The Word

[Clear]

John 1:1,14 cannot be taken in isolation. Other scriptures show a prehuman Jesus who was more than God's thoughts and was a living being.

I very much agree with Brian2 on his historical point that early Judeo-Christianity believed the Messiah existed as a personage prior to his Birth, who was both WITH God the Father and who also played an integral role in administrating and accomplishing much of what was going on in the time period prior to his incarnation at birth (and even administrated much of what was going on prior to and during the creation of the material world we now inhabit).

Kuddos to you @Brian2 for reminding us of this important historical point.

Clear
ειτωακδρω

 

[rrobs]

1Cor 1:10,

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.​

Beseech: ask (someone) urgently and fervently to do something; implore; entreat. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=beseech+means'

I agree that Paul was not "hoping" they would be of the same mind. He was asking them to be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I believe unity (as opposed to division) is a laudable goal, but I still believe that Paul was overly optimistic because this could never have been the case, given human nature AND the way the Bible was written. lending itself to so many different interpretations of the same verses.

Everything Paul wrote was at the behest of God, so it is not just Paul's plea that we think the same thing. It is actually God's desire, so if there is over optimism it would be on God's part.

On the one hand, I agree with you that it is not likely we will go from 40,000 denominations to one anytime soon. But on the other hand I still think we could put a little more effort into the project. Maybe whittle it down to a dozen or so denominations? I mean, 40,000 is a bit overboard. At least in my mind it is.

The good news: We will all speak the same thing when Jesus comes to gather us together in the clouds, so God's optimism will be satisfied when it's all over.

Take care

 

[Trailblazer]

Everything Paul wrote was at the behest of God, so it is not just Paul's plea that we think the same thing. It is actually God's desire, so if there is over optimism it would be on God's part.

So you believe that God communicated to Paul? Is there any basis for that belief in the scriptures?

On the one hand, I agree with you that it is not likely we will go from 40,000 denominations to one anytime soon. But on the other hand I still think we could put a little more effort into the project. Maybe whittle it down to a dozen or so denominations? I mean, 40,000 is a bit overboard. At least in my mind it is.

I fully agree that's too many.

The good news: We will all speak the same thing when Jesus comes to gather us together in the clouds, so God's optimism will be satisfied when it's all over.

I assume you believe that the same man Jesus is going to return from heaven.
Do you believe that the physical body of Jesus is alive in heaven?
Where do you think heaven is located?

How do you envision that 'gathering together in the clouds' taking place? Do you believe that all the Christians will "literally" be gathered together in the actual clouds in the sky?
How do you believe that will accomplish the goal of all the Christians speaking the same thing?

 

[Trailblazer]

(Jn 14:26) relates to each and every scripture which Paul wrote.

That's how they remembered the words of Jesus they wrote in the epistles.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I have a completely different interpretation of that verse.
I believe that Jesus was a Comforter because Jesus brought the Holy Spirit.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which comforts people.
I believe that Jesus sent another Comforter from the Father, a man who was the return of the Spirit of Christ who brought the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[Trailblazer]

Peter reveals who that prophet was, when in Acts 3: 12; in reference to the man Jesus, Peter says; “For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will send you a prophet just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc.”

So do you believe that Jesus was a prophet, as Moses said he would send?
Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Did the people of his day believe that the man Jesus was some God, who had been born of a virgin? Of course not, the Jews who lived in the day of Jesus, knew that God had said to Moses that he would choose a man from among the Israelites and send him to speak in his name, and the people of his day knew that HE was the man that God had chosen from among the Israelites and sent to speak in his name, when on his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, they cried out: “BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.”

I believe that Jesus was born of a virgin but I do not believe that Jesus was God incarnated in the flesh, because I do not believe that God can become flesh. Rather, I believe that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The following excerpt from an article explains the difference between an incarnation and a Manifestation of God.

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.

The Christian concept of the Trinity arose out of the need to explain statements such as these. The earliest Christians tended to be "binitarian," that is, they stressed the Father and the Son. The third person of the Trinity was added because of the experience of the Spirit in Christian worship and in order to explain many doxologies and expressions used in worship that included the Holy Spirit…”

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings​

 

[rrobs]

So you believe that God communicated to Paul? Is there any basis for that belief in the scriptures?

Pretty much the first verse in every church Epistle. Then there are several other places.

Eph 3:3,

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
​

Gal 1:11-12,

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.​

I assume you believe that the same man Jesus is going to return from heaven.

Yes. It's what keeps me going.

Do you believe that the physical body of Jesus is alive in heaven?

Acts 1:9,

And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.​

Where do you think heaven is located?

Where the birds are (not to be confused with where the girls are).

It is also used to describe God's dwelling place and a few other things. I've not really studied it that much, so I'm limited as to what I can say. I do know it's not where we're going to be sitting on a cloud and play a harp for eternity. The scriptures say we will be with Jesus and he will be on the new earth. I think I'd rather have some kind of life in a recreated earth instead of playing the harp all day long forever.

How do you envision that 'gathering together in the clouds' taking place? Do you believe that all the Christians will "literally" be gathered together in the actual clouds in the sky?

1 Thess 4:16-17,

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

I don't see a problem with taking that for what it says. Making something like that figurative opens the door for all sorts of ideas which only exacerbates division. If we can't just read what it says and confess it as written, then we will indeed be divided. It's like the Sunday school circle where the teacher says, "OK let's see what you all think about Jesus coming again. Johnny, what is your opinion? How about your opinion Mary?"

How do you believe that will accomplish the goal of all the Christians speaking the same thing?

Believing the scriptures instead of tradition. Maybe we could start with something Clement (supposedly the first Pope) said.

1 Clem. 5:4 There was Peter who by reason of unrighteous jealousy endured not one not one but many labors, and thus having borne his testimony went to his appointed place of glory.

1 Clem. 5:6 having taught righteousness unto the whole world and having reached the farthest bounds of the West; and when he had borne his testimony before the rulers, so he departed from the world and went unto the holy place, having been found a notable pattern of patient endurance.

1 Clem. 6:2 By reason of jealousy women being persecuted, after that they had suffered cruel and unholy insults as Danaids and Dircae, safely reached the goal in the race of faith, and received a noble reward, feeble though they were in body.
​

It would appear that Clement sides with the devil in Genesis 3:4 instead of God in Genesis 2:17. God said we die, that we go to the grave. The devil, Clement, and most of the orthodox church say we go to an appointed place of glory, a holy place, a noble reward. God, on the other hand, calls death an enemy. I think pretty much any eulogy for the dead includes a reference to them being with God in heaven. It's just not true and that one lie leads to many others.

Revelation (and a few other places) speak of two resurrections. If everybody was already up and ostensibly alive in heaven or hell, why would we need any resurrection at all?

The dead being alive leads to many other errors. If Christendom could just believe the simplicity of what God said in Genesis 2:17, I think we'd get much closer to a unified front.

 

[The Anointed]

So do you believe that Jesus was a prophet, as Moses said he would send?
Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

I believe that Jesus was born of a virgin but I do not believe that Jesus was God incarnated in the flesh, because I do not believe that God can become flesh. Rather, I believe that Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. The following excerpt from an article explains the difference between an incarnation and a Manifestation of God.

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.

The Christian concept of the Trinity arose out of the need to explain statements such as these. The earliest Christians tended to be "binitarian," that is, they stressed the Father and the Son. The third person of the Trinity was added because of the experience of the Spirit in Christian worship and in order to explain many doxologies and expressions used in worship that included the Holy Spirit…”

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings​

As to your opening question; "So do you believe that Jesus was a prophet, as Moses said he would send?" The answer is 'Yes.'

So you are one of the millions who have been deceived by the lies of the worthless shepherd that God raised up in the land in the fourth century, after he who had filled his servant Jesus with his spirit, was paid the majestic wage of thirty pieces of silver, as revealed by the prophet Zechariah 12: 11-17;

And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Do you know who claims to sit in the throne of Christ, and even claims to be Christ in the flesh and the Shepherd of God’s people


Oh you shepherd of the darkness, who claim God sent you out
And even though we know that’s true, that fact I wouldn’t flout
For God commanded Zechariah, “Throw my wages ‘cross the floor,
Those thirty bits of silver, for I’ll guide this flock no more
A worthless shepherd now I’ll raise to guide this stubborn flock
And he will be a useless one, of him I’ll take no stock
For he’ll not feed my little ones, nor search for them that’s lost
But he eats the meat of the fattest sheep. And their hooves? He tears them off
That worthless shepherd, he is doomed for abandoning my flock
His power, will I destroy by war, his arm will wither dry, then drop
And his right eye will I turn Blind, that’s why he’s never seen
The passage where I speak of him, Zechariah eleven—twelve to seventeen.


Matthew, whose gospel was originally written in Hebrew, states that the birth of Jesus came about in order to make the words of the prophet (Isaiah) come true.

Do you know what the words of Isaiah were, concerning that event?

To be continued.

 

[The Anointed]

Continued from post #127.

The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary).

The ‘Son of Man’ who is the Lord God our savior, did live in his earthly host body, from the day He was baptized until the day that he gave up the spirit on the cross, crying out. “My God, My God, why have you abandoned me?” As our savior, who can never die, departed from his chosen Heir and successor, and the graves of the saints were opened, which spirits of the righteous had been gathered to him, who, at the age of 365 had been carried to God and had been anointed as the heir and successor to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and translated from a corruptible body of matter into a glorious body of brilliant light, in order that he should never experience death.

But he could cease to be an individual entity, by releasing the spirits of those saint, who. three days after the man Jesus had been crucified, came out of their graves and entered the holy city and revealed themselves to many as the risen Christ, (The Anointed one.)

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 (In days---A calendar year: the one-year old sacrificial Lamb of God.) and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; “By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face.

[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

And the Most-High, said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word." Enoch, was the first to be released.

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God,

They were not the words of Jesus, but the words of the God of Abraham , Isaac, and Jacob, ‘The Son of Man’ and only begotten son of the Most High, who said to Moses; ----“I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. And whoever will not give heed to MY WORDS which he will speak in MY NAME, I will surely punish.”

To be continued, when we return from town. Time permitting and God willing.

 

[chinu]

Surely you have heard that if a tree falls in the forest, without an observer being present there is only the silent shock waves traveling out from the points of impact, it is only when a created ear is present, into which those silent shock waves enter and strike the ear drum and are them converted to electric impulses, which are sent to the brain, where those silent shock waves are translated as 'SOUND.'

The “Sound” that which am talking about has nothing to do with ear drums. This sound is inside the brain and becomes louder and louder as one concentrate on it.

 

[chinu]

I understand what you are saying, but I myself have not heard any sound inside of myself.

Take care.

Okay

 

[The Anointed]

According to this article, http://www.sources.li/HALAH.pdf, the Jews were deported by the Assyrians to the Volga region in Russia, not India. Also to the land of the Medes.



But this is going to be inhabited by people with spiritual bodies (1 Cor 15) so won't be anything like the current universe.


In scriptural terms, this would amount to gnosticism (i.e. the promotion of speculative knowledge or rather just speculation itself over biblical teachings). The bible has to be doctrinally self-interpreting. I won't allow foreign elements to interpret its doctrine.



I'll admit the apocrypha and anything else from the Jew, but Christ did say "Salvation is from the Jews" Jn 4:22.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.

These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.

Our zone, called a braneworld [the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane] could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld. Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy.

Because three-dimensional time as we know it, does not exist prior to the Big Bang: from the return of the universe to the supposedly infinitely hot, infinitely dense and infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next Big Bang when three dimensional space and time would begin, it would appear that no time had elapsed, thus [As I believe] the erroneous Big Bounce theory.

I would rather a theory which states that there are many galactic clusters [universes] out there within the eternal and boundless cosmos, each cluster=universe in its own position in Space-time, consisting of billions of Galaxies falling inward toward a Great Abyss, Black Hole, or Bottomless Pit, (The Great Gatherer) where it is torn to pieces Molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and reconverted into the electromagnetic energy from which they were created and accelerated along the dark worm hole to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that liquid like Electromagnetic energy is spewed out in the trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the eternal and boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy a new universe is created, or rather, the old universe is resurrected, to continue on in its eternal process of evolution.

 

[The Anointed]

Continued from post #131.

Go out side tonight and look at the light coming from Galaxies that are tens of billions of light years from yourself, but do those galaxies exist today?

If they had been devoured by their central 'Black Hole' two billion years ago, then you will have to wait for another two billion years for the light that preceded from them, to go out.

Enoch, from a previous world that was destroyed by water, is the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and was anointed as his successor, who was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, beyond which, there was nothing.

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere metres.

According to general relativity, the gravitational collapse of a sufficiently compact mass forms a singular Schwarzschild black hole. In the Einstein–Cartan–Sciama–Kibble theory of gravity, however, it forms a regular Einstein–Rosen bridge.

The gravitational collapse of a single star such as the minor star of our solar system, can only form a White Dwarf, the gravitational collapse of bigger stars can create a neutron star, or a Black Hole, depending on its mass, but not necessarily a Worm Hole.

A worm Hole could theoretically be used as a method of sending information or travellers through space, unfortunately, physical matter which includes humans journeying through the space tunnels would appear to be an impossibility as there are strong indications that material objects travelling through a worm hole is forbidden by the law of physics.

But now that it has been discovered that Physical matter is but an illusion, and all is, but the eternal energy, that can never be created and never be destroyed, perhaps one day new technology may develop a way to teleport bodies of energy along light beams and reconstruct them to their original form, with no damage done.

I have no doubt that during the thousand years of peace, this will be achieved, and when Satan and his troops, attack the camp of God's people before the heavenly fire incinerates all physical life forms on earth as revealed in Zephaniah 1: 2-3, the camp of God's people will be empty.

Zephaniah 1: 2-3; The LORD said, “I am going to destroy everything on earth, 3all human beings and animals, birds and fish. I will bring about the downfall of the wicked. I will destroy the whole human race, and no survivors will be left. I, the LORD, have spoken.

Verse 18; On the day when the LORD shows his fury, not even all their silver and gold will save them. The whole earth will be destroyed by the fire of his anger. He will put an end — a sudden end — to everyone who lives on earth. (To everyone who lives on earth being the operative sentence.)

From the Book of Enoch the prophet 108: 11-13; “And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number.”

Wormholes may not only connect two separate regions within the universe, they could also connect two different universes.

We both believe that God created the cosmos, but I like to know HOW.

 

[Clear]

Regarding what will contribute to unity of Belief among the various Christianities

Trailblazer asked : “How do you believe that will accomplish the goal of all the Christians speaking the same thing?”
Rrobs responded : “Believing the scriptures instead of tradition. Maybe we could start with something Clement (supposedly the first Pope) said.
1 Clem. 5:4 There was Peter who by reason of unrighteous jealousy endured not one not one but many labors, and thus having borne his testimony went to his appointed place of glory.
1 Clem. 5:6 having taught righteousness unto the whole world and having reached the farthest bounds of the West; and when he had borne his testimony before the rulers, so he departed from the world and went unto the holy place, having been found a notable pattern of patient endurance.
1 Clem. 6:2 By reason of jealousy women being persecuted, after that they had suffered cruel and unholy insults as Danaids and Dircae, safely reached the goal in the race of faith, and received a noble reward, feeble though they were in body.
It would appear that Clement sides with the devil in Genesis 3:4 instead of God in Genesis 2:17. God said we die, that we go to the grave.”



I think that attention to getting facts and interpretations correctly and honestly admitting to ourselves what we do not know will help more than simply “believing” in our own interpretation of scriptures instead of the early Christian interpretation of scriptures.

Getting our facts correctly creates better theories

For example, rrobs offered us a theory that Clement was the first pope, saying “Maybe we could start with something Clement (supposedly the first Pope) said.”

One problem is offering incorrect data :

Clement was never the “first pope” of the Roman Congregation. Making this base erroneous assumption may affect all subsequent theories that assume this error as truth. If one is going to “do history” then I think that there is no shortcut to looking at authentic historical sources. For examples :

Eusebius, in his history of the Christian religion tells us that Linus, was the first Bishop to the Roman congregation, then Anacletus, third Clemens, fourth Evaristus.

Anastasius' also confirms that Linus was the first Bishop of the Roman congregation, then 2. Cletus; 3. Clemens; 4. Anacletus; 5. Evarestus.

The Liberian Catalogues also confirm that Linus was the first Bishop of the Roman Congregation, then Clemens; 3. Cletus; 4. Anacletus; 5. Evarestus.

Eusebius tells us that after Paul and Peter were martyred, "Linus was the first to obtain the episcopate of the church at Rome." (eusebius of caesaria - eclesiatical hx). This specific quote comes from chapter two entitled "The first ruler of the Church of Rome". Eusebius repeats this same claim in chapter thirteen which is entitiled "Anacletus, the second Bishop of Rome".

Perhaps it is important to discuss historical context of the inconsistencies as well. For example, "The book of Pontiffs" claims Cletus follows Clement whereas the liberian catalog reverses this order. The difficulty is in making some sense of the conflicting data sets. In liber Pontificalis, peter suffers martyrdom "in the 38th year after the Lord suffered (68 c.e.) And Linus "was bishop in the time of Nero from the consulship of Saturninus and scipio (56 c.e.)

To that of Capito and Rufus (67.c.e.) Linus was bishop of Rome for 11 years from 56 c.e and by wonderful historical coincidence, Paul arrives in Rome (under house arrest) at this approximate time. Though Bishop Irenaeus indicates that both "the blessed apostles, St. Peter, and St. Paul, upon founding and erecting the church at Rome committed the office of administering the church at Rome to Linus", it may be that it was Paul alone who was responsible for Linus ordination (we simply don't know if one or both ordained Linus). The 11 years attributed to Linus makes complete sense if he held office from that time until just before Peter was martyred in 68 c.e. since this time table allows Peter to ordain Clement (since Bishops did not ordain bishops in original christianity, but rather one in a higher rank would ordain bishops). Clement succeeding Linus as the first real bishop is in agreement with the testimony of the Apostolic constitutions and it's list of who were the first bishops of various cities in the first century.

Since it is actually Linus, and not Clement who is, historically, the first Bishop of Rome (later designated "pope" of Rome), any historical claim made that uses this incorrect claim as a basis, will have error in it. Even if you simply wanted to "name drop" to add credibility to a different theory, it decreases credibility when your facts are incorrect.



Incorrect interpretations and misapplication of texts create incorrect theories.
If we incorrectly interpret a historical text, then it creates errors in the theories based on the incorrect interpretation.

For example, rrobs says that New Testament Clement “sides with the devil in Genesis 3:4....”

Rob offers us three texts from Clement who says that after the apostle Peter died, he was blessed in that he ended up in #1 “his appointed place of glory” and #2 “the holy place” after Peters death. And the third quote from Clement says that certain women that died received a noble reward.

Rrobs interprets Clement statement and say Clement “sides with the devil” when the devil “…said to the woman, you will not die to death.” (Gen 3:4).

Rrobs –
#1 Why do you interpret the Apostle Peters colleague Clement to be “siding with the devil” in Genesis 3:4 when Clement obviously believes individuals die?


#2 What is your interpretation of what death means to Clement regarding Genesis 3:4 and why is your interpretation to be preferred over this colleague of the apostle Peter?

Why is your religion to take precedence over the religion of earliest Christianity?

Clear
ειφισενεω

 

[The Anointed]

One cannot separate Jesus from His words (Jn 12:48).

This shows the power of His word and authority of Christ.

Lu 4:32 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

John 12: 48-50; Those who reject me and do not accept my message have one who will judge them. The words I have spoken will be their judge on the last day! 49This is true, because I have not spoken on my own authority, but 'THE' Father who sent me has commanded me what I must say and speak. And I know that his command brings eternal life. What I say, then, is what 'THE' Father has told me to say.”

The words that came out of the mouth of the man Jesus, were the words that he was commanded to say by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who said in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; ; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.

 

[Trailblazer]

Matthew, whose gospel was originally written in Hebrew, states that the birth of Jesus came about in order to make the words of the prophet (Isaiah) come true.

Do you know what the words of Isaiah were, concerning that event?

No, what were they?

 

[Trailblazer]

The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary).

The ‘Son of Man’ who is the Lord God our savior, did live in his earthly host body, from the day He was baptized until the day that he gave up the spirit on the cross, crying out. “My God, My God, why have you abandoned me?” As our savior, who can never die, departed from his chosen Heir and successor, and the graves of the saints were opened, which spirits of the righteous had been gathered to him, who, at the age of 365 had been carried to God and had been anointed as the heir and successor to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and translated from a corruptible body of matter into a glorious body of brilliant light, in order that he should never experience death.

I do not believe that Jesus needed to be translated from a corruptible body of matter into a glorious body of brilliant light, in order that he should never experience death because Jesus could never die. Only the physical body can die; the human soul is immortal. After Jesus died on the cross, His soul ascended to the fourth heaven, to the Right Hand of God. That is where Jesus resides to this very day and where he will remain for eternity.

As to your opening question; "So do you believe that Jesus was a prophet, as Moses said he would send?" The answer is 'Yes.'

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God,

They were not the words of Jesus, but the words of the God of Abraham , Isaac, and Jacob, ‘The Son of Man’ and only begotten son of the Most High, who said to Moses; ----“I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. And whoever will not give heed to MY WORDS which he will speak in MY NAME, I will surely punish.”

Jesus cannot be BOTH a prophet and God at the same time because that is logically impossible, so Jesus was EITHER a prophet, or He was God. But Jesus could not be God because we know that Jesus was a man and God is not a man:

Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Jesus never claimed to be God, and Jesus said that nobody has ever seen God, which means that Jesus could not have been God, unless the Bible is in error.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

If some verses in the Bible are in error that means that we cannot trust the Bible to be 100% accurate, which means that any other verses you cite could also be in error. This is basic logic.

 

[Trailblazer]

Pretty much the first verse in every church Epistle. Then there are several other places.

Eph 3:3,
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Gal 1:11-12,
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The way I interpret those verses is that Paul received the gospel from Jesus Christ, not God.

I assume you believe that the same man Jesus is going to return from heaven.

Yes. It's what keeps me going.

Acts 1:9,
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

Where do you think heaven is located?

Where the birds are (not to be confused with where the girls are).

So you believe that Jesus is in heaven which is somewhere above the earth and Jesus is alive in a physical body?

I believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body. I do not believe that heaven is a place above the earth, but rather another world, another dimension that is not really separate from this world.

It is also used to describe God's dwelling place and a few other things. I've not really studied it that much, so I'm limited as to what I can say. I do know it's not where we're going to be sitting on a cloud and play a harp for eternity. The scriptures say we will be with Jesus and he will be on the new earth. I think I'd rather have some kind of life in a recreated earth instead of playing the harp all day long forever.

What scriptures are those? In these verses on John 17 Jesus said His work is finished here and He is no more in the world.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

How can you explain the plain meaning of these verses if Jesus is coming back to earth? I do not know of any verses where Jesus says He is coming back to earth, and I have been asking Christians for such verses for years.

Why do you think you have to choose between living forever on a recreated earth or living in heaven and having things to do in heaven. I believe that we will continue the spiritual work we were doing here but we will no longer have to work for a living. Heaven is kind of like being retired and being able to do anything we want to, and not needing money for anything, since everything we need to exist will be provided by God.

I believe that whatever spiritual qualities we acquire in this world will carry over to the spiritual world, so the more we acquire here the better off we will be in heaven, for all of eternity. I believe that the main purpose of our earthly existence here is to acquire those qualities which are expressed through the soul here and will continue to be expressed through the soul in heaven. The only difference is that we will be in another from, not a physical body, but a spiritual body. That is confirmed by Paul.

I believe that after the physical body dies, our spirit (soul) passes from this material world to the spiritual world (heaven) and takes on a spiritual body.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351​

This concurs with what Paul said, that we were sown in a natural body and raised in a spiritual body, and we are raised in a spiritual body because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, which is in heaven.

1st Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Jesus did say to pray to God “your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven “ so I believe there will also be a Kingdom of God built on earth, but that will be for people who are still living in physical bodies and for future generations of the living.

1 Thess 4:16-17,
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I don't see a problem with taking that for what it says. Making something like that figurative opens the door for all sorts of ideas which only exacerbates division. If we can't just read what it says and confess it as written, then we will indeed be divided. It's like the Sunday school circle where the teacher says, "OK let's see what you all think about Jesus coming again. Johnny, what is your opinion? How about your opinion Mary?"

So you believe that dead bodies will rise from their graves and their flesh and bones will be reconstituted and then they will float up into the sky to meet Jesus in the air? Don’t you see a logistical problem with this? And what about the 71% of people who are not Christians, what will happen to them?

I believe these verses are metaphorical, not to be taken literally.

Revelation (and a few other places) speak of two resurrections. If everybody was already up and ostensibly alive in heaven or hell, why would we need any resurrection at all?

I would have to see the verses to interpret them, but the first resurrection could be when the Christ Spirit returns and those who were dead in Christ are spiritually resurrected to life, and the second resurrection could be when we die physically and our soul (spirit) is lifted up to heaven.

The dead being alive leads to many other errors. If Christendom could just believe the simplicity of what God said in Genesis 2:17, I think we'd get much closer to a unified front.

What do you believe that verse means?

 

[The Anointed]

The way I interpret those verses is that Paul received the gospel from Jesus Christ, not God.

So you believe that Jesus is in heaven which is somewhere above the earth and Jesus is alive in a physical body?

I believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body. I do not believe that heaven is a place above the earth, but rather another world, another dimension that is not really separate from this world.

What scriptures are those? In these verses on John 17 Jesus said His work is finished here and He is no more in the world.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

How can you explain the plain meaning of these verses if Jesus is coming back to earth? I do not know of any verses where Jesus says He is coming back to earth, and I have been asking Christians for such verses for years.

Why do you think you have to choose between living forever on a recreated earth or living in heaven and having things to do in heaven. I believe that we will continue the spiritual work we were doing here but we will no longer have to work for a living. Heaven is kind of like being retired and being able to do anything we want to, and not needing money for anything, since everything we need to exist will be provided by God.

I believe that whatever spiritual qualities we acquire in this world will carry over to the spiritual world, so the more we acquire here the better off we will be in heaven, for all of eternity. I believe that the main purpose of our earthly existence here is to acquire those qualities which are expressed through the soul here and will continue to be expressed through the soul in heaven. The only difference is that we will be in another from, not a physical body, but a spiritual body. That is confirmed by Paul.

I believe that after the physical body dies, our spirit (soul) passes from this material world to the spiritual world (heaven) and takes on a spiritual body.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351​

This concurs with what Paul said, that we were sown in a natural body and raised in a spiritual body, and we are raised in a spiritual body because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, which is in heaven.

1st Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Jesus did say to pray to God “your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven “ so I believe there will also be a Kingdom of God built on earth, but that will be for people who are still living in physical bodies and for future generations of the living.

So you believe that dead bodies will rise from their graves and their flesh and bones will be reconstituted and then they will float up into the sky to meet Jesus in the air? Don’t you see a logistical problem with this? And what about the 71% of people who are not Christians, what will happen to them?

I believe these verses are metaphorical, not to be taken literally.

I would have to see the verses to interpret them, but the first resurrection could be when the Christ Spirit returns and those who were dead in Christ are spiritually resurrected to life, and the second resurrection could be when we die physically and our soul (spirit) is lifted up to heaven.

What do you believe that verse means?

So you believe that Jesus is in heaven which is somewhere above the earth and Jesus is alive in a physical body?

I believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body. I do not believe that heaven is a place above the earth, but rather another world, another dimension that is not really separate from this world.

Like you, I also believe that the spiritual dimension into which flesh and blood cannot enter, which co-exists within our three dimensional world, (For the kingdom of God is within you) is where Jesus now sits in our Father's throne and invites all, who like himself, are able to win the victory over the ruler of this world to sit beside him in the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation. Rev 3: 21.

What scriptures are those? In these verses on John 17 Jesus said His work is finished here and He is no more in the world.

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say, by the Lord God our savior, who put his words into the mouth of Jesus, who he chose from among the Israelites and sent him, to speak 'HIS WORDS' to the people in 'HIS NAME.' Deuteronomy 18: 18-19.

How can you explain the plain meaning of these verses if Jesus is coming back to earth? I do not know of any verses where Jesus says He is coming back to earth, and I have been asking Christians for such verses for years.

Acts 17: 31; For he (The Lord God our savior,) has fixed a day (The seventh period of one thousand years, the Great Sabbath) in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

So you believe that dead bodies will rise from their graves and their flesh and bones will be reconstituted and then they will float up into the sky to meet Jesus in the air? Don’t you see a logistical problem with this? And what about the 71% of people who are not Christians, what will happen to them?

MYSELF, I believe that it is at the sound of the last trumpet, after the thousand Year Sabbath has ended, and before heavenly fire descends and incinerates all physical life form on earth, that the elect and chosen shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of Corruptible matter, into glorious bodies of incorruptible brilliant and blinding light.

I would have to see the verses to interpret them, but the first resurrection could be when the Christ Spirit returns and those who were dead in Christ are spiritually resurrected to life, and the second resurrection could be when we die physically and our soul (spirit) is lifted up to heaven.

When the spirits of the saints came out of their graves that were opened when Jesus gave up the spirit, three days after Jesus had been crucified, have each gathered to themselves the required number of righteous spirits who had paid the blood price for their inherited sin and any mistakes they may have made while in the flesh, Which righteous Blood will be the ransom price for the host body that each saint chooses on earth, as did Enoch, with the body of Jesus, they too will be reborn on earth, as the first resurrection.

Catch ya later mate.

 

[eik]

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.

These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.

Our zone, called a braneworld [the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane] could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld. Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy.

Because three-dimensional time as we know it, does not exist prior to the Big Bang: from the return of the universe to the supposedly infinitely hot, infinitely dense and infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next Big Bang when three dimensional space and time would begin, it would appear that no time had elapsed, thus [As I believe] the erroneous Big Bounce theory.

I would rather a theory which states that there are many galactic clusters [universes] out there within the eternal and boundless cosmos, each cluster=universe in its own position in Space-time, consisting of billions of Galaxies falling inward toward a Great Abyss, Black Hole, or Bottomless Pit, (The Great Gatherer) where it is torn to pieces Molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and reconverted into the electromagnetic energy from which they were created and accelerated along the dark worm hole to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that liquid like Electromagnetic energy is spewed out in the trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the eternal and boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy a new universe is created, or rather, the old universe is resurrected, to continue on in its eternal process of evolution.

How is this relevant to anything in the bible?

 

[Trailblazer]

So you believe that Jesus is in heaven which is somewhere above the earth and Jesus is alive in a physical body?

I believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body. I do not believe that heaven is a place above the earth, but rather another world, another dimension that is not really separate from this world.

Like you, I also believe that the spiritual dimension into which flesh and blood cannot enter, which co-exists within our three dimensional world, (For the kingdom of God is within you) is where Jesus now sits in our Father's throne and invites all, who like himself, are able to win the victory over the ruler of this world to sit beside him in the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation. Rev 3: 21.

What do you mean by -- For the kingdom of God is within you is where Jesus now sits in our Father's throne and invites all? Can you elaborate?

What scriptures are those? In these verses on John 17 Jesus said His work is finished here and He is no more in the world.

They were the words that Jesus was commanded to say, by the Lord God our savior, who put his words into the mouth of Jesus, who he chose from among the Israelites and sent him, to speak 'HIS WORDS' to the people in 'HIS NAME.' Deuteronomy 18: 18-19.

Why would the Lord God our savior put his words into the mouth of Jesus saying that if it was not true?

How can you explain the plain meaning of these verses if Jesus is coming back to earth? I do not know of any verses where Jesus says He is coming back to earth, and I have been asking Christians for such verses for years.

Acts 17: 31; For he (The Lord God our savior,) has fixed a day (The seventh period of one thousand years, the Great Sabbath) in which he shall judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

That does not say that Jesus is coming back to earth.

So you believe that dead bodies will rise from their graves and their flesh and bones will be reconstituted and then they will float up into the sky to meet Jesus in the air? Don’t you see a logistical problem with this? And what about the 71% of people who are not Christians, what will happen to them?

MYSELF, I believe that it is at the sound of the last trumpet, after the thousand Year Sabbath has ended, and before heavenly fire descends and incinerates all physical life form on earth, that the elect and chosen shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of Corruptible matter, into glorious bodies of incorruptible brilliant and blinding light.

That's a nice fantasy, we all have our own beliefs.
So what will happen to those who are not elect and chosen, or does that even matter?

I would have to see the verses to interpret them, but the first resurrection could be when the Christ Spirit returns and those who were dead in Christ are spiritually resurrected to life, and the second resurrection could be when we die physically and our soul (spirit) is lifted up to heaven.

When the spirits of the saints came out of their graves that were opened when Jesus gave up the spirit, three days after Jesus had been crucified, have each gathered to themselves the required number of righteous spirits who had paid the blood price for their inherited sin and any mistakes they may have made while in the flesh, Which righteous Blood will be the ransom price for the host body that each saint chooses on earth, as did Enoch, with the body of Jesus, they too will be reborn on earth, as the first resurrection.

I do not interpret that part of the Bible literally. I do not believe anyone ever rises from a grave or is reborn on earth. I do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead; I believe those were just stories men wrote long after the soul of Jesus ascended to heaven.