This is where liberty dies

[Thermos aquaticus]

Black people are nearly 5 times more likely to commit murder than white people.
Is it really a surprise that cops, including black ones, treat them differently?
Do you wonder about that?

Like i said, I don't really want to derail the thread with a discussion about the merits of BLM. Only that having a cause doesn't give you rights and negate the rights of other people.
Tom

I don't see how kneeling during the national anthem takes away the rights of others.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Who ever said that?
The fact that folks like Kaep make so much money gives them tons more ability to voice their moral beliefs.
Tom

Post #4:
So you think it's okay for anyone to show up at their jobs and protest anything that they wish? You realize how much these guys are getting paid to entertain us in this country? They want to protest then do it on their own time and their own dime.

Post #13:
Wanna take their massive paycheck, & perform in
their venue, then one must dance to their tune while on the job.

Post #17:
I think the issue here is the fact that the players are employees getting paid obscene amounts of money to play ball, not make political statements.

 

[Stevicus]

Black people are nearly 5 times more likely to commit murder than white people.
Is it really a surprise that cops, including black ones, treat them differently?
Do you wonder about that?

I think might be a variety of factors at work here, but considering the size of the black population in the US and the total number of murders, it still seems a pretty slim chance that any random black dude on the street is a murderer.

I do wonder why cops get so worked up over apparently trivial violations.

Like i said, I don't really want to derail the thread with a discussion about the merits of BLM. Only that having a cause doesn't give you rights and negate the rights of other people.
Tom

I agree on this point. No one's rights should be negated.

 

[columbus]

I don't see how kneeling during the national anthem takes away the rights of others.

The employee's management doesn't seem to want them to do so. The management does have the right to control political messages delivered by employees at work and wearing company uniforms.

Part of the problem I am having discussing this is that I really don't care about the issue. I think that BLM will result in more social divisiveness and more deaths of young black men. But they have the Constitutional right to argue in favor of that.

Just not at work. Not if their employer says to stop doing that at work.
Tom

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

The employee's management doesn't seem to want them to do so. The management does have the right to control political messages delivered by employees at work and wearing company uniforms.

Part of the problem I am having discussing this is that I really don't care about the issue. I think that BLM will result in more social divisiveness and more deaths of young black men. But they have the Constitutional right to argue in favor of that.

Just not at work. Not if their employer says to stop doing that at work.
Tom

People do have the constitutional right to free speech at work, with a few exceptions like the Hatch Act. Employers also have the right to fire workers because of the image they put forward during their work hours.

The real question is the image the NFL wants to put forward. Do they want to be seen as a company that is so inflexible that they feel it necessary to punish their employees for their body positions during a song?

 

[columbus]

I think might be a variety of factors at work here, but considering the size of the black population in the US and the total number of murders, it still seems a pretty slim chance that any random black dude on the street is a murderer.

We are not really talking about all black people.
In the USA,
Black people are rather more violent than others. Men are rather more violent than women. Young people are rather more violent than older folks.

So, if you put all these demographics together in one person human beings (who are programmed to categorize) are going to make assumptions about him. And cops are human beings.
Pretending that the problem is cops, and not young black men, is to miss the point. And that means that you are unlikely to have a solution.
Tom

 

[Shad]

Ratings for all TV programming are dropping, the NFL is dropping less than the market average though (i.e. it's performing better than expected), in addition the NFL is still by far the most popular thing on US TV with 7 of the top 10 TV events and 37 of the top 50 being NFL games.

It is dropping more than expected

Attendances last year were the 4th highest of the last decade

Attendance isn't tracked like you think. Many teams track sales not butts in the seats, ticket distribution not ticks at the gate. So forgive me when a team claims it is sold out and they have empty seats all over the place. The NFL actually suggested that in a memo back in '05.

They have just signed record breaking TV deals, including with Fox whose news channel might say the league is in decline, but their money men certainly aren't listening.

The old deal with NBC ended in 2017. A new deal was going to happen anyways. It isn't like the league is dead. The deal is part of Fox new

A middling franchise like the Panthers just sold for over $2 billion

1 billion below owner expectations and does not represent actual value but what the owners and buyer agreed upon.

Money talks, and the NFL are making more of it than ever, with their profits last year being $1 billion higher than the previous year.

The NFL is still profitable when a major part of it's expenses are covered by tax payers such as stadiums.

Yet after that post here we are with a new rule over supposedly a non-issue.

 

[columbus]

The real question is the image the NFL wants to put forward.

I don't care about the NFL. They can do whatever they want to, I still won't watch.
What about BLM? They disrupt other people quite commonly. From shutting down the Sanders rally to the Toronto Pride Parade to the snipers in Dallas to the looting parties they have organised.
Why isn't their image a problem?
Tom

 

[Shad]

What was gained by that national attention?

A book deal and a lawsuit

 

[Shad]

You do know that Kaepernic protested against racism. Neither patriotism nor free speech was his issue.

And the police otherwise he wouldn't wear pigs as cops on his socks

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I don't care about the NFL. They can do whatever they want to, I still won't watch.

Then it makes me wonder why you are in a thread about the NFL. The lady doth protest too much methinks, as Shakespeare wrote.

What about BLM? They disrupt other people quite commonly. From shutting down the Sanders rally to the Toronto Pride Parade to the snipers in Dallas to the looting parties they have organised.
Why isn't their image a problem?
Tom

BLM isn't trying to sell a product or make a profit, so I'm not sure what you are driving at. I think the BLM movement is quite aware that they will not be looked at favorably by a segment of the population, but that is true of almost every protest.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

A book deal and a lawsuit

Real progress.

 

[Shad]

Real progress.

His actions only result in a ticket to unemployment.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Imagine that you owned a company which provided entertainment.
And that one of your workers wanted to display his support for the
Confederacy by displaying the Stars & Bars before every performance.
Would you have the right to prevent this if it hurt your business?
Or must you provide a political platform, no matter what the cost?

This made me giggle a bit. Can you imagine an NFL player (presumably white) who trots out the Stars and Bars during the pre-game festivities, and then has to go into the game? I would worry for his health.

 

[Augustus]

It is dropping more than expected

Not more than average TV viewership decline.

Also factor in:
a) an uninspiring schedule in many weeks due to a lot of poor teams (the Bills were awful and made the playoffs)
b) viewer fatigue from increased numbers of matches available for watching on TV/online
c) The NFL's own streaming service
d) the ease of illegal streaming

Attendance isn't tracked like you think. Many teams track sales not butts in the seats, ticket distribution not ticks at the gate. So forgive me when a team claims it is sold out and they have empty seats all over the place. The NFL actually suggested that in a memo back in '05.

It's tracked the same as it was in previous seasons.

Half empty stadiums are usually caused by the team sucking, get them on a potential Super Bowl run and they will soon be full.

I support the Browns and watched all 16 of their losses last season so I know how they feel

1 billion below owner expectations and does not represent actual value but what the owners and buyer agreed upon.

$1b below the owners pipe dream. Maybe if they were the Giants he could get that.

Significantly higher than the club was valued by Forbes though, and they didn't even accept the highest bid.

Also if anything damages a clubs long term valuation it's concussions/CTE rather than some flash in the pan dispute.

The NFL is still profitable when a major part of it's expenses are covered by tax payers such as stadiums.

Still profitable without that. That's why franchise values have doubled in a handful of years.

Some owners are just immoral and avaricious ****s.

 

[BSM1]

Making what case? I'm saying you can't fire someone for discrimination but again we are getting off topic. All I'm saying is you cannot be that stupid to think you can fire someone just to fire them.

And you, sir, must be just as stupid to think otherwise. I live in a right to work state (thankfully) and I can fire you at will with absolutely no excuse or reason. Obviously your world is a little narrower than mine. I would suggest that you place all your anger and righteous indignation to something more constructive than looking for that white boogie man under your bed.

 

[Phantasman]

In the 1950's Congress decreed that all Americans must pledge allegiance to a Nation Under God or shut up.

In the 1950's Sen. Joe McCarthy led a witch hunt against "commies" that destroyed the lives of many people.

In the 1950's and 1960's black men were lynched for looking at a white woman. Black people rode in the backs of buses and were denied service at many establishments.

In the 1950's and 1960's homosexuals were treated as dirt.

In the 1950's and 1960's Lucy and Desi had to sleep in separate beds on TV.

In the 1950's and 1960's women were never pregnant, they were in a family way.



That's the 1950's and 1960's that you so revere.

We came from a time that had blinders on. I'm glad those days are gone.

Tunnel vision.

I had black friends no different than white friends, A homosexual tried to aggressively hit on me more than once as a 16 YO, my mom and dad slept in one bed as most of my friends parents did, premarital sex was not as reckless producing illegitimate fatherless children, the pledge is something we understood as good as well as God. No guns at school, families were planned for, no AIDs, people felt safer, Halloween candy from homes were safe, no safety seals on food and drugs, many simple ailment reliefs could be purchased from a druggist like Paregoric, identity theft was non existent, government debt wasn't an issue, cartoons were funny. etc.

Unless you were there at the time, you cannot see the difference. Todays children are facing a much more fearful world as it's evils are much more prevalent than the 50s and 60s as perpetrators are so much closer.

My view, of course.

 

[BSM1]

You mean like this?

What flag?

 

[Revoltingest]

What flag?

I was not thinking the same thing.

 

[Phantasman]

At first, Kaepernick sat during the national anthem, and this is the reason he gave:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ck-explains-why-he-sat-during-national-anthem

At the same time, Kaepernick had a lot of respect for the men and women in uniform. Kaepernick had a discussion with a veteran and they both decided that he could kneel so that he could honor the soldiers who fight for his freedoms while also protesting the way that minorities are treated. Read more here:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/



That's what protests are.



Do you also remember segregation during the 50's and 60's?

Segregation didn't exist in Ft Lauderdale where I grew up.

But there were black gangs as well as white gangs. I actually feared both. But the worst case was getting beat up, not killed.

Racism is as alive today as ever. The racists are both black and white. I don't see that ending any time soon because American politics keep it alive. Even as the elite blacks have attained successful positions in this country (Congress, President, multimillionaire status, business, etc.) they still drag their racism narratives with them.

Blacks wanted to achieve the same as whites which was MLK message. That time has never been greater for them than now. I like that especially for my friends I grew up with. If a black person today isn't making it, it's because they choose not to. There are plenty of successful black men and women who have success, making more than I and most white Americans.

As a nation, our acts should be to raise Americans, all of them. Dividing them into racial groups is the true racism. Skin color is being used as an excuse for failures, when it's clear that that is not the case. It's the mindset.