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The YECs' Dilemma
- Thread starter nPeace
- Start date
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
With faith, there is no need for explanations.
lukethethird
unknown member
It's a story in which there are Gods, and the Gods can do anything. Believing any story in The Bible is a dilemma for anyone.
I am not supporting the idea but rather offering a perspective (who knows who is right)
ae260.cfm
"You're asking about the famous (infamous?) Twin Paradox and the answer is both yes and no. I'm sure that's unsatisfying but let me give a bit more explanation:
As for 'yes:' When traveling at speeds near the speed of light special relativity says that time is dilated. Thus relative to another inertial frame (where perhaps a stationary twin sits) time for the moving twin is slowing down. Hence the stationary twin is aging faster. While the moving twin remains in an inertial frame (that is, continues to move at a constant velocity) the moving twin will observe time running slower for the stationary twin. "
Do we really have all the information necessary?
Yazata
Active Member
I'm not a YEC (a Christian or even a theist). But I fail to perceive the "dilemma" the subject line refers to. Could you explain a little more what you perceive the problem to be?
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Never mind that, if the universe is just a few thousand years old, as YEC's claim, then how can we observe the light from stars hundreds of millions of light years away? Did a deity create the light en route?
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Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Time as we know it could not exist until the planet was created, so, what does 24 hours even mean?
Sheldon
Veteran Member
From your own link:
"Although Gosse's original Omphalos hypothesis specifies a popular creation story, others have proposed that the idea does not preclude creation as recently as five minutes ago, including memories of times before this created in situ.[8] This idea is sometimes called Last Thursdayism by its opponents,[6] as in "the world might as well have been created last Thursday."
Scientifically, the concept is both unverifiable and unfalsifiable through any conceivable scientific study—in other words, it is impossible to conclude the truth of the hypothesis, since it requires the empirical data itself to have been arbitrarily created to look the way it does at every observable level of detail."
It's risible of course, that much us clear. If you have to create this kind of nonsense in order to "square the wheel" then you clearly don't understand Occam's razor.
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Another obvious flaw with faith then, clearly.
nPeace
Veteran Member
No problem.
In a video I was watching, a YEC was explaining that God created the universe in six literal 24 hour days, and his reason for saying there are literal 24 hour days, is based on the Hebrew word 'yom', which means day.
His reasoning is that we know a day to be 24 hours long - "that's what we know a day to be", according to him.
Hence, since the Bible used the word 'yom', it refers to a day - 24 hours long.
This seems to be the argument of YECs. So I wanted to hear the explanation from a YEC on Genesis 2:4, which reads... as quoted here.
If you are not a YEC, maybe you cannot explain...Unless perhaps you have heard the explanation?
What is time at the speed of light? At what speed is the universe expanding?
nPeace
Veteran Member
I'm looking at consistency.
If a person says the word 'yom' means day, and is - not maybe, could be, but is a 24 hour day. Then to be honest, they need to be consistent, wherever the word 'yom' occurs... especially when the word is used in the same text.
Consistency, IMV, is determined within context.
Maybe both sides are right?
(Time) Day consistent within Creation created by the God of Light before sin, and Day consistent when time ticked at the slower rate.
So... yes to creation by 7/24 hour days where a day could be a thousand earth years, and yet billions as one views it within earth years.
I understand what you are saying and asking.
Here is a question but I must preempt it with "do you believe that God created Adam?" - If "no" there is no question.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.
Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in His own likeness.
Genesis 5:2 Male and female He created them, and He blessed them. And in the day they were created, He called them "man."
Isaiah 45:12 It is I who made the earth and created man upon it. It was My hands that stretched out the heavens, and I ordained all their host.
Matthew 19:4 Jesus answered, "Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'
1 Corinthians 11:9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
It's what the Bible says. It's what the prophets, Jesus, and the first century disciples believed. It's what I believe.
exchemist
Veteran Member
But how do you know the bible is right? I expect you will say it's the word of God. But where (or whom) did you hear that from?
epronovost
Well-Known Member
I might be mistaken, but doesn't the Bible in Genesis define "day" as when there is light and "night" when there is not? Meaning the first day is when light is created; followed by the first period of dark; then on the 2nd day, during the second period of light, God made a bunch of other things and so on for 6 days until he made nothing on the 7th and kept it as a day of rest; the very first sabbath. Considering the narrative of Genesis, it seems pretty clear that those days are supposed to 12 hour or so like our day, excluding the nights. Of course, the setup in Genesis for the creation of the universe, and more particularly of the Earth is completely anti-scientific and demonstrably wrong, but that's not really important to most Christian, Muslim or Jew who don't take the myths of the Bible all that literally and more as a form of mythical national history and mythological tales interspersed with moralistic fables.
To be a literalist and whole heartedly believe in a literal reading of the creation myth or the overwhelming majority of biblical history is to be basically willfully ignorant or dogmatically deluded; a form of willing auto-deception that sometimes borders on mental illness.
To be a literalist and whole heartedly believe in a literal reading of the creation myth or the overwhelming majority of biblical history is to be basically willfully ignorant or dogmatically deluded; a form of willing auto-deception that sometimes borders on mental illness.
Yazata
Active Member
I still fail to see the problem. (Apart from the more general YEC difficulties.) The idea seems to be that the Hebrew word indicates a measure of time, presumably based on days as observed here on Earth. I don't see any more problem in measuring how long the creation of the universe (supposedly) took in terms of days than in measuring astrophysical quantities in terms of years (or light-years).
They are arbitrary and rather terrestrial-centric measures, but all measures are arbitrary when we get down to it.
I suppose that another issue might be that 'yom' didn't necessarily mean 'day' in that sense. It might have had a vaguer and more general meaning not unlike when we say "Things were different, back in the day". I don't know enough ancient Hebrew to comment on how the word was used in first millenium BCE Palestine.
It seems reasonable to think that a 24 hour day was intended by the authors of Genesis, since (a) they refer to 'the evening and the morning' being a day in each case and (b) the idea that God is apt to confuse a 24-hour day with a thousand years isn't found in the Tanakh ─ the sole reference that might even be called close is Psalm 90:4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night" and is substantially a device used by modern Christian apologists.
Why should a magical God in a story NOT get a lot done in a day?