The witchhunt continues...

[fantome profane]

If you think that the medical industry is NOT above reproach then do you advocate doing nothing?

I will ask you again, what do you advocate doing?

Yes, I will question authority, particularly political authority. I question cops, I question political leaders, I question bureaucrats. I have no reason to think that a cop is anymore knowledgeable than anyone else, and lots of evidence that they often are not.

But I am not going to go around giving medical advice or countermanding medical advice no matter how many "hours of research" I have done.

I will make medical decisions for myself, even if they go against medical advice, but I will not make medical decisions for others.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The apologists on this very forum say that. Your partners in apology say that.

Evidence?

 

[icehorse]

I will ask you again, what do you advocate doing?

Yes, I will question authority, particularly political authority. I question cops, I question political leaders, I question bureaucrats. I have no reason to think that a cop is anymore knowledgeable than anyone else, and lots of evidence that they often are not.

But I am not going to go around giving medical advice or countermanding medical advice no matter how many "hours of research" I have done.

I will make medical decisions for myself, even if they go against medical advice, but I will not make medical decisions for others.

I advocate questioning authority.

When you hear extraordinary claims, I advocate demanding extraordinary evidence.

I advocate really thinking about what you're apologizing for.

I advocate learning to notice when you're parroting dogma.

 

[icehorse]

Evidence?

read the threads

 

[fantome profane]

I advocate questioning authority.

When you hear extraordinary claims, I advocate demanding extraordinary evidence.

I advocate really thinking about what you're apologizing for.

I advocate learning to notice when you're parroting dogma.

Great, you do just that. But allow others to do it as well, and allow them to come to their own conclusions, even if they differ from yours. And allow them to make their own medical decisions.

And don’t expect people to care about your medical opinion.

 

[icehorse]

Great, you do just that. But allow others to do it as well, and allow them to come to their own conclusions, even if they differ from yours.

And here I thought we were on a debate forum, discussing and debating important issues

And allow them to make their own medical decisions.

Goes without saying, but as you've said, might be a good idea to question authority a bit.

And don’t expect people to care about your medical opinion.

I don't. I'm just hoping they'll notice dogma, question authority (and perhaps remember good old common sense).

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Goes without saying, but as you've said, might be a good idea to question authority a bit.

I don't. I'm just hoping they'll notice dogma, question authority (and perhaps remember good old common sense).

There's a time and place to question authority, but oftentimes, it can be taken to extremes too. I'd say if someone starts referring to medical experts, etc, as the "elites" and not listening to them for that reason (not saying you are), then it's already passed the point of going too far.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

read the threads

I do. You made an accusation, you need to be able to back it up and support the claim.
Now, again, where is your evidence? "Read the threads" doesn't do it, especially in light of a counter claim.

 

[fantome profane]

And here I thought we were on a debate forum, discussing and debating important issues



Goes without saying, but as you've said, might be a good idea to question authority a bit.



I don't. I'm just hoping they'll notice dogma, question authority (and perhaps remember good old common sense).

You are debating other people’s medical choices, even their basic human rights.

I don’t know if you have noticed from my posts, but I have never argued for or against any medical treatment for gender dysphoria. I am not qualified to do so.

But I am familiar with the Dunning Kruger effect.

 

[icehorse]

I do. You made an accusation, you need to be able to back it up and support the claim.
Now, again, where is your evidence? "Read the threads" doesn't do it, especially in light of a counter claim.

I have provided many links. For a small fee, I will find them for you

 

[icehorse]

There's a time and place to question authority, but oftentimes, it can be taken to extremes too. I'd say if someone starts referring to medical experts, etc, as the "elites" and not listening to them for that reason (not saying you are), then it's already passed the point of going too far.

This topic is about extreme interventions. It's an extraordinary topic. The evidence ought to be scrutinized over and over again, because these "cures" are so outrageous.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

This topic is about extreme interventions. It's an extraordinary topic. The evidence ought to be scrutinized over and over again, because these "cures" are so outrageous.

Yet it's arrogant to think we're better authorities on the matter, or can determine what's medically sound, better than trained medical experts.

 

[icehorse]

You are debating other people’s medical choices, even their basic human rights.

If doctors started prescribing thalidomide again, would you say we should remain quiet?

As far as human rights go, there are many restrictions we place on minors. Are those all human rights issues?

 

[icehorse]

Yet it's arrogant to think we're better authorities on the matter, or can determine what's medically sound, better than trained medical experts.

Ok, so I'll ask you the same questions: Do you always think doctors are correct? Would you ever seek a second opinion?

As for being "better authorities", I'm not saying that. What I AM saying is that there are extraordinary claims underlying these extreme interventions, and - as always - extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence.

If public officials announced that soon they'd be adding cholera to your water supplies, wouldn't you want to see extraordinary evidence that that would be safe? Or would you just "trust the experts"?

 

[fantome profane]

If doctors started prescribing thalidomide again, would you say we should remain quiet?

As far as human rights go, there are many restrictions we place on minors. Are those all human rights issues?

What do you think the scientific community would say about that?

What restrictions on minors are you thinking about? And what does the scientific community say about those restrictions?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Ok, so I'll ask you the same questions: Do you always think doctors are correct?

While the answer is "no", I think pursuing a medical professional still beats armchairing. Especially with all the dangerous misinformation on the internet, etc.

Would you ever seek a second opinion?

Yes, but it would be from another doctor.

What I AM saying is that there are extraordinary claims underlying these extreme interventions, and - as always - extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence.

I don't even agree that the claims are extraordinary. They're just different than some of the dogma people have been fed to believe in the past. It's easy to get cozy to believe that X is Y without proof, but it's a whole other matter that once you find out X is Z, to continue to believe X is Y either without proof or by following older studies and "schools of thought" which had their own flaws.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have provided many links. For a small fee, I will find them for you

Im not amused. You've done nothing but dodge a simple request for evidence that supports your accusation. You've failed to furnish it.

 

[icehorse]

Im not amused. You've done nothing but dodge a simple request for evidence that supports your accusation. You've failed to furnish it.

I have to be amused by you. I'm not your minion. I've provided the links, mostly I think you've ignored them.

If I recall correctly (but I might be remembering a different poster), you didn't like the links because some of the authors were advocates? When I asked you to speak to the factual claims, I got crickets.

 

[icehorse]

I don't even agree that the claims are extraordinary.

I think the claim that "castrating minors saves lives" is extraordinary. It goes against all common sense and experience. It ignores long term consequences. I'm not saying that it's absolutely not true. But it IS an extraordinary claim.

 

[icehorse]

While the answer is "no", I think pursuing a medical professional still beats armchairing. Especially with all the dangerous misinformation on the internet, etc.

What I've advocated for over and over again is that we engage our critical thinking skills. Kind of the opposite of arm-chairing.