there's nothing natural about traditional gender roles

[sun rise]

I enjoyed this article. Here are some excerpts to tempt and possibly excite you and the comments should leave a smile on your lips:

17 photos of animals that prove there's nothing natural about traditional gender roles

These animals demonstrate the greatness of nature and its stubborn unwillingness to conform to human expectations for the way things "should be."

2. Clown fish
Like many species of reef fish, clown fish can, and frequently do, change sex. Unlike most species of reef fish however, all clown fish are born male and are led (in familial groups) by a dominant female.

When she dies, the next-biggest male simply ... becomes female and takes charge of the group.

3. African buffalo
When it's time to find a new grazing spot, each female takes a turn standing up and gazing in the direction they want to travel, and when they're done, the whole group moves that way.

While status hierarchies exist within herds, the elections are equitable — one cow, one vote.

5. Komodo dragons
Female komodo dragons can lay viable eggs that produce offspring without a male partner, which pretty much explains why komodo dragon Tinder never truly caught on.

17. Bonobos
The female-led bonobos have invented perhaps the most ingenious way of preventing intra-species violence in the entire animal kingdom. Basically, everyone just has sex with everyone else — males with females, females with females, males with males, in pretty much every kind of way imaginable.

The near-constant hetero-homo-orgiastic delight that results pretty much prevents anyone from being mad at anyone ever and unites the species around the common goal of being the best apes ever invented.

We share about 99% of our DNA with bonobos.

 

[Rival]

Um, humans aren't any of these other animals.

 

[Revoltingest]

Um, humans aren't any of these other animals.

It's like we share one brain!

I'd like him to show just one photo of a
bonobo male loading the dishwasher.

 

[PureX]

These different strategies developed in various life forms because nature experiments. That's how life forms adapt to their ever changing conditions.

Variations among human reproductive strategies are not only a normal part of nature's mechanism for adapting to change, they're actually both healthy and necessary as they give us OPTIONS. And options are good even if we don't currently need to employ them.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Gender roles are unnatural because gender is a sociological construct and thus is artificial. But naturalness/artifice isn't a value judgement. Artificial things have utility for us in every facet of our lives.

What comes with value judgements is imposition. E.g. So and so has x gender (or sex as in the case with this article) so *must* behave in y way to satisfy z's value judgement.

 

[Stonetree]

Um, humans aren't any of these other animals.

Be mindful of the level of intelligence currently in attendance.....

 

[Left Coast]

I enjoyed this article. Here are some excerpts to tempt and possibly excite you and the comments should leave a smile on your lips:

17 photos of animals that prove there's nothing natural about traditional gender roles

These animals demonstrate the greatness of nature and its stubborn unwillingness to conform to human expectations for the way things "should be."

2. Clown fish
Like many species of reef fish, clown fish can, and frequently do, change sex. Unlike most species of reef fish however, all clown fish are born male and are led (in familial groups) by a dominant female.

When she dies, the next-biggest male simply ... becomes female and takes charge of the group.

3. African buffalo
When it's time to find a new grazing spot, each female takes a turn standing up and gazing in the direction they want to travel, and when they're done, the whole group moves that way.

While status hierarchies exist within herds, the elections are equitable — one cow, one vote.

5. Komodo dragons
Female komodo dragons can lay viable eggs that produce offspring without a male partner, which pretty much explains why komodo dragon Tinder never truly caught on.

17. Bonobos
The female-led bonobos have invented perhaps the most ingenious way of preventing intra-species violence in the entire animal kingdom. Basically, everyone just has sex with everyone else — males with females, females with females, males with males, in pretty much every kind of way imaginable.

The near-constant hetero-homo-orgiastic delight that results pretty much prevents anyone from being mad at anyone ever and unites the species around the common goal of being the best apes ever invented.

We share about 99% of our DNA with bonobos.

I don't find appeals to "nature" terribly helpful when it comes to ethical questions. This applies both to "natural law" arguments of conservatives and the sort of attempts above to bring up lesbian seagulls or whatever else. Non-human animals do all kinds of things that everyone sane would agree are awful if humans did them: killing their mates after sex, eating their kids, killing each other to decide who gets exclusive rights to have sex with a female, etc.

The more pertinent question, in my way of thinking, is to determine if something is helpful or harmful.

 

[SomeRandom]

There’s nothing natural about the internet either
That said, I think personal happiness is more important than living “naturally.”
If a person chooses to live in traditional gender roles, more power to them. If a person opts to live outside of them, more power to them.
As long as it makes them happy.
I mean I thought we were all supposed to be about freedom?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm skeptical of any claims of this or that
observed human trait being entirely cultural.
It's a hard thing to measure. Nonetheless,
if we find it useful to change some traits,
we have that ability. Let the individual
pick one's own gender roles or non-roles.

 

[sun rise]

Be mindful of the level of intelligence currently in attendance.....

You mean those who can't understand the implication/answer to those who consider certain things "unnatural" and miss the tongue-in-cheek humor presumably.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Gender roles are unnatural because gender is a sociological construct and thus is artificial. But naturalness/artifice isn't a value judgement. Artificial things have utility for us in every facet of our lives.

What comes with value judgements is imposition. E.g. So and so has x gender (or sex as in the case with this article) so *must* behave in y way to satisfy z's value judgement.

Is algebraic notation unnatural?

 

[Windwalker]

I'd like him to show just one photo of a
bonobo male loading the dishwasher.

 

[Sand Dancer]

He's combined two important activities. Efficient primate!

 

[fantome profane]

Um, humans aren't any of these other animals.

If you want to know about the natural behaviour of birds, observe birds. If you want to know about the natural behaviour of fish, observe fish. If you want to know about the natural behaviour of humans, observe humans.

Homosexuality, bisexuality, fluid sexuality as well as transgender and gender fluidity are all things that have been observed in humans.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I enjoyed this article. Here are some excerpts to tempt and possibly excite you and the comments should leave a smile on your lips:

17 photos of animals that prove there's nothing natural about traditional gender roles

These animals demonstrate the greatness of nature and its stubborn unwillingness to conform to human expectations for the way things "should be."

2. Clown fish
Like many species of reef fish, clown fish can, and frequently do, change sex. Unlike most species of reef fish however, all clown fish are born male and are led (in familial groups) by a dominant female.

When she dies, the next-biggest male simply ... becomes female and takes charge of the group.

3. African buffalo
When it's time to find a new grazing spot, each female takes a turn standing up and gazing in the direction they want to travel, and when they're done, the whole group moves that way.

While status hierarchies exist within herds, the elections are equitable — one cow, one vote.

5. Komodo dragons
Female komodo dragons can lay viable eggs that produce offspring without a male partner, which pretty much explains why komodo dragon Tinder never truly caught on.

17. Bonobos
The female-led bonobos have invented perhaps the most ingenious way of preventing intra-species violence in the entire animal kingdom. Basically, everyone just has sex with everyone else — males with females, females with females, males with males, in pretty much every kind of way imaginable.

The near-constant hetero-homo-orgiastic delight that results pretty much prevents anyone from being mad at anyone ever and unites the species around the common goal of being the best apes ever invented.

We share about 99% of our DNA with bonobos.

Reproduction without a male is asexual reproduction and has nothing to do with gender roles.
But, as other examples show, these things still happen. Gender roles definitely exist and social critters especially seem bound to display them.

 

[icehorse]

Gender roles are unnatural because gender is a sociological construct and thus is artificial. But naturalness/artifice isn't a value judgement. Artificial things have utility for us in every facet of our lives.

What comes with value judgements is imposition. E.g. So and so has x gender (or sex as in the case with this article) so *must* behave in y way to satisfy z's value judgement.

So many undefined and slippery terms in the OP and this post. So..

How do you define "unnatural" ?
How do you define "gender" ?

 

[Madmogwai]

I enjoyed this article. Here are some excerpts to tempt and possibly excite you and the comments should leave a smile on your lips:

17 photos of animals that prove there's nothing natural about traditional gender roles

These animals demonstrate the greatness of nature and its stubborn unwillingness to conform to human expectations for the way things "should be."

2. Clown fish
Like many species of reef fish, clown fish can, and frequently do, change sex. Unlike most species of reef fish however, all clown fish are born male and are led (in familial groups) by a dominant female.

When she dies, the next-biggest male simply ... becomes female and takes charge of the group.

3. African buffalo
When it's time to find a new grazing spot, each female takes a turn standing up and gazing in the direction they want to travel, and when they're done, the whole group moves that way.

While status hierarchies exist within herds, the elections are equitable — one cow, one vote.

5. Komodo dragons
Female komodo dragons can lay viable eggs that produce offspring without a male partner, which pretty much explains why komodo dragon Tinder never truly caught on.

17. Bonobos
The female-led bonobos have invented perhaps the most ingenious way of preventing intra-species violence in the entire animal kingdom. Basically, everyone just has sex with everyone else — males with females, females with females, males with males, in pretty much every kind of way imaginable.

The near-constant hetero-homo-orgiastic delight that results pretty much prevents anyone from being mad at anyone ever and unites the species around the common goal of being the best apes ever invented.

We share about 99% of our DNA with bonobos.

We share 99% of our DNA with Lettuce to, the DNA shared comparison means absolutely nothing.

 

[Madmogwai]

If you want to know about the natural behaviour of birds, observe birds. If you want to know about the natural behaviour of fish, observe fish. If you want to know about the natural behaviour of humans, observe humans.

Homosexuality, bisexuality, fluid sexuality as well as transgender and gender fluidity are all things that have been observed in humans.

Yes, so to has Bi Polar, schizophrenia, Down Syndrome.
Does that mean we shall call it Normal.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes, so to has Bi Polar, schizophrenia, Down Syndrome.
Does that mean we shall call it Normal.

The traits you listed usually accompany a medical diagnosis, with a set out plan designed to give the individual the most happiness. Or at least contentment.
And socially speaking, we no longer consider it polite or humane to treat people with medically diagnosed “issues” abnormally, if you like.

Sexuality and sexual identity whilst also involving various aspects of the medical community (to various degrees) they have found that merely accepting the identity of the individual is the approach that seems to be the best solution to the “diagnosis.”

An individual having Down Syndrome may require a bit of extra care provided by a professional in their day to day life. But that’s not something we should be denigrating.
A lesbian can live their life like everyone else and not be bothered involving any professional for help.
Making it arguably “normal.”

(Please note I am not trying to imply that anyone with a medical condition is lesser than or is somehow “wrong.” Merely that they might need a bit more TLC. And that’s fine.)

 

[Madmogwai]

The traits you listed usually accompany a medical diagnosis, with a set out plan designed to give the individual the most happiness. Or at least contentment.
And socially speaking, we no longer consider it polite or humane to treat people with medically diagnosed “issues” abnormally, if you like.

Sexuality and sexual identity whilst also involving various aspects of the medical community (to various degrees) they have found that merely accepting the identity of the individual is the approach that seems to be the best solution to the “diagnosis.”

An individual having Down Syndrome may require a bit of extra care provided by a professional in their day to day life. But that’s not something we should be denigrating.
A lesbian can live their life like everyone else and not be bothered involving any professional for help.
Making it arguably “normal.”

(Please note I am not trying to imply that anyone with a medical condition is lesser than or is somehow “wrong.” Merely that they might need a bit more TLC. And that’s fine.)

Yes they can and should live a normal life, but we should not be expected to say it’s normal when it clearly is not.