There's no evidence that there is a creator?

[Kenny]

Claims of the miraculous do not have objective verifiable evidence that may be consistently verified, and most claims are by those with a religious agenda.

Every miracle is in context of faith. Making it a "religious agenda" is a twisted viewpoint in and of itself.

As far as "consistently verified". That is absurd. Do you have another accident where someone dies and there is a baby in the car in the water to see if it happens again? Obviously not. In that there were "multiple statements" by different people saying they heard a voice, it is consistently verified and therefore a miracle.

No, the spiritual is spiritual not of this physical world and a different realm of existence. The problem with miracles is the claim and justification from the human perspective.

I disagree with your opinion

 

[Subduction Zone]

Every miracle is in context of faith. Making it a "religious agenda" is a twisted viewpoint in and of itself.

As far as "consistently verified". That is absurd. Do you have another accident where someone dies and there is a baby in the car in the water to see if it happens again? Obviously not. In that there were "multiple statements" by different people saying they heard a voice, it is consistently verified and therefore a miracle.


I disagree with your opinion

It appears that you are saying that miracles are not real since real events leave behind evidence.

 

[Audie]

Every miracle is in context of faith. Making it a "religious agenda" is a twisted viewpoint in and of itself.

As far as "consistently verified". That is absurd. Do you have another accident where someone dies and there is a baby in the car in the water to see if it happens again? Obviously not. In that there were "multiple statements" by different people saying they heard a voice, it is consistently verified and therefore a miracle.


I disagree with your opinion

One can go to an accident scene, and see what happened.

And refer to many many similar ones, all of which have
endless documentation. And one could reproduce the event,
if they wanted to.

I am glad tho, to learn the standard for a miracle.

Then gold books was a sure enough miracle! We must all join the LDS!!!


The Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer

Jacob Whitmer

Peter Whitmer, Jun.

John Whitmer

Hiram Page

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Hyrum Smith

Samuel H. Smith

 

[Audie]

It appears that you are saying that miracles are not real since real events leave behind evidence.

lol

 

[savagewind]

Could you share what some of that evidence is?

No, I can't. There are millions of pieces of evidence. It is the pure harmony that exists everywhere that is MY evidence for ME.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"People lie."--Dr. House

Or you could have posted this:

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

No, I can't. There are millions of pieces of evidence. It is the pure harmony that exists everywhere that is MY evidence for ME.

Why is this harmony evidence for the existence of a deity?

 

[shunyadragon]

Every miracle is in context of faith. Making it a "religious agenda" is a twisted viewpoint in and of itself.

As far as "consistently verified". That is absurd. Do you have another accident where someone dies and there is a baby in the car in the water to see if it happens again? Obviously not. In that there were "multiple statements" by different people saying they heard a voice, it is consistently verified and therefore a miracle.

Nothing here "consistently verified." Your claim is absurd by all stretch of your imagination. "Multiple Statements" of different people hearing voices does not amount to "consistent evidence," because of the history such claims.

We will have to agree to disagree here if you insist on using anecdotal evidence as "consistent verified evidence." This would not even hold up in the court of our judicial system without supporting evidence.

 

[savagewind]

Why is this harmony evidence for the existence of a deity?

There is no reason (obviously!) It is my opinion that because there is so much harmony in everything it could not have happened without foresight.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

There is no reason (obviously!) It is my opinion that because there is so much harmony in everything it could not have happened without foresight.

I think we could both agree that personal opinion is not evidence.

 

[savagewind]

I think we could both agree that personal opinion is not evidence.

That is what I said. It is MINE for ME. Did you hear me say that? I interpret what I see as evidence. You don't interpret what you see as evidence. OK? To me, it is evidence. To you, it isn't. Actually, it couldn't be because it is what I SEE.

 

[savagewind]

What I see is not "personal opinion". But, to think so is funny. That is why I keep coming to this place. For the laughs. Haha

I wish that much of what I can see is personal opinion. Then, I could change it and I would.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

What I see is not "personal opinion".

Then you should be able to demonstrate that it is true through objective and independent means. You should be able to point to the evidence that led you to that conclusion.

 

[savagewind]

Then you should be able to demonstrate that it is true through objective and independent means. You should be able to point to the evidence that led you to that conclusion.

I can do that to anyone who cares. People here do not care. I have evidence for that. But, I am not going to share it because I do not want to waste ALL my time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can do that to anyone who cares. People here do not care. I have evidence for that. But, I am not going to share it because I do not want to waste ALL my time.

It appears that all that you have is confirmation bias. You can only "convince" those that already believe. Other religions have very similar evidence to yours. You need to ask yourself why that evidence does not change your mind and then compare it to your own evidence.

 

[shunyadragon]

One can go to an accident scene, and see what happened.

And refer to many many similar ones, all of which have
endless documentation. And one could reproduce the event,
if they wanted to.

I am glad tho, to learn the standard for a miracle.

Then gold books was a sure enough miracle! We must all join the LDS!!!


The Testimony of Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer

Jacob Whitmer

Peter Whitmer, Jun.

John Whitmer

Hiram Page

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Hyrum Smith

Samuel H. Smith

Where are the books now?!?!?!!?

 

[shunyadragon]

There is no reason (obviously!) It is my opinion that because there is so much harmony in everything it could not have happened without foresight.

Foresight?!?!?! There has been nothing found in the nature of our physical existence that is not explainable by Natural Laws,

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I can do that to anyone who cares. People here do not care. I have evidence for that. But, I am not going to share it because I do not want to waste ALL my time.

I am by no means telling you what you should and shouldn't do. What I will say is that this is what a lot of fellow atheists keep seeing. We see all these theists claiming they have evidence, but then they suddenly become quiet when we ask to see it.

 

[Audie]

Where are the books now?!?!?!!?

Where are the other miracles, now?

 

[Audie]

I am by no means telling you what you should and shouldn't do. What I will say is that this is what a lot of fellow atheists keep seeing. We see all these theists claiming they have evidence, but then they suddenly become quiet when we ask to see it.

Zactly.