This is my problem with Most Christians

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

When asked if I am a Christian, I proudly proclaim that I am not. No big deal. Here's my problem. Then, after my reply, the person automatically assumes that I am an atheist. When I say that I am not an atheist either, they start going through these religions: Islam? Judaism? Buddhism? Hinduism?

That really makes me angry. Almost no one knows about minority religions, and it is almost solely because of Christianization. It just really ****** me off that Christianity can almost wipe a religion off the face of the Earth, and then not even acknowledge its existence.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I know what you mean Klaufi, and when you confront them with the fact that their religion did this to "Pagan" religions, they don't even acknowledge it.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

I know what you mean Klaufi, and when you confront them with the fact that their religion did this to "Pagan" religions, they don't even acknowledge it.

Exactly my point. I mean, who really cares about the Pagans anyway? They were all sinful, they DESERVED it.

 

[darkendless]

Its easier for Christianity to ignore the fact that they're the most celebrated violent scoundrels in history.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I find it amazing Klaufi that Christians in today's world want to whine about the Muslims giving the temple mount back to the Jews, but back when they used the Empire's political backing to wrangle the Egyptian temples from the Kemetics they didn't care about that.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

I find it amazing Klaufi that Christians in today's world want to whine about the Muslims giving the temple mount back to the Jews, but back when they used the Empire's political backing to wrangle the Egyptian temples from the Kemetics they didn't care about that.

Exactly. Or when they are surprised when a church that was built on a Pagan holy site is burned down.

 

[darkendless]

Exactly. Or when they are surprised when a church that was built on a Pagan holy site is burned down.

Gamla Uppsala used to be a Pagan religious and economical centre (burial mounds still remain) but instead these days they have build a lovely Christian temple

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Oh yeah Klaufi and what about when they borrow something from Pagans and then deny it? Examples: Celtic Cross, Ankh, etc.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Gamla Uppsala used to be a Pagan religious and economical centre (burial mounds still remain) but instead these days they have build a lovely Christian temple

Well of course, because big religious buildings with beautiful windows are much more appealing than ancient mounds of dirt!

 

[Quagmire]

When asked if I am a Christian, I proudly proclaim that I am not. No big deal. Here's my problem. Then, after my reply, the person automatically assumes that I am an atheist. When I say that I am not an atheist either, they start going through these religions: Islam? Judaism? Buddhism? Hinduism?

That really makes me angry. Almost no one knows about minority religions, and it is almost solely because of Christianization. It just really ****** me off that Christianity can almost wipe a religion off the face of the Earth, and then not even acknowledge its existence.

Exactly my point. I mean, who really cares about the Pagans anyway? They were all sinful, they DESERVED it.

Deserved what? The Germanic tribes weren't "wiped off the face of the earth" by Christians, they converted willingly. Unless you're suggesting that a handfull of robed monks took on the Vikings, the Gauls, and all the Celtic tribes and single handedly forced them to convert.

The reason nobody cares is because what you're complaining about never happened.

 

[darkendless]

Deserved what? The Germanic tribes weren't "wiped off the face of the earth" by Christians, they converted willingly.
.

Thats extremely debateable. Most monks converted nobles and kings who forced conversion upon their subjects.

Christianization of Scandinavia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

Deserved what? The Germanic tribes weren't "wiped off the face of the earth" by Christians, they converted willingly. Unless you're suggesting that a handfull of robed monks took on the Vikings, the Gauls, and all the Celtic tribes and single handedly forced them to convert.

The reason nobody cares is because what you're complaining about never happened.

I'm saying that the Germanic religions were wiped off the face of the Earth. And I'm not talking about Warbands who converted. They mostly converted because their Kings or leaders did. I mean the Pagan civilians. Look at the massacre a Verden. 4,500 Saxons were murdered because they refused to convert to Christianity. Look at the atrocities of Olaf of Norway. He murdered his own people that didn't convert either.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

If you look deeply into it, the Germanic tribes were converted through deception. The church leaders said things like that Odin was Jesus or that Loki was Satan. I'd say using deciet tactics like that is bad.

 

[Quagmire]

Thats extremely debateable. Most monks converted nobles and kings who forced conversion upon their subjects.

Christianization of Scandinavia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to the article you linked to, the only instance of forced conversions even vaguely resembling the process you're talking about occurred in Norway.

Almost everywhere else in Western Europe there was a slow and for the most part peaceful transition from paganism to Christianity.

 

[Quagmire]

I'm saying that the Germanic religions were wiped off the face of the Earth. And I'm not talking about Warbands who converted. They mostly converted because their Kings or leaders did. I mean the Pagan civilians. Look at the massacre a Verden. 4,500 Saxons were murdered because they refused to convert to Christianity. Look at the atrocities of Olaf of Norway. He murdered his own people that didn't convert either.

Ok, I'm willing to admit there's more to this than I realized.

 

[darkendless]

According to the article you linked to, the only instance of forced conversions even vaguely resembling the process you're talking about occurred in Norway.

Almost everywhere else in Western Europe there was a slow and for the most part peaceful transition from paganism to Christianity.

Thats the main one where violence did occur.

However if you read through the slow process of Denmark, King Harald Bluetooth claimed to have coverted Denmark to Christianity.

Only one account exists of violence between Christians and pagans in Sweden in the 1080's.

I'm skeptical about how much survived and about what we don't know about Christianization of immensely proud Viking cultures. I find it strange how the notoriously violent christians managed to take Pagan strongholds with so little bloodshed.

 

[Quagmire]

Thats the main one where violence did occur.

However if you read through the slow process of Denmark, King Harald Bluetooth claimed to have coverted Denmark to Christianity.

Only one account exists of violence between Christians and pagans in Sweden in the 1080's.

I'm skeptical about how much survived and about what we don't know about Christianization of immensely proud Viking cultures. I find it strange how the notoriously violent christians managed to take Pagan strongholds with so little bloodshed.

The thing is, violent or not, all the conversions seem to have taken place without outside influence. What I mean is: you're talking about "the notoriously violent christians" as if they were a separate, foreign, people. In almost all instances, that wasn't the case. In almost every instance the violence occurred between the Christian and Pagan factions within each country.

So we're not talking about Christians vs Vikings: we're talking about Vikings converted to Christianity vs Vikings refusing to convert.

 

[darkendless]

The thing is, violent or not, all the conversions seem to have taken place without outside influence. What I mean is: you're talking about "the notoriously violent christians" as if they were a separate, foreign, people. In almost all instances, that wasn't the case. In almost every instance the violence occurred between the Christian and Pagan factions within each country.

So we're not talking about Christians vs Vikings: we're talking about Vikings converted to Christianity vs Vikings refusing to convert.

If Christianity kept to itself there would have been no violence at all. In Norway in particular it seems as though an ultimatum was given, give up your way of life or die.

I disagree about outside influence. Reading through the wikipedia site as well as others demonstrates a flood of missionaries over time throughout Scandanavia. Certain Kings and nobles of the region were also forced to convert in order to recieve assistance when required. To assume Scandanavia could Chrisstianize itself wihout significant assistance i think it is a stretch. Missionaries build churches and cultivated the locals to an extent where they were self sufficient.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If Christianity kept to itself there would have been no violence at all.

I doubt that. I don't think that it's the case that peaceful Pagans suddenly became violent because they became Christian.

I think the fact that people have forgotten about Pagan cultures to the degree they have works both ways: positive things about them have been generally forgotten, but so have negative things.

 

[Quagmire]

If Christianity kept to itself there would have been no violence at all. In Norway in particular it seems as though an ultimatum was given, give up your way of life or die.

I disagree about outside influence. Reading through the wikipedia site as well as others demonstrates a flood of missionaries over time throughout Scandanavia. Certain Kings and nobles of the region were also forced to convert in order to recieve assistance when required. To assume Scandanavia could Chrisstianize itself wihout significant assistance i think it is a stretch. Missionaries build churches and cultivated the locals to an extent where they were self sufficient.

By "influence" I was referring to martial/military influence. We were speaking specifically about the violence involved in the conversion process, the forced conversions.

Of course there were foreign influences (Christianity was a foreign religion), but there was no concerted campaign (not a military one anyway) by "Christianity" to conquer the pagan world.

For the most part, Christianity was an idea (not an entity) that took hold and spread through the Pagan world and eventually dominated it. The point I'm getting at is that we're not talking about one people being conquered, converted, and stripped of their culture by a completely separate and foreign people (as was the case in the Americas), we're talking about a process of assimilation, sometimes violent, most likely always determined to some extent by political factors, but also always with the consent and assistance of at least some factions of the indigenous population: either the majority, or at least a controlling minority.