This is where liberty dies

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Anything that disrespects the flag and country is not respectful. Your arguement is the one that is invalid. Maybe being free from Christianity has taken away your sense of respect.

Anything that disrespects the flag and country is not respectful. Your arguement is the one that is invalid. Maybe being free from Christianity has taken away your sense of respect.

He's free FORM Christianity, not free FROM Christianity. That said, it seems a perfectly respectful form of protest to me. How about you tell us what would, in you esteemed opinion, constitute a respectful protest?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Oh, I quite agree. What gets really intriguing is when you try to work out just how contrived and intentional the stealing was. Did it just happen naturally, as the issue was dumbed down and spread as third hand sound bites? Or did someone somewhere intentionally sit down and work out the best way to discredit and subvert the protest and actively make it about "respecting the flag/troops/apple pie/jingoistic touchstone du jour"?

I think it is natural. Look at post 228. You will see a fine example of this type of hijacking.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

He's free FORM Christianity, not free FROM Christianity. That said, it seems a perfectly respectful form of protest to me. How about you tell us what would, in you esteemed opinion, constitute a respectful protest?

Here is a better idea. Why not go to North Korea and ask what is a respectful protest? Do your protest in the locker room or out on the street or in front of City Hall. But when the National Anthem is being played, show some respect or leave the scene. Respect means standing quietly and at least acting like you know what it means to live in a place where you can protest at all. Take a knee in North Korea and it will be the last time you do.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

He's free FORM Christianity, not free FROM Christianity. That said, it seems a perfectly respectful form of protest to me. How about you tell us what would, in you esteemed opinion, constitute a respectful protest?

AS a Catholic, how would you like it if someone went to the Vatican and stomped on a Vatican flag and lifted a finger as the Pope passed by? Respectful?

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Here is a better idea. Why not go to North Korea and ask what is a respectful protest? Do your protest in the locker room or out on the street or in front of City Hall. But when the National Anthem is being played, show some respect or leave the scene. Respect means standing quietly and at least acting like you know what it means to live in a place where you can protest at all. Take a knee in North Korea and it will be the last time you do.

Wow, you don't realize the irony in that statement.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

AS a Catholic, how would you like it if someone went to the Vatican and stomped on a Vatican flag and lifted a finger as the Pope passed by? Respectful?

That is not equal to silently taking a knee. Try again.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I beg to differ. Let's leave out the flag stomping. Is silently raising a finger to the Pope a respectful protest? How about silently taking a communion wafer and then throwing it away? Anything that differs from standard procedures can be disrespectful.

 

[columbus]

Then it makes me wonder why you are in a thread about the NFL. The lady doth protest too much methinks, as Shakespeare wrote.

Because the culture of victimhood and entitlement is far more dangerous to society than the cops.

BLM isn't trying to sell a product or make a profit, so I'm not sure what you are driving at. I think the BLM movement is quite aware that they will not be looked at favorably by a segment of the population, but that is true of almost every protest.

Oh yes, BLM is selling a product. It's not tangible or obvious. But I do think that they are selling racism and victimhood and entitlement.

That's why I don't look at them favorably.
And I believe that the results of their campaign will include more young black men dying violently.

Tom

 

[columbus]

That is not equal to silently taking a knee. Try again.

And taking a knee on the Capitol building steps at a rally, or at home during a press conference, is not equal to doing it at work.
Tom

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Because the culture of victimhood and entitlement is far more dangerous to society than the cops.

I agree, but I don't think we are seeing this the same way. There are parts of society who think they are entitled to tell others how they will behave when a certain song is being sung, and the feel victimized if people even dare to disagree with them.

Oh yes, BLM is selling a product. It's not tangible or obvious. But I do think that they are selling racism and victimhood and entitlement.

Those aren't products.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Here is a better idea. Why not go to North Korea and ask what is a respectful protest? Do your protest in the locker room or out on the street or in front of City Hall. But when the National Anthem is being played, show some respect or leave the scene. Respect means standing quietly and at least acting like you know what it means to live in a place where you can protest at all. Take a knee in North Korea and it will be the last time you do.

Couldn't answer the question, huh? Don't worry, I'm sure no one noticed your poor attempt at deflection.

So North Korea is the standard by which you judge limits of free speech, huh? Good to know.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Because the culture of victimhood and entitlement is far more dangerous to society than the cops.


Oh yes, BLM is selling a product. It's not tangible or obvious. But I do think that they are selling racism and victimhood and entitlement.

That's why I don't look at them favorably.
And I believe that the results of their campaign will include more young black men dying violently.

Tom

How many people have been wrongfully killed by victimhood or entitlement?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

AS a Catholic, how would you like it if someone went to the Vatican and stomped on a Vatican flag and lifted a finger as the Pope passed by? Respectful?

Is that really an apt comparison, do you think? Honestly?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Is that really an apt comparison, do you think? Honestly?

All you seem to do is ask questions. If you have serious descriptions of acceptable and unacceptable behavior then please tell us. People who have respect for a country do not disrespect the flag or anthem by trying to be different from what others consider respectful. You can do anything you want in your own house or out on the street but when in a public place there are standards of behavior. Again, as a Catholic, would you consider it disrespectful for someone to stand silently and hold up a sign while others are kneeling and praying. I would call it disrespectful. Now answer with another question because you have no answer.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

People who have respect for a country do not disrespect the flag or anthem by trying to be different from what others consider respectful.

That's just it. Some people have lost respect for law enforcement because of the way they treat their fellow citizens.

You can do anything you want in your own house or out on the street but when in a public place there are standards of behavior.

There is also the right to protest.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

A protest can be respectful. See previous post. Does a person have a right to silently protest in a church service? Say a man goes in and when everyone kneels and starts to pray, he takes off his coat and is wearing only a bathing suit. He stands silently and holds up a sign saying the Pope sucks> Is that respectful? Do the church members have a right to put him out or call the police? He is peacefully protesting but is being disrespectfulm in my opinion. He is not following normally recognized behavior. Normal behavior is to stand when the national anthem is played. It is not respectful to kneel or sit and people have the right to put him out just like they have the right to put out the church protester. You can protest but you can also show respect.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

All you seem to do is ask questions. If you have serious descriptions of acceptable and unacceptable behavior then please tell us. People who have respect for a country do not disrespect the flag or anthem by trying to be different from what others consider respectful. You can do anything you want in your own house or out on the street but when in a public place there are standards of behavior. Again, as a Catholic, would you consider it disrespectful for someone to stand silently and hold up a sign while others are kneeling and praying. I would call it disrespectful. Now answer with another question because you have no answer.

You haven't answered my questions, but I have already answered yours. Kneeling during an anthem seems a perfectly respectful form of protest to me. As a Catholic, since that seems to be an issue for you, I wouldn't have a problem with someone silently holding a sign while people are praying, assuming they are behaving legally.

So, care to answer my first question? What form of protest WOULD you find respectful, in the relevant scenario? Or would you like to just admit that you'd complain against any form of protest, no matter what?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

A protest can be respectful. See previous post. Does a person have a right to silently protest in a church service? Say a man goes in and when everyone kneels and starts to pray, he takes off his coat and is wearing only a bathing suit. He stands silently and holds up a sign saying the Pope sucks> Is that respectful? Do the church members have a right to put him out or call the police? He is peacefully protesting but is being disrespectfulm in my opinion. He is not following normally recognized behavior. Normal behavior is to stand when the national anthem is played. It is not respectful to kneel or sit and people have the right to put him out just like they have the right to put out the church protester. You can protest but you can also show respect.

Churches are private property. You don't have a right to protest on private property if the owner wants you to leave. There would be nothing wrong with conducting such a protest outside the church, though, indeed, such things happen all the time. Now, you say respectful protest is possible, I'm still waiting for you to describe what form you think it should take?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Churches are private property. You don't have a right to protest on private property if the owner wants you to leave. There would be nothing wrong with conducting such a protest outside the church, though, indeed, such things happen all the time. Now, you say respectful protest is possible, I'm still waiting for you to describe what form you think it should take?

At last. You have just made my point. Churches are private property and protests can be limited. But ball parks are also private property. If the team owners do not want protests then they have the right to put protesters out. And what form of protest would be acceptable? Stay in the locker room until after the anthem and then come out with a sign describing your reason for protesting.Or protest on the street just like you suggest in the church example Question answered.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

At last. You have just made my point. Churches are private property and protests can be limited. But ball parks are also private property. If the team owners do not want protests then they have the right to put protesters out. And what form of protest would be acceptable? Stay in the locker room until after the anthem and then come out with a sign describing your reason for protesting.Or protest on the street just like you suggest in the church example Question answered.

IF the team owners don't want protests... how do the team owners feel, though?