• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Thelema

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Liber II
The Message of
The Master Therion

This Epistle first appeared in The Equinox III(1) (Detroit: Universal, 1919).
The quotations are from Liber Legis-The Book of the Law.-H.B.
Copyright (c) Ordo Templi Orientis
“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”
“There is no Law beyond Do what thou wilt.”
“The word of the Law is Velhma.”
Velhma—Thelema—means Will.
The Key to this Message is this word-Will. The first obvious meaning of this Law is confirmed by antithesis; “The word of Sin is Restriction.”
Again: “Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect.”

Take this carefully; it seems to imply a theory that if every man and every woman did his and her will—the true will—there would be no clashing. “Every man and every woman is a star,” and each star moves in an appointed path without interference. There is plenty of room for all; it is only disorder that creates confusion.

From these considerations it should be clear that “Do what thou wilt” does not mean “Do what you like.” It is the apotheosis of Freedom; but it is also the strictest possible bond.
Do what thou wilt—then do nothing else. Let nothing deflect thee from that austere and holy task. Liberty is absolute to do thy will; but seek to do any other thing whatever, and instantly obstacles must arise. Every act that is not in definite course of that one orbit is erratic, an hindrance. Will must not be two, but one.

Note further that this will is not only to be pure, that is, single, as explained above, but also “unassuaged of purpose.” This strange phrase must give us pause. It may mean that any purpose in the will would damp it; clearly the “lust of result” is a thing from which it must be delivered.

But the phrase may also be interpreted as if it read “with purpose unassuaged”—i.e., with tireless energy. The conception is, therefore, of an eternal motion, infinite and unalterable. It is Nirvana, only dynamic instead of static—and this comes to the same thing in the end.

The obvious practical task of the magician is then to discover what his will really is, so that he may do it in this manner, and he can best accomplish this by the practices of Liber Thisarb (see Equinox I(7), p. 105) or such others as may from one time to another be appointed.

Thou must (1) Find out what is thy Will. (2) Do that Will with a) one-pointedness, (b) detachment, (c) peace.

Then, and then only, art thou in harmony with the Movement of Things, thy will part of, and therefore equal to, the Will of God. And since the will is but the dynamic aspect of the self, and since two different selves could not possess identical wills; then, if thy will be God's will, Thou art That.

There is but one other word to explain. Elsewhere it is written— surely for our great comfort—“Love is the law, love under will.”

This is to be taken as meaning that while Will is the Law, the nature of that Will is Love. But this Love is as it were a by-product of that Will; it does not contradict or supersede that Will; and if apparent contradiction should arise in any crisis, it is the Will that will guide us aright. Lo, while in The Book of the Law is much of Love, there is no word of Sentimentality. Hate itself is almost like Love! “As brothers fight ye!” All the manly races of the world understand this. The Love of Liber Legis is always bold, virile, even orgiastic. There is delicacy, but it is the delicacy of strength. Mighty and terrible and glorious as it is, however, it is but the pennon upon the sacred lance of Will, the damascened inscription upon the swords of the Knight-monks of Thelema.

Love is the law, love under will.​
 

Rhizomatic

Vaguely (Post)Postmodern
Octavia, what is your interpretation of The Comment?

Are you a member of the OTO? If so, how is The Comment dealt with in that context?
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Its saying interpret the Book yourself and avoid having to listen to what other people think it means.

Its also a typical Crowleyan joke. OTO is one great big 'centre of pestilance' :p
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
STEPPING OUT OF THE OLD AEON
INTO THE NEW
By Frater Achad​
(Originally published in The Equinox, Volume III, No. I)

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

As all of you should know, we have entered a New Aeon. A Higher Truth has been given to the World. This truth is waiting in readiness for all those who will consciously accept it, but it has to be realized before it is understood, and day by day those who have accepted this Law, and are trying to live it, realize more and more of its Beauty and Perfection.


The new teaching appears strange at first; and the mind is unable to grasp more than a fragment of what it really means. Only when we are living the Law can that fragment expand into the infinite conception of the whole.


I want you to share with me one little fragment of this great Truth which has been made clear to me this Sun-Day morning: I want you to come with me - if you will - just across the border-line of the Old Aeon and gaze for a moment at the New. Then, if the aspect pleases you, you will stay, or, it may be, you will return for a while, but the road once open and the Path plain, you will always be able to get there again, in the twinkling of an eye, just by readjusting your Inner sight to the Truth.


You know how deeply we have always been impressed with the ideas of Sun-rise and Sun-set, and how our ancient brethren, seeing the Sun disappear at night and rise again in the morning, based all their religious ideas in this one conception of a Dying and Re-arisen God. This is the central idea of the religion of the Old Aeon but we have left it behind us because although it seemed to be based on Nature (and Nature's symbols are always true), yet we have outgrown this idea which is only apparently true in Nature. Since this great Ritual of Sacrifice and Death was conceived and perpetuated, we, through the observation of our men of science, have come to know that it is not the Sun which rises and sets, but the earth on which we live which revolves so that its shadow cuts us off from the sunlight during what we call night. The Sun does not die, as the ancients thought; It is always shining, always radiating Light and Life. Stop for a moment and get a clear conception of this Sun, how He is shining in the early morning, shining at mid-day, shining in the evening, and shining in the night. Have you got this idea clearly in your minds? You have stepped out of the Old -Eon into the New.

Now let us consider what has happened. In order to get this mental picture of the ever-shining Sun, what did you do? You identified yourself with the Sun. You stepped out of the consciousness of this planet; and for a moment you had to consider yourself as a Solar Being. Then why step back again? You may have done so involuntarily, because the Light was so great that it seemed as Darkness. But do it again, this time more fully, and let us consider what the changes in our concept of the Universe will be.


The moment we identify ourselves with the Sun, we realize that we have become the source of Light, that we too are now shining gloriously, but we also realize that the Sunlight is no longer for us, for we can no longer see the Sun, any more than in our little old-aeon consciousness we could see ourselves. All around us is perpetual Night, but it is the Starlight of the Body of Our Lady Nuit in which we live and move and have our being. Then, from this height we look back upon the little planet Earth, of which we, a moment ago, were a part, and think of Ourself as shedding our Light upon all those little individuals we have called our brothers and sisters, the slaves that serve. But we do not stop there. Imagine the Sun concentrating His rays for a moment on one tiny spot, the Earth. What happens? It is burnt up, it is consumed, it disappears. But in our Solar Consciousness is Truth, and though we glance for a moment at the little sphere we-have left behind us, and it is no more, yet there is "that which remains." What remains? What has happened? We realize that "every man and every woman is a star." We gaze around at our wider heritage, we gaze at the Body of Our Lady Nuit. We are not in darkness; we are much nearer to Her now. What (from the little planet) looked like specks of light, are now blazing like other great Suns, and these are truly our brothers and sisters, whose essential and Starry nature we had never before seen and realized. These are the 'remains' of those we thought we had left behind.


There is plenty of room here, each one travels in His true Path, all is joy.
Now, if you want to step back into the Old Aeon do so. But try and bear in mind that those around you are in reality Suns and Stars, not little shivering slaves. If you are not willing to be a King yourself, still recognize that they have a right to Kingship, even as you have, whenever you wish to accept it. And the moment you desire to do so, you have only to remember this -- Look at things from the point of view of the Sun.


Love is the law, love under will.​
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What is Thelema all about? Individual freedom, not submitting to society's pressures? Shocking people? Unleashing hidden powers?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Sorry, I forgot to ask: Taking pleasure at the curiosity and puzzlement of others as well?

Don't take this the unpleasant way, but really, it sure looks like that feeling is a significant, if not all-out major, appealling point of Thelema. I may be wrong.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Why did Crowley choose to use the Egyptian deities and belief system to develop Thelema? Or did the Egyptian gods interact with him?
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Sorry, I forgot to ask: Taking pleasure at the curiosity and puzzlement of others as well?

Don't take this the unpleasant way, but really, it sure looks like that feeling is a significant, if not all-out major, appealling point of Thelema. I may be wrong.

Oh dear excuse me Luis. I didn't notice the puzzlement as you were so accurate with your description! :p

Individual freedom, not submitting to society's pressures? Shocking people? Unleashing hidden powers?
The law of Thelema is the law of Liberty. Its word of sin is Restriction. Shocking oneself, is guess, would be more accurate.. and unleashing hidden powers - certainly! Thelema is steeped in the practise of Magick.

I certainly take pleasure in your curiosity, but not your puzzlement -
Let me help you dispell any confuzzlement
The Law is for All!!

I for one do not follow Thelema in order to steep myself in mystery, quite the contrary. I see it as my duty to spread the Law wherever i go. :)
 
Last edited:

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Why did Crowley choose to use the Egyptian deities and belief system to develop Thelema? Or did the Egyptian gods interact with him?

A bit of Both. The 'entity' which communicated Liber AL proclaimed himself a minister of HoorParKrat, and thus through him Crowley 'interacted' with the Egyptian Pantheon.

He was also in Egypt at the time of the books reception...

His transmission incorporated aspects of the Egyptian gods with the proclamation of a New Aeon to form the Thelemic deities Nuit, Hadit and RaHoorKuit
 
Last edited:

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Octavia what do you think of the idea of some in my faith that Crowley may have had the kingly ka, meaning he was meant to be the Pharoah, but he didn't know how to respond to it's call?
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Tell me more if this Idea.

I don't know what the kingly ka is exactly..but even with my bare undertanding I could probably get on board with the idea of Crowley having it!
What makes you think he did not know how to respond?
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
[FONT=&quot][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]In Egyptian mythology, Horus is the son of Isis, the Great Mother goddess, and Osiris, the Dying God. After Osiris is slain by his murderous brother Set, Horus rises up against Set and assumes the throne and place of his father, Osiris. In the Thelemic exegesis, Horus represents the inauguration of a new spiritual way, which will be preceded by a transitional period of unprecedented disaster and suffering (Set), in the very beginning of which we are now (Crowley believed that this period would last several centuries, and would ultimate in the destruction of Judaeo-Christian civilization, which he identified with Osiris, the Dying God).

Good introductory article this: THE LAW OF THELEMA
[/FONT][/FONT]
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Octavia the kingly ka is a part of the soul of Horus that inhabits the body of a person that is meant to be Nisut, but the people who have had it the last 2000 or so years haven't known how to respond to it. Crowley wrote and said many things about the Egyptian gods, and the method he wrote them in is similar to how our current Nisut writes. Not to say she couldn't be mimicing Crowley's writing style I suppose. Octavia was Crowley meant to start a new religious movement, or to revive the worship of the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt? That would be where the question lies.
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
Octavia the kingly ka is a part of the soul of Horus that inhabits the body of a person that is meant to be Nisut, but the people who have had it the last 2000 or so years haven't known how to respond to it. Crowley wrote and said many things about the Egyptian gods, and the method he wrote them in is similar to how our current Nisut writes. Not to say she couldn't be mimicing Crowley's writing style I suppose. Octavia was Crowley meant to start a new religious movement, or to revive the worship of the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt? That would be where the question lies.


Without a doubt - he was starting a new religious movement as opposed to simply reviving the worship of Egyptian gods. Thelemic philosophy is radically different from Osirisian thought.
For one, in Thelema, we do not worship the gods.. we may invoke their energies or honor them.. but the only thing we 'worship' is our own Holy Guardian Angel.
Nuit and Hadit for us are almost Scientific ideas... Nuit - inifinte potential (0); Hadit - a point therein (1)... RaHoorKuit - the magickal child of Nuit and Hadit - the interplay between potentiality and actuality resulting in manifestaion.

So if a Nisut has the responsibility of reviving the worship of Egyptian gods.. then no perhaps AC did not have the kingy ka.

HOWEVER - Horus did directly communicate to Crowley in an unprecedented way... which would suggest part of Crowley's soul was inhabited by him... and the reception of the Law of Thelema did mark the AEON of HORUS.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
At any rate Octavia I love Thelemic philosophy and have a high level of respect for Crowley
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
My favorite saying of Crowley's: "Paganism is wholesome because it faces the facts of life."
 
Top