CG Didymus
Veteran Member
How's the tribulations going down under? Here we have wildfires and record heat. I guess in Europe too.
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There is no argument to be used against a Messenger
What matters most to me is the happiness and well-being of humanity and I find that the teachings of Baha’u’llah call for the elimination of all forms of prejudice which is badly needed in this age. That an end to racism is not urgently needed is not true? Which planet are you living on? There is so much antagonism and hostility between the races, religions and nationalities that an urgent solution is required. And that’s not wishful thinking. It’s a requirement if we are to survive. Baha’u’llah has a proven record in being able to unite the different races, religions and nationalities into a world community. Tell me who has so far succeeded in accomplishing such a task?
We come from over 360 nationalities and backgrounds, former Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Christians and Babis and now we are one world community. It matters that only Baha’u’llah has been able to accomplish such a feat.
These ideas are the panacea for this age and I’ve seen people who were enemies now brothers and true friends. The transforming power of Baha’u’llah’s teachings bring hearts together who were once strangers and create loving bonds of lasting friendship.
Mechanical? Robotic? Far from it. These teachings awaken and stir the deep love and compassion for one’s fellow humans everywhere.
Good post. How are you CG? It’s very cold here down under in the middle of winter.
A good question as Baha’u’llah in a Tablet to the Christians claimed to be that ‘Spirit of Truth’ that Jesus spoke of.
In that verse Christians have interpreted the Spirit of Truth as the Holy Spirit. But Christ said that if He did not go, then the Spirit of Truth could not come but that means that the Spirit of Truth which Christians interpret to mean the Holy Spirit was not present in Christ??
Can you see the glaring flaw in the argument? If the Spirit of Truth (the Holy Spirit) was not present when Christ was with them then that infers Christ did not have the Holy Spirit!!!
The Son of God, born of the Holy Spirit yet not having the Holy Spirit?
This passage only makes sense if it is speaking about the One to come after Jesus because Christ was already filled with the Holy Spirit when He was with His disciples. What they were being told to wait for was Baha’u’llah because the Holy Spirit was already with them in Jesus.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
A mutual human natural family member.
Truth teller. First. Not religion. Not science. Not two men designers history rich man builder. Rich man science by machine. Two brothers wrong example both brothers wrong.
As his theisms were done by human choice in civilisation.
You get told mutual humanity owns no leader. You ignore your own advice.
As I can read any literature now and agree or disagree. Same words read before.
First star fall after the saviour of God only ice age changed bio brain. Brother went against brother.
As phenomena is individually proven as witnessed.
Two humans standing together one sees the phenomena and the other doesn't. One is attacked the other isn't.
Father says it's personal.
My brother said you got chosen. A Fake teaching.
Somebody would be changed by an effect. Natural law changed Effects.
Testimonial said a lot of fake preaching is involved in this testimonial. Ignored.
Such as man needs to convert his modern technologies back into old basic technologies to save his life.
Old tv.
Old telephone land line.
Warning. Thesis is I must take my modern machine used transmitters convert them back to New old designs. Modern day place only.
Exact your owned conscious now advices. From overview feedback. Your mind not innocent to grasp the earnings.
Mine was.
Adult daughters water life instantly saved my baby bio life. Conscious advice direct Inherited.
Father's messages inter mittent said then he needed to teach me as the baby. Said my message. As an adult I didn't realise when it was said.
Wasn't a new thesis for a new machine. As my brother infers.
You ask Rome did you brother change the long count 2012 clock. Not knowing what to state as predicted causes?
Yes.
How was your evidence shifted told?
A Muslim man history DNA gained new message. From origin Egyptian heritage causes by old terms.
He however by choice references the new terms himself. Baha'i.
So he says my 1000 year attack was not calculated by old. Advice was both terms. New message new star hit will be coming
Russia. Be warned satanic influences.
Russia's 1901 wasn't calculated by old either.
Jesus teaching said if man ignores his previous twice taught against nuclear occult. Third time destruction.
Third time will be your end.
Cock crows three times.
Man's conscious self penis he named consciously is C ock.
Real terms...no clock.
The meaning is using his ego instead of listening to the humans father natural spiritual life descriptions. Ego cries as a man not honest as science of men sacrificed life twice. Two brothers
By two beliefs his own.
Neared the end of life twice.
Natural words observing natural is first.
2012 long count hadn't involved new earth mass heavens or ice or mass shift. Jesus causes. Old wasn't new.
It was old advice direct to holy star wandering asteroid only. Life saved.
Not beyond that old detail.
What human lying causes massive earth shifts.
...Jesus was a near life destruction.
Just a warning only.
Why you are factually in a lot of trouble. Arrogant human sciences.
Truth teller. First. Not religion. Not science. Not two men designers history rich man builder. Rich man science by machine. Two brothers wrong example both brothers wrong.
As his theisms were done by human choice in civilisation.
You get told mutual humanity owns no leader. You ignore your own advice.
As I can read any literature now and agree or disagree. Same words read before.
First star fall after the saviour of God only ice age changed bio brain. Brother went against brother.
As phenomena is individually proven as witnessed.
Two humans standing together one sees the phenomena and the other doesn't. One is attacked the other isn't.
Father says it's personal.
My brother said you got chosen. A Fake teaching.
Somebody would be changed by an effect. Natural law changed Effects.
Testimonial said a lot of fake preaching is involved in this testimonial. Ignored.
Such as man needs to convert his modern technologies back into old basic technologies to save his life.
Old tv.
Old telephone land line.
Warning. Thesis is I must take my modern machine used transmitters convert them back to New old designs. Modern day place only.
Exact your owned conscious now advices. From overview feedback. Your mind not innocent to grasp the earnings.
Mine was.
Adult daughters water life instantly saved my baby bio life. Conscious advice direct Inherited.
Father's messages inter mittent said then he needed to teach me as the baby. Said my message. As an adult I didn't realise when it was said.
Wasn't a new thesis for a new machine. As my brother infers.
You ask Rome did you brother change the long count 2012 clock. Not knowing what to state as predicted causes?
Yes.
How was your evidence shifted told?
A Muslim man history DNA gained new message. From origin Egyptian heritage causes by old terms.
He however by choice references the new terms himself. Baha'i.
So he says my 1000 year attack was not calculated by old. Advice was both terms. New message new star hit will be coming
Russia. Be warned satanic influences.
Russia's 1901 wasn't calculated by old either.
Jesus teaching said if man ignores his previous twice taught against nuclear occult. Third time destruction.
Third time will be your end.
Cock crows three times.
Man's conscious self penis he named consciously is C ock.
Real terms...no clock.
The meaning is using his ego instead of listening to the humans father natural spiritual life descriptions. Ego cries as a man not honest as science of men sacrificed life twice. Two brothers
By two beliefs his own.
Neared the end of life twice.
Natural words observing natural is first.
2012 long count hadn't involved new earth mass heavens or ice or mass shift. Jesus causes. Old wasn't new.
It was old advice direct to holy star wandering asteroid only. Life saved.
Not beyond that old detail.
What human lying causes massive earth shifts.
...Jesus was a near life destruction.
Just a warning only.
Why you are factually in a lot of trouble. Arrogant human sciences.
Yes has been bad for many in America, I have seen some of the news.
They have had big floods on the East Coast of Australia. But I see home ownership and mortgage stress will be the next big issue in the cities. Rents are also sky-rocketing.
All the best CG. Regards Tony
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The old teachings of natural man enslaved to civilisation Egyptian history then technology and life sacrificed.
Same in America..
Mayan.
Same in India avedic.
Maybe China.
Said in the future the cooled wandering star will return supporting a cooling earths heavens evolution natural was the sign exact.
No Jesus review in that teaching. It was just about a sun cold asteroid wanderer mass. The answer was exact.
No future science was expected as man supposedly was taught his scientific lesson.
He proves he has not learnt any lesson at all as he still seeks leadership.
Greatness is each humans tribal great grand parents.
Given the title grand and great.
Human.
However many tribal elders now live under historic forced religion should be our representatives from everywhere. For our life choices as family on earth. By many real natural diverse minds.
Just natural humans only no religion involved.
As religious idealism does not allow for genesis secularity to be distinguished as natural human rights.
Natural human first. Natural self owned given by nature DNA brain mind condition.
Should be allowed freedom of self will by feelings without forced discourse of indoctrination processes.
If you don't allow your human thought to just be natural. Without any other reason imposed you won't gain a correct mutual just a human answer.
We should all be allowed to meet as just humans.
Same in America..
Mayan.
Same in India avedic.
Maybe China.
Said in the future the cooled wandering star will return supporting a cooling earths heavens evolution natural was the sign exact.
No Jesus review in that teaching. It was just about a sun cold asteroid wanderer mass. The answer was exact.
No future science was expected as man supposedly was taught his scientific lesson.
He proves he has not learnt any lesson at all as he still seeks leadership.
Greatness is each humans tribal great grand parents.
Given the title grand and great.
Human.
However many tribal elders now live under historic forced religion should be our representatives from everywhere. For our life choices as family on earth. By many real natural diverse minds.
Just natural humans only no religion involved.
As religious idealism does not allow for genesis secularity to be distinguished as natural human rights.
Natural human first. Natural self owned given by nature DNA brain mind condition.
Should be allowed freedom of self will by feelings without forced discourse of indoctrination processes.
If you don't allow your human thought to just be natural. Without any other reason imposed you won't gain a correct mutual just a human answer.
We should all be allowed to meet as just humans.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I don't have any problem with the Christian interpretation, other than it might be made up. Afterall, who was this John? Was it really the apostle? Is what he wrote accurate? Were the stories embellished? But why believe this and not the resurrection story? It's way too easy to interpret verses any way you want to. But does the verse in Acts tie in with the verses in John? For Christians they do. What do Baha'is believe about the Pentecost incident? Real or symbolic or made up?
John 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you....
26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Act 2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
Act 2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Like I said, you have no verifiable evidence that what the religion says is true, you just like what the religion stands for. You just want everyone to unite in brotherly love... a worthy goal in my opinion... but there's no need to believe in some god being in order to achieve such a goal.
Here is something from Abdul-Baha that might throw some light on it.
Thus the descent of the Holy Spirit means that the Apostles were attracted by the messianic Spirit, attained constancy and steadfastness, found a new life through the spirit of God’s love, and saw Christ to be their ever-living helper and protector. They were mere drops and became the ocean; they were feeble gnats and became soaring eagles; they were all weakness and became endowed with strength. They were like mirrors that are turned towards the sun: It is certain that the rays and the effulgence of the sun will be reflected therein. – Abdu’l-Baha
As to Pentecost. There is no doubt they received inspiration from God but The Spirit of Truth prophesied did not appear for He was supposed to fulfill certain functions and none of these things happened at Pentecost.
Christ prophesies this Spirit of Truth will fulfill certain tasks:
- Guide the believers to all truth
- Speak on God’s behalf
- Show them future events (prophesy)
- Glorify Christ
- Show Christ’s teachings to the believers, explaining those things He said they could not understand
Fair enough but how are you going to unite people? How are you going to inspire them to come together? You need a leader who can bring people together. That’s why we need a God or a Christ or Baha’u’llah especially at this time when there seems to be no leader committed to uniting us.
We have a very serious problem in the world called unbridled Nationalism. Some nations are committing genocide and war crimes and then saying ‘it’s my country and I can do what I please and no one has any right to interfere’. So we have these dictators committing wilful genocide in full view of the world and no one does anything because we are not allowed to interfere in the affairs of ‘other nations’. How unjust for those who are oppressed and tortured. They cry for help but no one answers. So if I am an American I only care about what happens to Americans. And if I am English, Australian or Chinese then my only concern is my own citizens.
So while genocide and blatant war crimes continue, no one can interfere because their hands are tied by ‘nationalism’. That the only people they are responsible for is their own ‘brand’ not human beings in general. There is so much suffering and cruelty being inflicted on innocent men, women and children by war criminals because there is no recognition of the world as a country only individual nations.
Baha’u’llah established a world community where nationalism does not rule and it works beautifully. The Universal House of Justice runs the Baha’i world community comprising some 360 nations and territories.
He said ‘The earth is but one country and mankind it’s citizens’. If this was applied no tyrant would be free to ply his trade.
Baha’u’llah also encouraged us to widen our minds.
‘Let your vision be world embracing rather than confined to your own selves’.
And ‘Close your eyes to racial differences and welcome all with the light of oneness’.
Imagine if the world believed and practised the above sentiments! Let’s make it reality. We can reach the planets so what’s stopping us from creating a world where we all feel safe and welcome?
In the past we just dreamed of things but this is the age where dreams are coming true. We can make it happen and will. The only thing is how long will people have to suffer depends upon how quickly the world can accept the oneness of all humanity in a legal and political framework not just a feel good thing.
The new world needs to be established on justice and human rights and the well being of all humanity not greed as it is now. Baha’u’llah has given us so much hope as we witness more and more barriers and prejudices being torn down. It’s so liberating to be able to call the entire world one’s friend and family.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
I simply don't think that further appeals to superstition and the supernatural is the road to unity. We need to get past religion as well as nationalism, which are both divisive and based on emotion, and instead unite around logic, reasoned thinking, and verifiable facts in order to work towards what's best for all humanity.
Logically and scientifically, humanity is one species, one race. This is the only way we can come together by acknowledging the humanity of one and all. But it has to be enshrined in a legal and political order backed by enforceable law.
The brotherhood of man is not enough. The system that we need must protect the rights of all from oppression and tyranny.
But religion as a force for unity cannot be ignored. Billions of people are united through Muhammad and Christ and further billions through Buddha and so on. No politician has ever succeeded in uniting so many people for so long. But religion has succeeded in this.
You mention superstition. Religion always agrees with science and reason but the followers over time create superstitious doctrines and weave a myth around their scriptures and Prophet which is against science, logic and reason. That is why you will see in all the religions scriptures another Prophet or Messenger is foretold Who will appear to renew religion.
Today it is Baha’u’llah Who is promoting a system based upon Justice and human rights for all humanity. And only religion can have a strong enough power to sway all humanity.
That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
I'll grant that religion has been a force for unifying tribes in common cause in the past, but in this day and age it tends to create more divisiveness than unity, as one religion or sect attempts to gain dominance over others. At some point it no longer provides any benefit for the betterment of society. Take Europe and the Middle East for instnace. Christianity very effectively managed to spread throughout Europe and join all of the tribes in common cause. However, once Christianity was prevalent, Christianity started to break up into various sects, all vying for final authority. The same happened with Islam in the Middle East. The religion at first united the region against the threat of spreading Christianity, but todays it's broken into sect that's violently oppose one another and bring us further from the united humanity we seek, not closer.
It's a crutch at this point that serves no real purpose and often distracts from the unity we'll need if we're going to survive as a race. We need to stop looking for some mysterious 'outside' force to guide us and realize that it's time for us to grow up, take responsibility for ourselves, and do the hard work that needs to be done ourselves. That's what humanists all across the world are advocating for, justice and human rights for all humanity. You'd think that's something that anyone would be able to support, regardless of their religious beliefs. There's no need for a belief in some god being in order to believe in justice and human rights for everyone; but sadly there are far too many religions that teach otherwise, that women should have fewer rights than men, and that gay people should have fewer rights, or shouldn't even have the right to exist at all.
If the brother/sisterhood of humanity isn't enough then we're doomed, because we is all we've got.
Everything you say makes perfect sense and it’s true that these religions have had their day and ceased to exercise a unifying influence on our world. I agree also very, very much that it’s we who have to do the hard work and fix things not wait for some magical God to do it all for us while we sit back and do nothing. That’s where religion has lost its power and dismally failed todays world because it is not solving or even addressing todays problems but instead adding to them.
But those religions had a distinct mission and purpose for their age for example Muhammad united and educated the barbaric tribes of the Arabian Peninsula into a nation with laws.
However times have changed and due to technology all these different beliefs have come into close contact with one another so there needs to be a common denominator in order to unite them. Having an order not based on a belief in God is problematic because the majority of the world believe in a Supreme Being or Higher Reality and I feel that only something connected to the spiritual paradigm could bring the majority together.
But it would have to acknowledge that there is validity in all religions, cultures, nations and races to be successful. All inclusive.
Baha’u’llah has brought a plan, but we people must do the hard work. No magical wand or miracles just plenty of effort and sweat. He brought the teaching of the ‘consciousness of the oneness of mankind’ and the concept of world citizenship to replace the limited unbridled nationalism we currently have.
But it’s up to the humanity to build a system which is all inclusive and just. There was a time when nations never existed. Then we widened the circle. Now the challenge is to widen our embrace to include all the people of the world in a system which will protect the rights of all and be just and fair.
Humanity will need to decide on such a system. Baha’u’llah has only offered the concept and idea and established a world community to prove it can work. It will be up to people to decide upon.
This is a long quote so please forgive me as it best explains what Baha’u’llah’s vision is. This was written in the 1950’s by Shoghi Effendi Guardian of the Baha’i Faith interestingly predicting the internet.
The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Bahá’u’lláh, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded. This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples. A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system. A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity. A world metropolis will act as the nerve center of a world civilization, the focus towards which the unifying forces of life will converge and from which its energizing influences will radiate. A world language will either be invented or chosen from among the existing languages and will be taught in the schools of all the federated nations as an auxiliary to their mother tongue. A world script, a world literature, a uniform and universal system of currency, of weights and measures, will simplify and facilitate intercourse and understanding among the nations and races of mankind. In such a world society, science and religion, the two most potent forces in human life, will be reconciled, will cöoperate, and will harmoniously develop. The press will, under such a system, while giving full scope to the expression of the diversified views and convictions of mankind, cease to be mischievously manipulated by vested interests, whether private or public, and will be liberated from the influence of contending governments and peoples. The economic resources of the world will be organized, its sources of raw materials will be tapped and fully utilized, its markets will be cöordinated and developed, and the distribution of its products will be equitably regulated.
National rivalries, hatreds, and intrigues will cease, and racial animosity and prejudice will be replaced by racial amity, understanding and cöoperation. The causes of religious strife will be permanently removed, economic barriers and restrictions will be completely abolished, and the inordinate distinction between classes will be obliterated. Destitution on the one hand, and gross accumulation of ownership on the other, will disappear. The enormous energy dissipated and wasted on war, whether economic or political, will be consecrated to such ends as will extend the range of human inventions and technical development, to the increase of the productivity of mankind, to the extermination of disease, to the extension of scientific research, to the raising of the standard of physical health, to the sharpening and refinement of the human brain, to the exploitation of the unused and unsuspected resources of the planet, to the prolongation of human life, and to the furtherance of any other agency that can stimulate the intellectual, the moral, and spiritual life of the entire human race.
A world federal system, ruling the whole earth and exercising unchallengeable authority over its unimaginably vast resources, blending and embodying the ideals of both the East and the West, liberated from the curse of war and its miseries, and bent on the exploitation of all the available sources of energy on the surface of the planet, a system in which Force is made the servant of Justice, whose life is sustained by its universal recognition of one God and by its allegiance to one common Revelation—such is the goal towards which humanity, impelled by the unifying forces of life, is moving.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
It's my contention that religion makes reaching such a goal more difficult, not easier. It's past time we gave up the crutch. We're old enough that we need to rally around humanity, not some mythical god being.
Considering that the Baha'i faith has a few "bad fruits" of its own, is it a good idea for you to go down this road?
In making that comment to me, on a reply I made to a comment another person had made, I will offer to you, that you are not aware of what I am talking about.
Would you like to know what I am talking about? It involves knowing about God.
Regards Tony
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What if that person claiming to be a "true" messenger says something that isn't true? In a book I was told to look at by the Baha'is had Baha'u'llah implying that Noah lived for 950 years? “Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace."
The other problem... Lots of people, even non-Christians, believe that Jesus was a true messenger. But do you believe all the NT stories about him? Unless you believe those things literally happened, then you are still making necessary adjustments to those stories to make them not complete and total lies. So, even the things about the life of Jesus become unprovable. So, what good is it to say, "can't prove it false" when nobody can prove it true either?
But do those stories sound true? Not to everybody... even to Baha'is. They make the necessary "adjustment" to those stories by saying they are not "literally" true but "spiritually" true. Which kind of makes them literally false, as in they never happened... They are fictional.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I want to investigate Krishna. What Scriptures do you approve of that will give me the truth about Krishna?
I would offer that we are not aware what Baha'u'llah offered in that Passage. What we can say is that Baha'u'llah confirmed existing scriptures.
This is what the Biblical offers.
Genesis 9:29
"Noah lived a total of 950 years, and then he died"
Regards Tony