The witchhunt continues...

[icehorse]

think we should side with the family and their doctors who know much more about the teen in question and the medical pros & cons. I posted the Mayo Clinic's analysis, and this procedure has been performed for multiple reasons. If the right's reasoning was authentic, then they should come out against all hormone suppressant usage, but they haven't done that. So that's not the issue. Instead, it's the political and religious right's refusal to accept gays and transgenders both spiritually and legally equals. I don't care what they believe as they have that right, but don't write this into laws that clearly discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I infer from your post that you think all medical / psychiatric issues should be handled the same way?

Hormones almost always have negative side effects. For some conditions, the side effects are better than the alternative. But this is not always the case!

 

[fantome profane]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I infer from your post that you think all medical / psychiatric issues should be handled the same way?

That is exactly why these kind of issues should not and cannot be legislated. Each situation is unique, and needs a medical professional who both understands the condition and knows the patient and in the case of minors a parent or guardian who cares about the child. The government can only make one size fits all laws.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The legions are having second thoughts. This is not just my opinion.

If you want to discuss knee surgeries, start a new thread and I'll be happy to debate you there

1% doesn't count as legions having second thoughts.

How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning?

Lawmakers often cite concerns about young people regretting irreversible body-altering transgender medical treatment, but studies suggest regret is uncommon.

apnews.com

But I bring up knee replacement because that number is way higher (20%).

Attain Health

www.hellahealth.com

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We aren't talking about "other reasons".

Longer treatment with puberty-delaying medication in transgender youth leads to lower bone mineral density

A longer duration of treatment with puberty-delaying medications among transgender youth is associated with lower bone mineral density, according to a new study that will be presented Sunday at ENDO 2022, the Endocrine Society’s annual meeting in Atlanta, Ga.

www.endocrine.org

The Effect of Puberty Blockers on the Accrual of Bone Mass

Suppressing puberty in children suffering from gender dysphoria — by administering Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone agonist (GnRHa) — entails several known risks. One is that patients could “end with a decreased bone density, which is associated with a high risk of osteoporosis” (Delemarre-van de...

www.segm.org

Study: Effects of puberty-blockers can last a lifetime

Data debunk a common rationale for giving kids transgender treatment

wng.org

Good thing we know this now so we can begin correcting that.
And good job listening. Puberty blockers or none, the changes last a lifetime. Lets let the real experts decide what's best.

 

[icehorse]

Lets let the real experts decide what's best.

And let's remember that this has become a very political issue. There are ideologues on both sides. Sadly, the pro-extreme-interventions side of the argument has it's share of ideologues.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And let's remember that this has become a very political issue.

Oh well.

 

[metis]

Correct me if I'm wrong. I infer from your post that you think all medical / psychiatric issues should be handled the same way?

Nope. My area is science, although not medicine per se, thus "one size fits all" almost never works.

 

[SomeRandom]

Indeed, this mirrors thoughts I expressed a few posts back.

I would amend this a bit though and say that probably MOST of what we read is written by people with agendas. So we have to be able to look for factual claims and assess those when we're reading.

I wholeheartedly agree
I think critical thinking and fact checking everything we read online (against actual reputable sources) should be our automatic go to move. Especially concerning topics that have gotten very political

I’ll admit that I’m quite often too lazy (and maybe a bit too drunk lol)
And sometimes it’s hard for me to do with “scientific topics” since I am quite illiterate in that sphere. Usually just relying on folks better than me to translate the data to me.

But we should be careful

 

[SomeRandom]

They weren't claiming to be a biological cat were they?

No one is claiming to be a biological cat. Or to be from a different species.

Although back in the day, biology was (incorrectly) used to suggest and then justify why blacks and whites shouldn’t share facilities.

Just saying

 

[icehorse]

I think we should side with the family and their doctors who know much more about the teen in question and the medical pros & cons. I posted the Mayo Clinic's analysis, and this procedure has been performed for multiple reasons. If the right's reasoning was authentic, then they should come out against all hormone suppressant usage, but they haven't done that. So that's not the issue. Instead, it's the political and religious right's refusal to accept gays and transgenders both spiritually and legally equals. I don't care what they believe as they have that right, but don't write this into laws that clearly discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.

It's not like you to let identity politics do your thinking for you.

So what reasoning processes are your opponents using that you think would lead them to want to ban ALL hormones?

You've said you don't think things are one size fits all. (I agree). But why would you underestimate smart people on the right and imagine they would take a one size fits all approach?

 

[metis]

It's not like you to let identity politics do your thinking for you.

I don't, so how in the world did you get that from what I posted?

So what reasoning processes are your opponents using that you think would lead them to want to ban ALL hormones?

You might want to reword the above.

But why would you underestimate smart people on the right and imagine they would take a one size fits all approach?

Some do, and some on the left do, and some independents do. I'm not stereotyping any group. However, my mistake was to not include words like "most" or "many", which I'm normally careful to do, so I am guilty as charged.

What's my sentence?

 

[icehorse]

I don't, so how in the world did you get that from what I posted?

You ascribed certain ways of thinking to "the right". That seems like an IP orientation, no?

You might want to reword the above

I'm really trying to parse that post of yours. Maybe it would be better if I asked you to reword it?

Some do, and some on the left do, and some independents do. I'm not stereotyping any group. However, my mistake was to not include words like "most" or "many", which I'm normally careful to do, so I am guilty as charged.

What's my sentence?

Ha! no guilt, i'm just trying to understand what you wrote

 

[We Never Know]

No one is claiming to be a biological cat. Or to be from a different species.

Although back in the day, biology was (incorrectly) used to suggest and then justify why blacks and whites shouldn’t share facilities.

Just saying

Where this all started....

The witchhunt continues...

I find it remarkable people still haven't realized nature is messy and sloppy, and black and white only exists to what can see them. And for all we know, it still laughs at us when we realize we know less than we did we tried to figure it out. It laughed at so hard that it dwarves anything we...

www.religiousforums.com

 

[Kenny]

Not at all. Sex and Gender are different. Sex is XY or XX. Gender is a cultural presentation of ones feelings towards their own Identity.

That is a modern interpretation. Interpretations and meanings change like the word "grass" in the 1970's but biologically speaking, there are the same

sex | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible enough to be used by anyone.

www.etymonline.com

sex (n.)




xus "a sex, state of being either male or female, gender," a word of uncertain origin. "Commonly taken with seco as division or 'half' of the race" [Tucker], which would connect it to secare"to divide or cut" (see section (n.)).

search
gender (n.)

c. 1300, "kind, sort, class, a class or kind of persons or things sharing certain traits," from Old French gendre, genre "kind, species; character; gender" (12c., Modern French genre), from stem of Latin genus (genitive generis) "race, stock, family; kind, rank, order; species," also "(male or female) sex," from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.

So...

FALSE

 

[The Hammer]

That is a modern interpretation. Interpretations and meanings change like the word "grass" in the 1970's but biologically speaking, there are the same

sex | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible enough to be used by anyone.

www.etymonline.com

sex (n.)




xus "a sex, state of being either male or female, gender," a word of uncertain origin. "Commonly taken with seco as division or 'half' of the race" [Tucker], which would connect it to secare"to divide or cut" (see section (n.)).

search
gender (n.)

c. 1300, "kind, sort, class, a class or kind of persons or things sharing certain traits," from Old French gendre, genre "kind, species; character; gender" (12c., Modern French genre), from stem of Latin genus (genitive generis) "race, stock, family; kind, rank, order; species," also "(male or female) sex," from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.

So...

FALSE

Yup.

Life and experiences change. Who knew we adjusted our views based of experience. Weird.

 

[We Never Know]

That is a modern interpretation. Interpretations and meanings change like the word "grass" in the 1970's but biologically speaking, there are the same

sex | Search Online Etymology Dictionary

The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible enough to be used by anyone.

www.etymonline.com

sex (n.)




xus "a sex, state of being either male or female, gender," a word of uncertain origin. "Commonly taken with seco as division or 'half' of the race" [Tucker], which would connect it to secare"to divide or cut" (see section (n.)).

search
gender (n.)

c. 1300, "kind, sort, class, a class or kind of persons or things sharing certain traits," from Old French gendre, genre "kind, species; character; gender" (12c., Modern French genre), from stem of Latin genus (genitive generis) "race, stock, family; kind, rank, order; species," also "(male or female) sex," from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.

So...

FALSE

One thing IMO that is being overlooked is bathrooms were seperated by sex, not gender.

 

[Kenny]

Good thing we know this now so we can begin correcting that.
And good job listening. Puberty blockers or none, the changes last a lifetime. Lets let the real experts decide what's best.

wrong. - let's wait until they are adults

 

[The Hammer]

wrong. - let's wait until they are adults

Why should we wait until their physical bodies are incapable of adjusting to new hormones? Please be scientific.

Edit: While sex is based on biology, the term gender was developed by social scientists to refer to cultural roles based on these biological categories.

 

[The Hammer]

"Sex refers to the anatomical and other biological differences between females and males that are determined at the moment of conception and develop in the womb and throughout childhood and adolescence. Females, of course, have two X chromosomes, while males have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome."

12.2: Foundations of the Anthropology of Gender

Although the terms sex and gender are sometimes used interchangeably and do in fact complement each other, they nonetheless refer to different aspects of what it means to be a …

socialsci.libretexts.org

 

[Kenny]

Why should we wait until their physical bodies are incapable of adjusting to new hormones? Please be scientific

I noted multiple sites on how it ruins the bone density creating multiple problems later in life.

Effects are the same whether for changing the body or treating cancer.

Hormone Therapy Short- and Long-term Side Effects | UPMC

Side effects from hormone therapy are unique to each patient. Find out more about the long and short term side effects of hormone therapy.

hillman.upmc.com

Short-term Side Effects of Hormone Therapy for Cancer​

Breast tenderness or pain Decreased sex drive Nausea or vomiting Erectile dysfunction Fatigue

Hot flashes Menstrual changes Mood changes Sweating Vaginal dryness or discharge

Long-term Side Effects of Hormone Therapy for Cancer​

Blood clots Brittle bones Eyesight changes

Increased cardiovascular risks Memory and mood problems Weight gain

Testosterone therapy: Potential benefits and risks as you age

Testosterone therapy — Explore the potential benefits and risks of increasing your testosterone level.

www.mayoclinic.org

What are the risks of testosterone therapy for normal aging?​

Testosterone therapy has various risks, including:

• Worsening sleep apnea — a potentially serious sleep disorder in which breathing repeatedly stops and starts.
• Causing acne or other skin reactions.
• Stimulating noncancerous growth of the prostate (benign prostatic hyperplasia) and growth of existing prostate cancer.
• Enlarging breasts.
• Limiting sperm production or causing testicles to shrink.
• Stimulating too much red blood cell production, which contributes to the increased risk of forming a blood clot. A clot could break loose, travel through your bloodstream and lodge in your lungs, blocking blood flow (pulmonary embolism).

Also, some research shows that testosterone therapy can increase your risk of heart disease. More research is needed.\

9 Side Effects Of Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT)

Hormone Replacement Therapy has a lot of side effects like digestive issues, unusual bleeding, and breast cancer. Be sure to check before undergoing one.

curejoy.com

Testosterone Side Effects: Common, Severe, Long Term

Learn about the side effects of testosterone, from common to rare, for consumers and healthcare professionals.

www.drugs.com

Let's wait until they are old enough to understand what they are doing with the rest of their lives.