This is where liberty dies

[Epic Beard Man]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

I think they should be allowed... I just think there may be better ways to express themselves
However there is more to be gained in allowing expression of different points of view

 

[Phantasman]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

That's fine. So, why can't an Alabama football team don the Confederate flag saluting it? Isn't that free speech?

You're either part of Old Glory or you're not. The Flag didn't do anything, so why punish IT?

 

[BSM1]

I think they should be allowed... I just think there may be better ways to express themselves
However there is more to be gained in allowing expression of different points of view

So you think it's okay for anyone to show up at their jobs and protest anything that they wish? You realize how much these guys are getting paid to entertain us in this country? They want to protest then do it on their own time and their own dime.

 

[fantome profane]

So you think it's okay for anyone to show up at their jobs and protest anything that they wish? You realize how much these guys are getting paid to entertain us in this country? They want to protest then do it on their own time and their own dime.

Then keep them all in the locker room. That is the way it was done not too long ago. They would play the national anthem, and then the teams would run out of the locker rooms onto the field. But then they decided to put the players on display, forcing them to make a patriotic political statement. And that is how we got here.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And here I was hoping this debacle was over with. Just goes to show how much "free speech" means to those harping on about it the loudest. They want to scream "PC" when they get chastised for saying hateful things, but eagerly politicize the military as a tool to demand the silence of free speech when someone doesn't sport a red, white, and blue boner when it comes to nationalism.

 

[BSM1]

And here I was hoping this debacle was over with. Just goes to show how much "free speech" means to those harping on about it the loudest. They want to scream "PC" when they get chastised for saying hateful things, but eagerly politicize the military as a tool to demand the silence of free speech when someone doesn't sport a red, white, and blue boner when it comes to nationalism.

Sooo...you saying those R-W-B types shouldn't be allowed to say what's on their minds?

 

[Mister Emu]

Yep, this is where liberty dies. Not when the co-founder of Mozilla was forced out, nor when someone was fired for a dongle joke. Nope, it is a fifteen yard penalty.

I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests.

It doesn't surprise me that you don't see the nuance that separates the two behaviors.

 

[Father Heathen]

You're either part of Old Glory or you're not. The Flag didn't do anything, so why punish IT?

What a nonsensical, stupid-*** straw man. How does one "punish" a piece of cloth?

 

[Cooky]

A 15 yard penalty in a game means that our actual government has turned into a dictatorship.

...Ooh, that Trump!

 

[Stevicus]

Inspired by: http://www.profootballweekly.com/20...d-penalty-for-kneeling-before-anthem/a3ss9ts/

Players found on the field kneeling during the national anthem their team may be subjected to a 15-yard penalty. What is sad is this will only create a polarizing environment for professional athletes who feel the need to protest and those who don't. Sad that in Trump's America we can move goal posts when it comes to free speech. I find that free speech is appropriate depending on who you are politically, and racially. For example, I do not see free speech proponents defend NFL players but I do see them come out in defense of the Charlottesville protests. Regardless of the venue of protests, if we're to defend liberty it must not be done by convenience, but by equity.

From what I understand is that free speech is only allowed on public property, and even then it's limited to some degree. If I recall correctly, in Charlottesville they had to apply for a permit in order to hold a demonstration in a public park. (In hindsight, it probably would have been better had that permit not been granted.) For private property, it's strictly up to the property owner as to what's allowed.

So, if there's no actual place where free speech can be truly exercised, then I guess it's kind of pointless to even have it. But at least we can say we have "free speech," for whatever that's worth.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think they should be allowed... I just think there may be better ways to express themselves
However there is more to be gained in allowing expression of different points of view

What better platform than on national television where millions of people are watching? I think the players have accomplished that and now at dinner tables people are talking about the issue whether people are for, or against it.

 

[Revoltingest]

While football players are athletes, their primary function is to entertain.
They're like pro wrestlers in this regard. Wrestlers differ only in that
their performances are scripted, while footballers are proscribed, ie,
prohibited from behaving in a fashion which harms the business.

It's not a loss of liberty, but rather a financially justifiable condition
of employment. Wanna take their massive paycheck, & perform in
their venue, then one must dance to their tune while on the job.
On their own time they have much more freedom, eg, political
demonstration.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That's fine. So, why can't an Alabama football team don the Confederate flag saluting it? Isn't that free speech?

You're either part of Old Glory or you're not. The Flag didn't do anything, so why punish IT?

"Shortly after surrendering the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia in April 1865, Lee became president of a war-torn school known then only as Washington College. The same day he took office, he took an oath to “henceforth” support the U.S. Constitution. He advised fellow former Confederates to do the same."

See: Even Robert E. Lee Wanted the Confederate Flag Gone

Robert E. Lee said:

"My pride is that that flag shall not set between contending brothers; and that, when it shall no longer be the common flag of the country, it shall be folded up and laid away like a vesture no longer used."

 

[David1967]

So you think it's okay for anyone to show up at their jobs and protest anything that they wish? You realize how much these guys are getting paid to entertain us in this country? They want to protest then do it on their own time and their own dime.

I wish there was a triple winner rating I could give you on this.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

So you think it's okay for anyone to show up at their jobs and protest anything that they wish? You realize how much these guys are getting paid to entertain us in this country? They want to protest then do it on their own time and their own dime.

Who are you to tell someone what to do with their time? You're certainly not God. You're flesh and bone that breathes oxygen as they do. You cannot dictate anything for them no more than the boy that sells popcorn. People protest all the time and unions support workers wo protest certain work conditions and/or other social issues.

See:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/...yers-kneeling-national-anthem-labor-laws.html

 

[David1967]

And here I was hoping this debacle was over with. Just goes to show how much "free speech" means to those harping on about it the loudest. They want to scream "PC" when they get chastised for saying hateful things, but eagerly politicize the military as a tool to demand the silence of free speech when someone doesn't sport a red, white, and blue boner when it comes to nationalism.

I think the issue here is the fact that the players are employees getting paid obscene amounts of money to play ball, not make political statements. I've no problem with them protesting whatever beef they have. But as BSM1 said , on their own time and dime. I believe personally that if a person is on the job he should be doing what he is being paid to do. IMHO of course.

 

[David1967]

Who are you to tell someone what to do with their time? You're certainly not God. You're flesh and bone that breathes oxygen as they do. You cannot dictate anything for them no more than the boy that sells popcorn. People protest all the time and unions support workers wo protest certain work conditions and/or other social issues.

See:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/12/...yers-kneeling-national-anthem-labor-laws.html

You are correct. Unions can support or even force protests involving work conditions. But these NFL clowns are not doing that. When they show up for work collecting their millions, it is not "their time", it is their employers time. I for one would never consider hiring someone who considered the time I was paying him a wage 'his time'.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think the issue here is the fact that the players are employees getting paid obscene amounts of money to play ball, not make political statements.

They certainly aren't paid to stand for the national anthem.

 

[David1967]

Then keep them all in the locker room. That is the way it was done not too long ago. They would play the national anthem, and then the teams would run out of the locker rooms onto the field. But then they decided to put the players on display, forcing them to make a patriotic political statement. And that is how we got here.

I suppose they could compromise and treat it
like a religious thing. For instance, the Jehovah's witnesses do not salute or say the pledge of allegiance. (Correct me if I'm wrong). So if they have a problem with the national anthem why not let them sit it out in the locker room?