Theists' explanation for the Presence of God, in Less than 20 Words

[Super Universe]

That's logically incoherent. In order to create himself, God would need to exist, in which case he wouldn't need to create himself because he would already exist.

Incorrect. You're thinking like a primitive human. You're rules are not rules that the universe has to follow. Your rules only limit your ability to understand.

How does a computer boot up?

You missed our discussion on virtual particles. Where do virtual particles come from?

 

[Polymath257]

Gravity comes forth from mass? So, it leaves. So it's lost energy.

huh? Could you be a bit more clear here?

You think I am expecting a mechanistic explanation? No. I was expecting you to say "We only know the force of gravity. That's about it." But you can't do that.

At the most fundamental level there *cannot* be explanations. Why not? because an explanation uses a *more* fundamental level to explain.

DC doesn't close the circuit. The electrons leave and go somewhere else. It would be nice if you just admit that you don't know, because I know you don't know.

On this one, yes, we know.

No electons are made or lost during the process? Do you have any proof of that claim?

Yes, it is called conservation of charge. Unless you are getting to energies where electron/positron pairs spontaneously form, or unless there are nuclear decays going on, the number of electrons doesn't change.

Causes are only crucial in the universe? That's because science has not accepted the idea of anything existing outside the material universe, well, except the idea of the 4th dimension of time.

Time is part of the universe.

Some of the scientists own rules don't make sense, and you know they don't make sense, but you're a follower just like most other scientists. You can't figure it out so you wait for the top 1% to figure it out for you but they can't because they haven't been given the answers yet AND some of the answers the scientists were given in the past they totally misunderstood, just like religion.

The difference is that science can *test* its claims.

 

[Polymath257]

Incorrect. You're thinking like a primitive human. You're rules are not rules that the universe has to follow. Your rules only limit your ability to understand.

How does a computer boot up?

Energy, in the form of electricity, is directed into the computer's circuitry, charging the devices. I can go into the specifics of the boot procedure and why the transistors do what they do, if you really want that level of description.

You missed our discussion on virtual particles. Where do virtual particles come from?

You are assuming there needs to be a cause when, in fact, there is not.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Incorrect. You're thinking like a primitive human. You're rules are not rules that the universe has to follow. Your rules only limit your ability to understand.

How does a computer boot up?

You missed our discussion on virtual particles. Where do virtual particles come from?

Hahahaha

 

[Super Universe]

huh? Could you be a bit more clear here?



At the most fundamental level there *cannot* be explanations. Why not? because an explanation uses a *more* fundamental level to explain.



On this one, yes, we know.



Yes, it is called conservation of charge. Unless you are getting to energies where electron/positron pairs spontaneously form, or unless there are nuclear decays going on, the number of electrons doesn't change.



Time is part of the universe.



The difference is that science can *test* its claims.

Gravity is a force. Force has to have a particle. The particle leaves mass and goes out and...?

At the most fundamental level there cannot be explanations? There can. You guys really got stuck on the whole probability thing. I could explain it to you but to accept it would take something you don't have, a bit of faith.

In the Dual Slit Experiment, forget about the change from wave form to single particle for a moment, why did the particles form a wave pattern when the particles are supposed to be independant of each other? How could they know?

It's called conservation of charge? Your term, not mine. How would you know if an atom sent electrons somewhere else and got those electrons replenished from the universe? You wouldn't.

Time is part of the universe? All new information has to be given to humans because all beings are incapable of original thought except God. So, when the idea that the MULTIVERSE is time was given to humans you screwed it up and thought space was time. It's not.

Yes, if you travel across space it takes time but that's like saying atmosphere is time because it takes time to fly somewhere or a roadway is time because it takes time to drive somewhere. Space is not time, the multiverse level we exist in IS time and so are the other levels but time is shifted, the higher you go the slowwwwer time gets. That's why in the bible it says that one day on the earth is like 1,000 years in heaven but the time ratio changes as you ascend.

There are eleven densities to the multiverse. We are in the most dense level. As you ascend the levels become less and less dense and time becomes slower and slower. Heaven is no density, no time, or all multiverse time at the exact same moment.

Don't try to picture it in your head. Think of a computer, God is the computer and the software. The multiverse is the main program running. This is all a simulation and your quantum experiments are showing that but you still haven't put it together. Well, actually Suskind thinks it's a simulation but he thinks it's a three dimensional sim with all information stored on a two dimensional sphere. Imagination is good. You need it to fully understand but, really, there's no way you're going to figure it out without receiving new information from God, revelation, probably in a dream so you think it's you.

Science can test it's claims? When was the big bang test? And the test for the Conservation of Energy? And the test for string theory?

 

[Super Universe]

Energy, in the form of electricity, is directed into the computer's circuitry, charging the devices. I can go into the specifics of the boot procedure and why the transistors do what they do, if you really want that level of description.



You are assuming there needs to be a cause when, in fact, there is not.

Not the path of the electricity, the coding, the values, the computer teaches itself to be a computer. That's how God did it.

I'm assuming there needs to be a cause? No. Farnsworth is assuming there needs to be a cause and the other atheists are assuming there needs to be a cause. I accept the cause, the virtual particles come from the matrix, or, what you call space/time. Those virtual particles can be manipulated, brought into mass by beings (angels) who have been coded (given the ability) to assign mass in order to form nebula's.

God created Himself. I accept it.

 

[ecco]

God created Himself but primitive atheists won't accept that

Primitive atheists won't accept it because it is nonsense.
Advanced atheists won't accept it because it is nonsense.
Most theists, including Christians, Jews, and Muslims won't accept it because it is nonsense.

the computer teaches itself to be a computer.

Apparently you know very little about computers. Computers do not teach themselves to be computers. Computers are taught, by people, to do things. Some computers are taught, by people, how to learn. So, your analogy of God creating himself to computers teaching themselves to be computers is very apt. Both are very wrong. Both are illogical. Both are nothing more than silly, nonsensical thoughts.

 

[Jesuslightoftheworld]

Let me read theists' explanation for the presence of God, in less than 20 words.

Creation vs. Evolution: the laws of physics does not support the Big Bang theory. Creation = Creator = God.

I need 10 more words...

 

[Super Universe]

Primitive atheists won't accept it because it is nonsense.
Advanced atheists won't accept it because it is nonsense.
Most theists, including Christians, Jews, and Muslims won't accept it because it is nonsense.



Apparently you know very little about computers. Computers do not teach themselves to be computers. Computers are taught, by people, to do things. Some computers are taught, by people, how to learn. So, your analogy of God creating himself to computers teaching themselves to be computers is very apt. Both are very wrong. Both are illogical. Both are nothing more than silly, nonsensical thoughts.

So you think theists, including Christians, Jews, and Muslims don't accept that God created Himself? How do they think He came to be then?

Computers are taught by people to do things? Really? I have turned on computers thousands of times and not once have I ever seen a person tell the computer what to do. They boot up entirely on their own because of something called BIOS. You should go look it up before you post again that way maybe next time won't think you're smarter than the teacher.

Both are illogical? Explain logic to me then?

 

[McBell]

You should go look it up before you post again that way maybe next time won't think you're smarter than the teacher.

 

[McBell]

They boot up entirely on their own because of something called BIOS.

My computer does not have a BIOS...
It has a UEFI.
Still has a CMOS though.

TUI to GUI is great

 

[Super Universe]

My computer does not have a BIOS...
It has a UEFI.
Still has a CMOS though.

TUI to GUI is great

Nice. Your computer is better than my computer, but, now you know how something can start from nothing.

 

[McBell]

Nice. Your computer is better than my computer, but, now you know how something can start from nothing.

Except it is not starting from nothing.
So no, we do not know how something can start from nothing.

 

[Super Universe]

Except it is not starting from nothing.
So no, we do not know how something can start from nothing.

You're right.

Wow.

So then about this big bang idea, all the matter came from where?

 

[McBell]

You're right.

Wow.

So then about this big bang idea, all the matter came from where?

I have no idea.
I personally have the same scepitcism abou thte big bang as I do with creation.

Though, I am fine with not knowing.
It does not make any different in my life if it was created, by whom, for what reason, etc.
Nor if it always existed.

 

[ecco]

Creation vs. Evolution: the laws of physics does not support the Big Bang theory. Creation = Creator = God.

I need 10 more words...

And there, in just a few words, we see why so many people love religion and dismiss science.
Religion: Cutesy catchphrases. Simplicity. Requires no work.
Science: Difficult to understand. Requires years of study and learning.

I wonder if the alleged people allegedly quoting Jesus ever noted Jesus saying any like; Knowledge and truth require hard work.

 

[ecco]

So you think theists, including Christians, Jews, and Muslims don't accept that God created Himself? How do they think He came to be then?

The belief that I see most often in these threads and in talking with real people is that God has always existed. That is not the same thing as an entity creating itself.

Computers are taught by people to do things? Really? I have turned on computers thousands of times and not once have I ever seen a person tell the computer what to do. They boot up entirely on their own because of something called BIOS.

Again, you make your lack of knowledge abundantly apparent. Do you have any clue as to what a BIOS really is?

One minute on Google would have saved you much embarrassment.

BIOS​

/ˈbīäs/
noun
COMPUTING
a set of computer instructions in firmware which control input and output operations.

​

You seem to be under the impression that the BIOS created itself. Wrong. People created it. Who do you think created the firmware and who do you think put the computer instructions into it?


On this forum, when you click Reply, do you think that the computer, when it was manufactured, knew about Reply? It did not. Human beings, sometimes called programmers or, these days, systems engineers, wrote programs telling the computer to display a Reply button and what to do when the cursor hovered over it and what to do when a user clicked on it.

Why would you even enter a conversation about a subject you know nothing about?

You should go look it up before you post again that way maybe next time won't think you're smarter than the teacher.

It's pretty obvious to anyone following this thread that you don't have a clue about what makes computers work.

Both are illogical? Explain logic to me then?

See above.

 

[Brian2]

Let me read theists' explanation for the presence of God, in less than 20 words.

God has revealed Himself to us in His Word.

 

[Super Universe]

The belief that I see most often in these threads and in talking with real people is that God has always existed. That is not the same thing as an entity creating itself.



Again, you make your lack of knowledge abundantly apparent. Do you have any clue as to what a BIOS really is?

One minute on Google would have saved you much embarrassment.

BIOS​

/ˈbīäs/
noun
COMPUTING
a set of computer instructions in firmware which control input and output operations.

​

You seem to be under the impression that the BIOS created itself. Wrong. People created it. Who do you think created the firmware and who do you think put the computer instructions into it?


On this forum, when you click Reply, do you think that the computer, when it was manufactured, knew about Reply? It did not. Human beings, sometimes called programmers or, these days, systems engineers, wrote programs telling the computer to display a Reply button and what to do when the cursor hovered over it and what to do when a user clicked on it.

Why would you even enter a conversation about a subject you know nothing about?




It's pretty obvious to anyone following this thread that you don't have a clue about what makes computers work.





See above.

The religious belief you see is that God always existed? If you just go just by universal time then God existed before the universe since He created the universe. If you go by a series of events, He created Himself, then the Trinity, then God created the universe.

I'm under the impression that BIOS created itself? Not what I said. I simply stated that when computers boot up they learn how to be a computer.

You say that people created BIOS? Do you have any evidence of that? You posted a link to Google. To you, is Google evidence?

Humans put the reply button on the webpage? So, some intelligence had to exist for complicated things to exist?

Are there any atheists who are not angry? I mean, you guys are really, really, really angry.

 

[ecco]

God has revealed Himself to us in His Word.

Indeed, the Koran does tell us much about the True God. I'm glad you recognize that.






ETA [sarcasm] [/sarcasm]