as Western. That’s not at all to diminish say the Maharabata, an Indian epic that is just as important as the Iliad, in terms of literary merit and contribution towards culture, though. (And far longer might I add. I think even Odyssey and Iliad combined is only like a fraction of the Maharabata.)

Now I will grant you that in the past “The West” was used in a superior fashion, to distinguish between differing cultures. But in fairness there wasn’t really an inherent usage of the term to invoke feelings of superiority. Well maybe prior to the 18/1900s it was, but not anymore really. But it’s not like terms like Developed Nations and Developing Nations, that have literally fallen out of use in academia because they are used specifically to invoke feelings of one culture/region being inherently further developed and therefore superior. Indeed any classicist would call you a snob for using the term “The West” in a similar fashion. And that’s quite the achievement, believe me

 

[Father Heathen]

"The West" has far more to do with cultural, economic, and social development than it does literal geographic location.

 

[Spiderman]

It’s not inaccurate, actually. Like what is inaccurate about it, exactly?
I’ll grant that the term is somewhat fluid and has changed somewhat. It does depend a lot on context for the most part. But it’s hardly inaccurate, since we created it for a specific purpose of identification and the identities have remained pretty much intact. Though the borders of what we consider the West has slightly changed somewhat over the centuries, usually due to a very big historical event.
(In particular WWII I think you’ll find.)

But it’s inaccurate to say, like the Myth of Mwindo is an example of “the West” since it’s an ancient oral folktale native to Africa (specifically the Nyanga people.) Whereas say Le Morte d’Arthur is a specific example of the west, since it specifically contributes to what we classify as the West. In this instance, culture and literature in particular. Hell I think saying like Anansi the Spider is anything other than African would be very insulting to the people of Africa since it’s theirs. It’s their culture, their pride and their example of rich folkloric history.
Shakespeare might have a proud tradition in India (for the sake of argument, I don’t know if that’s necessarily true, I think it is though) but he is specially thought of as Western. That’s not at all to diminish say the Maharabata, an Indian epic that is just as important as the Iliad, in terms of literary merit and contribution towards culture, though. (And far longer might I add. I think even Odyssey and Iliad combined is only like a fraction of the Maharabata.)

Now I will grant you that in the past “The West” was used in a superior fashion, to distinguish between differing cultures. But in fairness there wasn’t really an inherent usage of the term to invoke feelings of superiority. Well maybe prior to the 18/1900s it was, but not anymore really. But it’s not like terms like Developed Nations and Developing Nations, that have literally fallen out of use in academia because they are used specifically to invoke feelings of one culture/region being inherently further developed and therefore superior. Indeed any classicist would call you a snob for using the term “The West” in a similar fashion. And that’s quite the achievement, believe me

Im fine with most of what you said, but there is an entire continent beneath North America, with totally different culture, and often third world conditions. Why is that any less "the west", then North America?

It is a term that I believe misleads people. "The west", doesn't have so much to do with geographic location, so should not be identified as "the west"!

But you bring good tidings that there is no superiority complex! Cheers!

 

[SomeRandom]

Im fine with most of what you said, but there is an entire continent beneath North America, with totally different culture, and often third world conditions. Why is that any less "the west", then North America?

It is a term that I believe misleads people. "The west", doesn't have so much to do with geographic location, so should not be identified as "the west"!

But you bring good tidings that there is no superiority complex! Cheers!

Well, you are aware that the “West” is not nor not ever been strictly defined by geography alone, right?
It was about influences, empires specifically. (Though there were other factors, obviously.)
And fun fact empire lines fluctuated throughout the centuries
Also yeah all regions are different. No country is going to ever have a cohesive uniform culture. That’s just how societies work. Especially with all the historical trade routes and immigration that occurred throughout history in general

Just compare Northern England to the South. Completely different. That’s sort of par for the course

 

[RestlessSoul]

Everywhere is west of somewhere. And the sun always sets there, wherever you are.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, you are aware that the “West” is not nor not ever been strictly defined by geography alone, right?
It was about influences, empires specifically. (Though there were other factors, obviously.)
And fun fact empire lines fluctuated throughout the centuries
Also yeah all regions are different. No country is going to ever have a cohesive uniform culture. That’s just how societies work. Especially with all the historical trade routes and immigration that occurred throughout history in general

Just compare Northern England to the South. Completely different. That’s sort of par for the course

That is cool that you are familiar with African folktales or literature and art that is not considered coming from "Western Civilization"!

 

[SomeRandom]

That is cool that you are familiar with African folktales or literature and art that is not considered coming from "Western Civilization"!

Yeah I’m a bit of a sucker for myths/folklore/art and my favourite thing as a nerd is to collect folktales and myths from around the world.
My personal fave is the African folk hero, Anansi the Spider and his various mischievous adventures. I think he’s sometimes considered a god of knowledge. Highly recommend his tales.
Though Journey to the West is also pretty awesome

I think this is due to me using ancient folklore to connect with my own cultural heritage as a tot (Indian.) Having grown up Aussie. So I kind of understand the importance of exploring beyond the Western horizon, as it were

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah I’m a bit of a sucker for myths/folklore/art and my favourite thing as a nerd is to collect folktales and myths from around the world.
My personal fave is the African folk hero, Anansi the Spider and his various mischievous adventures. I think he’s sometimes considered a god of knowledge. Highly recommend his tales.
Though Journey to the West is also pretty awesome

I think this is due to me using ancient folklore to connect with my own cultural heritage as a tot (Indian.) Having grown up Aussie. So I kind of understand the importance of exploring beyond the Western horizon, as it were

If you could share what you got out of Anansi and the Spider that would be appreciated. I will look it up.

It is interesting you mentioned being Indian, because staff woke me up at 6:00 am to ship me to a medical facility for a EKG , only I had no appointment, so it was a total stupid mistake.

Most interesting and only redeemable quality of it all was the return cab diver had Indian Hindu artwork , and Indian writing hanging from mirror , and in vehicle.

I have some strong devotion to Nafisa Joseph, deceased Indian actress and supermodel, who spoke to me through many signs, locutions, and coincidences (I call her Saint Joseph), and I had some cool things happen with Gandhi, like receive a pin about him on the beginning of 9 night to Durga festival.

On October 2, during that same 9 night festival, I google Gandhi, shocked to learn his birthday is October 2, what are the odds?? Plus I'm devoted fanatically to Kali and Durga.

And into Cobra worship. So, have had so many other experiences linked to Hinduism, I call India "the Holy Land"!

 

[SomeRandom]

If you could share what you got out of Anansi and the Spider that would be appreciated. I will look it up.

It is interesting you mentioned being Indian, because staff woke me up at 6:00 am to ship me to a medical facility for a EKG , only I had no appointment, so it was a total stupid mistake.

Most interesting and only redeemable quality of it all was the return cab diver had Indian Hindu artwork , and Indian writing hanging from mirror , and in vehicle.

I have some strong devotion to Nafisa Joseph, deceased Indian actress and supermodel, who spoke to me through many signs, locutions, and coincidences (I call her Saint Joseph), and I had some cool things happen with Gandhi, like receive a pin about him on the beginning of 9 night to Durga festival.

On October 2, during that same 9 night festival, I google Gandhi, shocked to learn his birthday is October 2, what are the odds?? Plus I'm devoted fanatically to Kali and Durga.

And into Cobra worship. So, have had so many other experiences linked to Hinduism, I call India "the Holy Land"!

I guess I found a fun Loki style deity/folk hero to read about. And got to appreciate another culture’s ideas on what makes a character captivating. That was interesting
It was also interesting from a sort of “anthropological” approach. Seeing the beats of classical mythology and super powerful deity like figures that are actually shared across cultures and eras. You can quite easily get a lot of parallels between ancient cultures, their deities, their folklores and sometimes even their rituals. Obviously their values and ethics does tend to be slightly different